[Chalnoth]

Originally Posted by rpg.314

I am gonna stir the DP-heavy pot once again. So far, I had thought that DP was a minuscule overhead at best and minor at worst. However, prima facie, the int alu is useless for graphics. And a 32b multiplier is ~40% larger than a 27b multiplier. I am wondering whether it is of any use (apart from address generation) in graphics/DXCS? If not, then it seems to be a pretty big investment for no apparent return.

So, do you have a use case for INT32 mul in graphics/DXCS?

It's conceivable that DP and 32-bit integer are useful for non-graphics processing, such as PhysX.

[Jawed]

Byte-wise addressing, a feature of UAVs, doesn't go very far with 24-bit addresses. Bit-shift doesn't work when the row pitch isn't a power of 2, without writing your own multiplier based upon bit-shifts etc.

Jawed

[FenderBender]

Originally Posted by rpg.314

Ithe int alu is useless for graphics. And a 32b multiplier is ~40% larger than a 27b multiplier....If not, then it seems to be a pretty big investment for no apparent return.

Is it really a big investment? What percentage of the die is used for integer ALUs? Like DP, it may be pretty minor transistor expense to add the wider int multipliers. (This doesn't address your actual question about the use of int32 in graphics, though...)

[Jawed]

Originally Posted by FenderBender

Is it really a big investment? What percentage of the die is used for integer ALUs? Like DP, it may be pretty minor transistor expense to add the wider int multipliers. (This doesn't address your actual question about the use of int32 in graphics, though...)

NVidia could have lowered the investment by putting MUL32 in the special function ALU, which has considerably lower throughput.

Then NVidia would be stuck without an option for high-performance DP architecture.

Jawed

[ZerazaX]

Board Power: < 300W

[r9800pro]

Originally Posted by ZerazaX

Board Power: < 300W

Probably fake

It should be Confidential not Confdential

[Ailuros]

I'm afraid TDP values are as exaggerated as early price estimates for the 480.

[Silus]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

I'm afraid TDP values are as exaggerated as early price estimates for the 480.

Done by the usual suspects

Let's see if that applies to the never-ending speculation on die-size too! And performance as well of course.

Hopefully we get some real game benchmarks in the next few days.

[Picao84]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

I'm afraid TDP values are as exaggerated as early price estimates for the 480.

What do you mean by that? Exaggerated in what sence? The real ones (both TDP and price) are lower or higher?

[Psycho]

edit: too late
I guess they wouldn't write < 300 if it was <275.

[neliz]

So, it's 512 CC now again. despite Fudo's estimates earlier this week

[Picao84]

Originally Posted by neliz

So, it's 512 CC now again. despite Fudo's estimates earlier this week

ROFL. nVIDIA must have been doing a disinfo campaign then xD

[Lonbjerg]

Originally Posted by Picao84

ROFL. nVIDIA must have been doing a disinfo campaign then xD

People are just getting really frantic this time...I "blame" NVIDIA...for keeping the cards/information so tight and firm this time around.

The rumoursites must be going out of their minds...and making up a lot of stuff in deperation.

This is really "silly season" for full effect

[Picao84]

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

People are just getting really frantic this time...I "blame" NVIDIA...for keeping the cards/information so tight and firm this time around.

The rumoursites must be going out of their minds...and making up a lot of stuff in deperation.

This is really "silly season" for full effect

I dont know really if its rumour sites. nVIDIA might be baiting people with info, to see where the leaks come from

[Lonbjerg]

Originally Posted by Picao84

I dont know really if its rumour sites. nVIDIA might be baiting people with info, to see where the leaks come from

Agredd, it seems like NVIDIA really is doing everything (and then some) this launch...I SO look forward to the 27th when we can talk about facts, not FUD/misinformation...

[neliz]

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

Agredd, it seems like NVIDIA really is doing everything (and then some) this launch...I SO look forward to the 27th when we can talk about facts, not FUD/misinformation...

