[AzBat]

Now that the Zune HD is officially available today, I figured it would be nice to have a seperate thread. It's kind of wierd how they marketed the device(or lack thereof). So with today we finally have some new details about the Xbox integration & apps.

First, the press release:

http://www.zune.net/en-us/press/2009...zunelaunch.htm

The new info collected from that is this...

Apps

Zune HD also features new casual games and non-gaming functionality such as a calculator and an MSN Weather application. Later this year, Zune plans to release free applications such as Twitter for Zune and Facebook for Zune, in addition to fun 3-D games such as “Project Gotham Racing: Ferrari Edition,” “Vans Sk8: Pool Service” and “Audiosurf™ Tilt.” Games can be added to Zune HD via Zune Marketplace over the Wi-Fi connection or when connected to the Zune PC software.

Xbox

Later this fall, Zune video will expand to nearly 20 million Xbox LIVE users, combining the Zune and Xbox video stores so consumers have access to more content provided by Zune. With unified video catalogs on Zune and Xbox LIVE, customers will have the ability to play purchased movies and TV shows across Xbox, the PC and Zune HD. Zune will also be introducing new technology enhancements in Xbox LIVE, providing a choice to download or instantly stream HD video in full 1080p with 5.1 surround sound. In addition, the integrated Zune video service will be rolled out later this fall to 17 international markets: Canada, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

I tried getting more info from the official site, but looks like they're having some issues. If anybody gets more new details please post them.

I was able to find this little interview with a few little gems about apps & games...

Q: What's happening with apps?

A: In the marketplace you'll see an apps tab on the device and in the software.

Last year our apps were games. We introduced a bundle of games in the update, which was convenient but also really painful because the download was really big. So we stripped those out. Now they're a side-load experience through the software in the marketplace or on the device.

When it comes to apps on Zune on the 15th what you'll see is primarily games. We're refreshing a lot of the games to take advantage of the multitouch. Casual games. plus a couple of apps like the weather app and calculator. Plus we're building a Twitter (app), a Facebook (app) and a bunch of 3D games like "Project Gotham Racing" that will come out in November.

All of our apps are free ... and it's a managed solution right now, so we're building these apps or working with third parties to build these apps and provide them to our customers for free.

Q: Will it open up for third-party app developers?

A: It's hard to say right now. If you look around the company at other places where things like this are important, Windows Mobile rises to the top. They have devices which are always connected, which make applications like maps really cool and important.

On a sometimes-connected device, what people are using them for are games. So what we didn't want to do was build two parallel app store experiences that didn't work together.

Right now our product roadmaps didn't line up perfectly for us to snap to what they're doing or vice versa. That being said, we know people want things like this on their devices so we're going to build them ourselves, they're going to be super high-quality, and they're going to be free.

Down the road if there's a way we can work with Windows Mobile or another group inside the company that's building an app store and take advantage of that, that's something we'll look into.

Q: Are you working with game publishers to get titles on Zune?

A: On a case-by-case basis. It's not really come one, come all.

Q: Will "Project Gotham" on the Zune work with the Xbox -- so the device keeps track of your status on the console or something?

A: Not at this point, no. It will be just a standalone experience on the device.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ne_clarif.html

Anybody got one yet to tell us how good or bad it is? I'd loved to see a review.

Tommy McClain

[Tchock]

Audiosurf. Buy.

AS is my most played PC game (and damn, I'm good at it so ) and Zune 4.0 is SEXY.

[Richard]

Finally. Installing Zune 4.0 in a couple of minutes. Shame Microsoft still doesn't have international markets as a strategic option in the Zune dpt.

[Ike Turner]

I'm blaming MS's totally messed mobile strategy and Windows Mobile 7 delay for the lack of third-party appstore. Now the ZuneHD will have to wait t'ill WM7 phones are out (Tegra/SnapDragon/OMAP3430 phones) to get access to the Windows MarketPlace for Mobile.

[AzBat]

Here are a few observations from Cnet...

