[MrCarrefour]

It seems the new Ps3 slim will not be able to install linux:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/p...-compatibilit/

why ???

[patsu]

Yes, damn it. Has anyone spoke to FixStar yet ? They may try to reach out to Sony (or have already accepted the bad news).

[suryad]

I think Sony is deliberately trying to make themselves unpopular. Bring back the freaking linux support and bring back ps2 backwards compatibility you absolute f*#ktards!

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by patsu

Yes, damn it. Has anyone spoke to FixStar yet ? They may try to reach out to Sony (or have already accepted the bad news).

Actually I noted a few weeks ago that they sell PS3s themselves now, which makes sense - probably they'll be able to sell Linux capable PS3s for quite a while yet.

[Brad Grenz]

Obviously if you've had an eye on building that PS3 linux cluster you've always wanted, now is the time to go out and buy up every 80GB PS3 you can find. Should help to clear the channel!

[Npl]

damnit. no PS2 compatibility I can explain with cost reduction. But whats the reason of "no other OS"?

[Mike Acton]

I wonder if there are really a lot of people interested in programming for the Cell on a retail PS3 with Linux that haven't picked one up yet (or aren't going to pick one up through the remaining stock available). It's not really a problem for universities though, since the academic version was announced a while back (with RSX support), so the situation should be even better for them.

Of course, as a personal preference, I'd like to see the Other OS option kept around. Just in principle, it's a nice option to give to people. Especially hobbyists. I wonder what the support costs have been for it. Do they really get a lot of calls about PS3s related to the Other OS?

[MrCarrefour]

Originally Posted by Mike Acton

.. the academic version was announced a while back (with RSX support), so the situation should be even better for them.

Any reference about this?

Imho the "Other OS" can be a way to sell the FAT ps3 on market, althought people would wait for the slim one.
It's a bad news because the -34% of power the slim need should be a nice feature to consider.

I don't understand how sony can take this decision .. when there is fixstar, people working on cell support on linux kernel, Cell fan like us ..
Bad shot!

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by Mike Acton

I wonder if there are really a lot of people interested in programming for the Cell on a retail PS3 with Linux that haven't picked one up yet (or aren't going to pick one up through the remaining stock available). It's not really a problem for universities though, since the academic version was announced a while back (with RSX support), so the situation should be even better for them.

That's cool. Any idea about it's price?

[Arwin]

To be honest, I don't see yet that the Slim actually has a power reduction over the current 80GB. I'd like to see figures, but I think the only differences are in the Cell processor, and that's maybe like 20% of already a part that doesn't contribute that much to the power consumption, and maybe a little bit heat reduction so the fan won't have to work so hard, but it's also a smaller case which can but doesn't necessarily help. I doubt we'll be able to detect a meaningful difference between the currently already quite good 80GB power consumption and the Slim.

[Npl]

Originally Posted by Mike Acton

I wonder if there are really a lot of people interested in programming for the Cell on a retail PS3 with Linux that haven't picked one up yet (or aren't going to pick one up through the remaining stock available). It's not really a problem for universities though, since the academic version was announced a while back (with RSX support), so the situation should be even better for them.

Of course, as a personal preference, I'd like to see the Other OS option kept around. Just in principle, it's a nice option to give to people. Especially hobbyists. I wonder what the support costs have been for it. Do they really get a lot of calls about PS3s related to the Other OS?

Since its still supported for the old models I cant see how keeping the feature could add cost for (user) support. It might add costs if they have to write/maintain drivers and the slim PS3 changing some of the hardware.

Actually I was hoping Sony would open up more (RSX) once the PS3 was sold at profit, so this really is big disappointment for me. And I cant explain the course they have taken.

[Mike Acton]

Official-ish response from:
http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/...p?msg_id=51038

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

[patsu]

Ah, should have included that little bit of info in one of the post-announcement exec interviews. Also they really need to direct the attention to the new dev kit they launched in EU universities. Really wish I can get my hands on one.

[Shifty Geezer]

Nice to have an explanation. Though I'm scratching my head over the hypervisor driver aspect. This suggests the hypervisor needs a low-level, intrinsic understanding of the hardware, whereas I thought it was a broader 'catch-all' technology. Point being, if you drop a Cell card into a PC, is it going to be secure, or will that security be dependent on drivers?

It's still a tragic loss. I wanted a proper computer, like the old days. I don't suppse those educational kits are available for anyone who'll pay? They'll be limited to choice universities, right?