TDP for the 512CC part is 295W.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by Chalnoth

It's conceivable that DP and 32-bit integer are useful for non-graphics processing, such as PhysX.

Naah, spfp rules in that domain.

[Lonbjerg]

Originally Posted by neliz

TDP for the 512CC part is 295W.

TDP is actually one thing I couldn't care less about.
Inbetween my i7(at 3.5Ghz), 12GB RAM, 2 x 21" CRT's, 7.1 soundsetup ect....I couldn't care less about TDP, "performance/watt" ect...it's high end....like talking about miles per gallon in F1 racing: meh!

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by Jawed

Byte-wise addressing, a feature of UAVs, doesn't go very far with 24-bit addresses. Bit-shift doesn't work when the row pitch isn't a power of 2, without writing your own multiplier based upon bit-shifts etc.

Jawed

What is the upper limit of UAVs in terms of size? Textures in d3d are 16k x 16k, so my guess is somewhere in the region of 28 bits for addressing.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by FenderBender

Is it really a big investment? What percentage of the die is used for integer ALUs? Like DP, it may be pretty minor transistor expense to add the wider int multipliers. (This doesn't address your actual question about the use of int32 in graphics, though...)

SPFP alu's are *assuredly* a big fraction of SM area in G80 and GT200. Fermi adds equal no. of ALU's, each of which is ~40% larger (this neglects the area overhead of rounding modes in spfp alu's).

[Picao84]

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

TDP is actually one thing I couldn't care less about.
Inbetween my i7(at 3.5Ghz), 12GB RAM, 2 x 21" CRT's, 7.1 soundsetup ect....I couldn't care less about TDP, "performance/watt" ect...it's high end....like talking about miles per gallon in F1 racing: meh!

Well it depends on what kind of performance you can get from those 295W no?

For me, its all good, as I dont buy neither ATI or nVIDIA xD. I enjoy the race though

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

TDP is actually one thing I couldn't care less about.

However, if 295w results in marginally better performance than a 5870 then it's still a problem in general. Those extra billion transistors need to count for something.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by Jawed

Byte-wise addressing, a feature of UAVs, doesn't go very far with 24-bit addresses. Bit-shift doesn't work when the row pitch isn't a power of 2, without writing your own multiplier based upon bit-shifts etc.

Jawed

Also, even if the address needs 32b mul for address generation, it sure as hell doesn't need it @full speed. Synthesized 32b mul, as in g80/gt200 or a 1/5th ratio as in evergreen seems quite fine considering it's frequency of occurrence .

[Lonbjerg]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

However, if 295w results in marginally better performance than a 5870 then it's still a problem in general. Those extra billion transistors need to count for something.

Well...I really don't care.
The bottomline performance is where I look.

Like I said...this is F1 racing class...not Toyota Prius class.
Just turning on my amplifier for my speakers cost me 50-60 Watt...but I don't care.

If it was a laptop I would care..but high end gaming....don't care about watt, TDP...or CO2

[A.L.M.]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

I'm afraid TDP values are as exaggerated as early price estimates for the 480.

If it was even 290W, they would have said <295W.
If it's < 300W, you can be sure that 295W<=GTX480 TDP<=300W.

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

TDP is actually one thing I couldn't care less about.
Inbetween my i7(at 3.5Ghz), 12GB RAM, 2 x 21" CRT's, 7.1 soundsetup ect....I couldn't care less about TDP, "performance/watt" ect...it's high end....like talking about miles per gallon in F1 racing: meh!

Well, as long as you get enough performance, you could be right. But, as the supposed GTX480 MSRP price may suggest, there are some chances that you could get a good deal of additional performance @ the same TDP by buying an HD5970, which is something quite peculiar, given that we are talking about a dual versus a single card. I actually think that this could be the first time in which a dual has a better perf/watt ratio than a single card of the same generation...