[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Scali

I think those NV-sites can generally be traced back to earlier days, when nVidia was the underdog against 3dfx and such, and nVidia was still 'cool'. It seems that the love for nVidia has cooled down considerably in the last few years.

And yet NV fansites still greatly outnumber ATI fansites, of which I can only think of 1 - Rage 3D. Although I'm sure there must be more. As well the NV fansites get far more traffic than even Rage 3D.

And just go into any forum for any game. Or go into any MMO. Ask for a graphics card recommendation. You'll be flooded by Nvidia rules, ATI sucks. And Nvidia is always twice as fast as the fastest ATI card. And Nvidia's drivers are always bullet proof while ATI drivers suck.

Add in real life (at least for my area). And over half the people that come to me for computer builds and recommendations start off with. I want the best Graphics card. When I start listing options, over half will interrupt with, "Just give me the Nvidia options, ATI sucks (or is too slow)."

I'd say Nvidia still has a considerably large diehard fan following.

Regards,
SB

[Sound_Card]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

And yet NV fansites still greatly outnumber ATI fansites, of which I can only think of 1 - Rage 3D. Although I'm sure there must be more. As well the NV fansites get far more traffic than even Rage 3D.

Regards,
SB

Rage3d is not even an ATi fan site either... The general graphics forum there half the time gets more views then the Radeon one.
Even then, Rage3d can also be traced back in the early days just like NVnews. They were both created in the 90's.

[fehu]

I was'nt expeting the "DX11 is for loser" option 0_0

[Sxotty]

Originally Posted by Scali

I have nothing against AMD, but I haven't for a moment considered buying an AMD CPU ever since Intel launched the Core2. Nothing AMD makes whets my enthusiast appetite.

The unlockable X3's whet many a persons appetites b/c they were cheap. You can be an enthusiast and not want to spend $1k on a CPU.

[Silent_Buddha]

And it seems when people talk of PhysX having something to show while Dx11 doesn't. They continue to ignore the fact that there WILL be Dx11 games this holiday season.

It just boggles the mind how so many otherwise smart people can just so easily blatantly ignore the obvious. Hell Dx11 in upcoming games has already been demo'd to the public in the press event.

Whether Dx11 enhancements are as noticeable as PhysX enhancements can certainly be argued, but the absence of such?

I'll also go out on a limb and say that Dx11 enhancements on Dx11 hardware won't tank performance nearly as much as PhysX enhancements on Nvidia cards.

Regards,
SB

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by Scali

It's a bit ironic, you have to admit...

Sure, I found it ironic as well and considered saying so but thought better of it. Pot and kettle etc, etc

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

I'd say Nvidia still has a considerably large diehard fan following.

Yeah they do, but as of late they spend a whole lot more time defending Nvidia than they do dissing ATI. Take this thread for example.....

Originally Posted by fehu

I was'nt expeting the "DX11 is for loser" option 0_0

Heh, now where did they say that?

[Florin]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

And just go into any forum for any game. Or go into any MMO. Ask for a graphics card recommendation. You'll be flooded by Nvidia rules, ATI sucks. And Nvidia is always twice as fast as the fastest ATI card. And Nvidia's drivers are always bullet proof while ATI drivers suck.

Hmm I wonder in how far that is actually a rule of thumb or more of a case of the reader's particular perspective? Because personally I get the feeling I can't turn a corner without tripping across an ATI jehova.

Maybe it's just that we actually visit completely different sites though!

Looking at the one we do share for sure though, which would be this one, I'm not really noticing much of an Nvidia bias

[Davros]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

And yet NV fansites still greatly outnumber ATI fansites, of which I can only think of 1 - Rage 3D. Although I'm sure there must be more.

Er B3D *runs away......

[Geo]

To some small but significant degree, AMD gets more support on tech forums than it might otherwise for the same reason that Linux does, or challengers to CreativeLabs back when that mattered, or etc --there is and always will be a contingent of techies who do not like concentrated power and single-choice eco-systems, so they support the littler guys more than they might otherwise.

If AMD was the 800lb gorilla in the room (and presumably they'd love to be!), they'd be on the short end of that just as quickly, and all their friendly efforts at outreach and such would quickly be characterized by the same forces as attempts at mind-control to further their evil empire.

Edit: But then, come to think of it, I'm not so sure that factor even outweighs the uninformed or barely informed tech contingent that just wants to be in the biggest in-crowd they can find with the 800lb gorillas of the world . . . so I don't know that on balance AMD gets a net advantage out of it!

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Sxotty

The unlockable X3's whet many a persons appetites b/c they were cheap. You can be an enthusiast and not want to spend $1k on a CPU.

Does Intel only make $1K CPUs?
I think this pretty much demonstrates the point I was making.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

And it seems when people talk of PhysX having something to show while Dx11 doesn't. They continue to ignore the fact that there WILL be Dx11 games this holiday season.

So you admit that DX11 has nothing to show until the holiday season.
Guess you just like to argue

[ChrisRay]

Originally Posted by Davros

Only their older cards ?

I thought about an intelligent way to respond to this. But the question in itself is just an attempt to lure out flame bait. I dont spread negative propaghanda or hate about AMD hardware. I don't have any reason or care to do so. Yes there other user group members who might do so. But they dont do so under any kind of pressure from Nvidia.

The amount of labeling that goes around here has gotten out of hand. I honestly think some people read a post. And then Label "AMD/Nvidia/Intel/" rather than listening to the arguments/discussions presented. Which always desolves into senseless bickering.