Cool - Quickplay, Smart DJ
No Cool - No more Zune-to-Zune sharing, lack of a competitive app store

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10352637-27.html

Tommy McClain

[AzBat]

Originally Posted by Ike Turner

I'm blaming MS's totally messed mobile strategy and Windows Mobile 7 delay for the lack of third-party appstore. Now the ZuneHD will have to wait t'ill WM7 phones are out (Tegra/SnapDragon/OMAP3430 phones) to get access to the Windows MarketPlace for Mobile.

Agreed. Hopefully they will announce some details regarding how XNA fits with the Zune HD. Until then at least the Zune is getting some free games.

Tommy McClain

[AzBat]

Here's small review of their purchasing & installation of the device. Has a few photos comparing the size to an iPhone too. Didn't realize it was that small. Also, doesn't sound like the launch went so well either.

http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets...ions-20090915/

Tommy McClain

[Richard]

Hmm... let me see if I understood him correctly:

a) The guy visits one BestBuy, gets your average CE store employee ignorance and blames Microsoft.
b) BB's system wasn't ready to scan a device and he blames the manufacturer instead of BB's store manager.
c) He obviously never tried most other CE devices with batteries that also power on when charging for the first time even though the docs instruct customers only to use such devices after they've been fully charged.
d) He mentions how the device comes with the old software (he means firmware here BTW) and yet is still surprised the device won't show the browser, which is new until he syncs (i.e. updates firmware). Uncanny. CE's coming with old firmware is nothing new, again.
e) He's surprised games only show up when you sign up for a Zune account. Maybe he should read the instructions then. App store is free but only available to zune users, which he isn't until he creates an account. The reason why MS didn't include games is probably because on the old Zune version (3.1) the firmware updates alone were 90mb. That's why the new version is only 55mb, down from 135mb (even though it now includes a 20mb welcome video).
f) he had an error message during installation, I didn't. What do I win?

A handful of incidental, third-party responsability, RTFM-worthy, anecdotal issues and yet, from his sole experience, he calls the launch blown.

What did he call the iPhone launch where you couldn't even activate the phone for a day and brawls breaking out in stores? Zombie Apocalypse Now Redux?

Here's a thought: maybe he shouldn't have wasted a quarter of the article describing his trip to a store with photos instead of more information about the device, software, services, battery times, performance, visuals, etc.

[Florin]

No more squirting?

[deeFive]

i really really want to import one of these (to the uk), i think if i can get hold one after the 28th for less than £200 i will get one, i dont think i will wait for them to not come to the eu this time does any one here use a zune 3.0 player whats the sound quality like?

[AzBat]

XNA support confirmed....

XNA Game Studio Express 3.1 adds extensions to support Zune HD...

http://kotaku.com/5360100/xna-studio...hd-dev-support

• The ability to target and develop for the Zune HD media player.
• The addition of new Touch APIs to the XNA Framework for use on the Zune HD.
• The addition of new Accelerometer APIs to the XNA Framework for use on the Zune HD.

http://forums.xna.com/forums/t/38975.aspx

According to the thread it doesn't expose support for 3D or render targets. At least not yet. Still works the same as previous Zunes: just 2D

Tommy McClain

[BadTB25]

I want to get one, but I am waiting for a larger HDD.

Hopefully, there will be something announced before the end of this year.

[Mike11]

Nice translation from Gruber (Daring Fireball) regarding Zune & Third-Party App Development:

Translation From PR-Speak to English of Zune Marketing Manager Brian Seitz’s Response to the Question of Whether the Zune Will ‘Open Up for Third-Party App Developers’
Zune marketing manager Brian Seitz:

Translation:

No, because our mobile strategy is a convoluted mess.

Is there an in-depth Zune HD review yet? I'm also interested in a link to an in-depth comparison between the features that the Zune HD 32GB and the iPod touch 32GB have in common (seems to me everyone is more concentrating on what one gadget can and the other one can't do in their reviews).

[Tchock]

lol Daring Fireball. During 9/9/09 when the v3 iPod Touches did not have a camera he tried his best to spam tons of links to cover it up. Just another plant who got big because of a few sources.