[betan]

I buy the unofficial reason more than the official one.

[Vitaly Vidmirov]

A rather strange explanation. I mean the cost of driver tweaks for new HW... in contrast to the cost of the whole effort - CELL public tools, linux patches, documentation, trainings, etc (mainly done by IBM, though). A lot of people invested their own money/time in CELL. I believe, this can justify a little spendings on extra driver developer for transnational corporation.

They have to modify/rewrite the hypervisor drivers for gameOs anyway.

[MrCarrefour]

Originally Posted by Mike Acton

In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE

Ok, so how much can this cost?!?
Is this driver embedded in the firmware update, so we can hope the "Other OS" will come one day in the ps3 slim or we can forget "Other Os" option forever ?
It should be interesting to know what does fixstar think about this!!

[Mike Acton]

Another semi-official response from Geoff Levand at Sony on the cbe-oss-dev list:

The feature of "Install Other OS" was removed from the new
"Slim" PS3 model to focus on delivering games and other
entertainment content.

Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue
the support for previously sold models that have the
"Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will
not be disabled in future firmware releases.

[popper]

No matter what Geoff Levand at Sony or anyone else there says outside 'we made a mistake and its back on, and we are going to expand and open up its Other OS 3D potential with a fully working OSS code drop to say sorry' is Bad.

'End of life'ing' anything pritty much kills all the future potential, we have all seen it far to many times to forget that.

the PPC/Altivec is dead, long live the PPC while it still powers up and runs that is.

so is there any prospect of a Cheap mass produced drop in PCI-E multi PPC Cell card for a x86/x64 PC, unlikely on mass as the Only thing that could turn it around, as the PPC/Altivec/CELL vendors dont care for it any more, only cheap and nasty non PPC based Cell in their future virtually handing the x86/x64 markets all the income on a plate outside Big Iron and perhaps that too soon enough, and so your going to need to port the mass of existing PPC/altivec code to these offerings sometime

[pcchen]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Nice to have an explanation. Though I'm scratching my head over the hypervisor driver aspect. This suggests the hypervisor needs a low-level, intrinsic understanding of the hardware, whereas I thought it was a broader 'catch-all' technology. Point being, if you drop a Cell card into a PC, is it going to be secure, or will that security be dependent on drivers?

I guess the problem with hypervisor is about some I/O devices, e.g. SATA, RSX, etc. Since the "Other OS" on PS3 is a pretty strict sandbox, it requires almost all drivers to handle all hardwares through the hypervisor. Therefore, if they decided to use a new SATA controller on the new PS3, for example, they would have to write a new driver for the hypervisor.

[Npl]

I planned not to get a TV until LED-Backlights are affordable, I planned not to get a console or any other deterrent as I`m gonna start on my diploma thesis soon...
Then Sony happens while you`re making other plans.

Now I got a 40GB "Fat" PS3 and nothing to hook it up to. My little sister is happy though as I therefore just left it at my parents and it came with Singstar and LBP (and Motorstorm.. all for 250€).
And naturally I`m now motivated to get a TV.

I just hope this wasnt an evil plot to get people like me clearing the old stock.

[thop]

The official explanation is a bit strange, as Sony does and will continue to support Other OS on the old PS3, and the employees from the Linux team are still employed and will be. The removal of the feature may encourage a few people to make Linux run properly on the PS3, which will then by proxy most likely also enable piracy.

[DeanA]

Originally Posted by thop

The official explanation is a bit strange, as Sony does and will continue to support Other OS on the old PS3, and the employees from the Linux team are still employed and will be. The removal of the feature may encourage a few people to make Linux run properly on the PS3, which will then by proxy most likely also enable piracy.

The OtherOS hypervisor is done. It's included in firmware, and used by old hardware which is compatible with it. It has no dependency on other OS components. The level of support needed for it is likely as straightforward as just including the existing module in the firmware without any modifications.

Assuming that continuing support of OtherOS for old PS3s involves anything more than that level of work is simply jumping to conclusions.

Cheers,
Dean

[idsn6]

Originally Posted by DeanA

Assuming that continuing support of OtherOS for old PS3s involves anything more than that level of work is simply jumping to conclusions.

Well, I assume any employees retained are so they can be deployed in the case someone finds access to the RSX again. That was basically all they did before anyway, right?

[patsu]

Not really. If you visit the oss-cbe-dev mailing list, there are Sony staff enhancing and fixing Linux kernel bugs.