Scali was talking about what he thinks about PhysX in relationship to DX11. Is he biased? Maybe. Who cares. Alot of people on this forum are biased. But the labeling around here has reached a point of obsurdity. This is not something thats just happening on one side of the fence. Beyond3d lately to me has been a very unfriendly place for tech discussions.

[Davros]

*note to self,
dont tell jokes to chrisray....

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Scali

So you admit that DX11 has nothing to show until the holiday season.
Guess you just like to argue

At least he doesn't do it in circles like you just did! DX11 should have something to show before DX11 is released to the public this holiday season?

I have to agree with ChrisRay, baiting individuals instead of addressing the issues, and attempting to thread crap has gotten out of hand on this thread. All y'all chill out.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

Whats ironic?

Well, I don't know what these programs that you are involved in entail exactly... but I do know that you apparently find it necessary to put it in your signature, even in the company colours.
Looks like an indirect promotion of that particular company. Then you ask me to support that people promote a certain brand/company on the internet

[ChrisRay]

To be honest Davros. I hear it so much. That such a joke would be very easily missed by me. If I misunderstood. I apologize.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Geo

At least he doesn't do it in circles like you just did! DX11 should have something to show before DX11 is released to the public this holiday season?

The DX11 hardware is released next week, so I don't see the circle? Unless the holiday season starts next week?

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by Scali

So you admit that DX11 has nothing to show until the holiday season.
Guess you just like to argue

Considering DX11 won't be out until the holiday season I'd have to say I guess you just like not making very much sense.

EDITED BITS: Sorry, G; just read your note...I'll try and stop.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

Considering DX11 won't be out until the holiday season I'd have to say I guess you just like not making very much sense.

EDITED BITS: Sorry, G; just read your note...I'll try and stop.

As I already said... the hardware is released next week. How will AMD promote the DX11 features without DX11 games? That has been my point all along.
It's bad enough that Geo pulled it out of context, you didn't have to double-up.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by Scali

As I already said... the hardware is released next week. How will AMD promote the DX11 features without DX11 games?

Well I would answer that, but then the ATi ninjas would come to my house and silence me forever so I can't....how about we wait and see?

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Scali

The DX11 hardware is released next week, so I don't see the circle? Unless the holiday season starts next week?

DX11 OS support goes wide release Oct 22, yes? R300 hardware released before DX9 as well. History shows that usually the company in that position finds it to be a significant long-term advantage, as it typically means they end up as the reference/development platform and the other companies spend the next 18 months griping about all the bugs/non-standard they have to support because the developers and end users have already been bent towards "what is correct" by the earliest hardware. Sometimes that has been ATI, sometimes NV.

None of which has much to do with this thread, of course. How did you vote?

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ChrisRay

*sigh* Digi. I would have hoped you'd know better than that. The user group is supposed to have it their signatures. The only reason I dont here is because everyone essentially knows who I am. And I am essentially breaking Nvidia's rules. Secondly, I had honestly hoped we'd be past all this by now. The user group has in no way recieved any kind of message to discredit AMD's newest cards.

Chris, I was in the process of chastising Digi for baiting you (I agree --everyone knows who you are and your history) when I discovered you seem to have taken personally a remark aimed at someone else entirely, as the remark Digi quoted showed.

[Grall]

Originally Posted by Scali

As I already said... the hardware is released next week. How will AMD promote the DX11 features without DX11 games? That has been my point all along.

That's no real point, considering DX11 will be released just a few weeks after the release of the card.

If you recall the launch of DX9, that delay was MUCH longer between the release of hardware supporting the API and the API itself.

You're just nitpicking, that's all.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Geo

DX11 OS support goes wide release Oct 22, yes? R300 hardware released before DX9 as well. History shows that usually the company in that position finds it to be a significant long-term advantage, as it typically means they end up as the reference/development platform and the other companies spend the next 18 months griping about all the bugs/non-standard they have to support because the developers and end users have already been bent towards "what is correct" by the earliest hardware. Sometimes that has been ATI, sometimes NV.

I don't think that really goes in this case. DX11 is an incremental step from DX10, where nVidia already set the standard. The most compelling new feature is the compute shader, which again is based on a standard set by nVidia.
Tessellation should be pretty straightforward to implement, so I don't think AMD and nVidia are going to be too far apart there.

Originally Posted by Geo

None of which has much to do with this thread, of course.

Nope, what I was referring to, was how AMD is going to sell their products to the public. Which has little to do with how well these products actually work, or how well they are received by developers.
It's a simple case of what games you have to showcase to the general public. Which will currently be DX9/DX10 games only... with no PhysX.
I can only refer back to GeForce FX... it wasn't a good line of cards, but nVidia managed to sell them to the public pretty well anyway.

Originally Posted by Geo

How did you vote?

As I already said: "Do nothing", let AMD spin their wheels on trying to market DX11. Then nVidia can just ride the wave of DX11 with their hardware.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Grall

That's no real point, considering DX11 will be released just a few weeks after the release of the card.

If you recall the launch of DX9, that delay was MUCH longer between the release of hardware supporting the API and the API itself.

You're just nitpicking, that's all.

No, I'm pointing out that nVidia has these shiny new PhysX games to show to the public... Where AMD has DX11, except they can only show DX9/DX10 stuff... They can't see anything shiny and new.
It's an incredibly good point actually.