WM7 and the Zune could be using the same underlying CE (6?) layer, and such are mostly inter-operable. But as a PR guy you can't really comment on future products, can you? Leaving the surprise to 7?

[Mike11]

Originally Posted by Tchock

lol Daring Fireball. During 9/9/09 when the v3 iPod Touches did not have a camera he tried his best to spam tons of links to cover it up. Just another plant who got big because of a few sources.

WM7 and the Zune could be using the same underlying CE (6?) layer, and such are mostly inter-operable. But as a PR guy you can't really comment on future products, can you? Leaving the surprise to 7?

I'm pretty sure real third-party apps will come at some point. But if Zune has to wait until WM7 is ready then Microsoft really has a problem (if they want more than the 1-2% market share they have right now). It's not like WM7 is just a few weeks or months away, if you could buy a WM7 device before the next iPhone or even iPod touch comes out I would be really surprised. Let's just hope that Zune get's a real and competitive marketplace first and then WM7 will reuse it instead of the other way around.

[Ike Turner]

I still can't find any in-depth review of the Zune HD so far but found this Browser comparaison video (Zune HD vs Windows Mobile) http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/...ands-on-video/

[AzBat]

Originally Posted by Ike Turner

I still can't find any in-depth review of the Zune HD so far but found this Browser comparaison video (Zune HD vs Windows Mobile) http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/...ands-on-video/

Yeah, the lack of in-depth reviews is interesting. Thanks for the link.

Here's a video for the 1st XNA app done on the Zune HD...



It's basically an Etch-a-Sketch.

Tommy

[Ike Turner]

The first in-depth review is up . From the fruit fanboys @ gizmodo: http://gizmodo.com/5360126/zune-hd-r...he-pmp-evolved

[Mike11]

Another review:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-hd-review.ars

Information from that review that I haven't seen anywhere else:

Sunspider Javascript Benchmark (in Milliseconds):
Zune HD: 184,356
iPhone 3GS: 15,082
(I don't know why they didn't test it against the current iPod touch 32GB which is supposed to be a little faster than the iPhone 3GS).

And the browser can't stream internet radio.

And I didn't really realize how much of a pain in the butt the Quickplay Button is. I honestly thought until today that it can act as a volume rocker too:

Player controls also don’t exist directly on any menu page; they pop up as an overlay, generally triggered by the button on the left side of the Zune HD (tapping the screen in certain views also brings them up). But this is an absolutely crucial feature, as it’s the only way to change the volume, skip to the next song, or even stop playback. There’s no way to do any of these things without pulling the device out, pressing the button, and manipulating the screen, and it doesn’t help that the left-side button is just a bit too difficult to hit. The more I used this, the more I hated it—a bad sign for something needed so often. When you find yourself rationalizing, "Sure, this song is too loud, but I like it that way," or "Yes, I would prefer to skip ahead to the next track, but that would mean jabbing at the button," you know that usability has taken a punch to the gut.

Regarding the Gizmodo and some other reviews (sorry, rant coming, you've been warned):
All through the review they compare the Zune HD to the iPod touch, but in the end they practically say: one is a pocket computer, one is a PMP, so you can't really compare them (because Microsoft didn't intend to). And so in the conclusion they just ignore anything other than pure PMP criteria... I just don't get that. The Zune HD was clearly aimed as an iPod touch competitor (I guess Microsoft just changed it's mind last minute because they realized they couldn't compete, that's why they were so cryptic regarding apps etc.). And now the iPod touch is so out of the Zune's league that the press won't even acknowledge it's shortcomings. Even the tiny (in comparison) Palm is at least trying and offering an SDK and an App Store. But big Microsoft just gives up and we're supposed to be ok with it? That's like if the Pre wouldn't have any third party apps, no App Store or any official plan for one and the reviewers just say: it's a fantastic cell phone, best one there is. You can't hold it against Palm that they used to build things where you could install third-party apps and that there's a competitor out there for the same price where you can install apps and that this app thing is big right now. That other one is a smartphone, so you can't think negative of the Pre just because it's a normal phone... And just one more thing from the Gizmodo review: "The Zune HD is a great PMP, but it could have been a jaw-dropping, unbelievable phone." Right, it could have been a jaw-dropping, unbelievable dumbphone. Because that's what everyone wants right now.

[Ike Turner]

Originally Posted by Mike11

Regarding the Gizmodo and some other reviews (sorry, rant coming, you've been warned):
All through the review they compare the Zune HD to the iPod touch, but in the end they practically say: one is a pocket computer, one is a PMP, so you can't really compare them (because Microsoft didn't intend to). And so in the conclusion they just ignore anything other than pure PMP criteria... I just don't get that. The Zune HD was clearly aimed as an iPod touch competitor (I guess Microsoft just changed it's mind last minute because they realized they couldn't compete, that's why they were so cryptic regarding apps etc.). And now the iPod touch is so out of the Zune's league that the press won't even acknowledge it's shortcomings. Even the tiny (in comparison) Palm is at least trying and offering an SDK and an App Store. But big Microsoft just gives up and we're supposed to be ok with it? That's like if the Pre wouldn't have any third party apps, no App Store or any official plan for one and the reviewers just say: it's a fantastic cell phone, best one there is. You can't hold it against Palm that they used to build things where you could install third-party apps and that there's a competitor out there for the same price where you can install apps and that this app thing is big right now. That other one is a smartphone, so you can't think negative of the Pre just because it's a normal phone... And just one more thing from the Gizmodo review: "The Zune HD is a great PMP, but it could have been a jaw-dropping, unbelievable phone." Right, it could have been a jaw-dropping, unbelievable dumbphone. Because that's what everyone wants right now.

You probably missed the memo, but Microsoft has already sort of "announced" that the Zune as we know it is done, finished (their may be one more SKU but that's all). The Zune Hardware Team went the way of the Dodo and is now part of the Windows Mobile Hardware Team. Zune Software team is now part of the Widows Media Center division since the begining of the year. Not having a Zune HD thrid-party appstore wasn't a last minutre decision. The only problem here is that, if WM7 wasn't delayed and came out as it was originaly planned, which means now, there wouldn't have been any problem. Now MS is screwed in regards to the Zune HD because they'll have to wait for WM7 to be released to plug the Zune into the Windows Mobile Marketplace. So the only solution they found is to give away a couple of apps for free until the WinMo team stops fucking around and finishes WM7. The "WM7" phones are already here, unfortunitaly they will ship with WM6.5 (the HTC Leo : http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/...een-in-action/ )

MS just fucked up big time in regards to WinMo.

[idsn6]

Originally Posted by Ike Turner

So the only solution they found is to give away a couple of apps for free until the WinMo team stops fucking around and finishes WM7.

Well, free except that the games show ads every time they're launched.

[Ike Turner]

Originally Posted by idsn6

Well, free except that the games show ads every time they're launched.

lol yup just saw that. Not worse than the ads (which take up screen estate) in plenty of free iPhone/ipod IMO

[idsn6]

30 seconds of loading with a video commercial, versus a banner ad? I disagree heartily.
And that's just to launch Microsoft's own Chess!

[AzBat]

Originally Posted by idsn6

Well, free except that the games show ads every time they're launched.

That's just bullshit! If they had actually gave you an option to buy the apps to bypass the ads, then it would be a different story. But to make all the games free by pushing ads at the beginning, that takes the cake. Bonehead move MS. <shakes head in disgust>

The more I hear about the Zune HD the more I'm starting to think MS failed. It was a great attempt, but if this is what they think is worthy of taking my money instead of a iPod touch, then they have lost all touch with me and the rest of their customer base. There was a lot of potential there, but oh well.

Tommy McClain

[wco81]

Kind of surprising how many people are saying they'd be willing to pay to avoid ads.

Seems like they've won half the battle if they got potential customers conditioned to be willing to pay to avoid ads.