[kyleb]

Originally Posted by ECH

Take a moment and watch this video using the LMG ( a few months ago). As you can see there are plenty of LMG and handgun ribbons but no suppression ribbon

There's no suppression ribbons in that because he killed pretty much everyone he shot at, and you don't get suppression kill assist bonuses when you get the kill. He did get a couple suppression kill assist bonuses though, one at 1:12 and the other at 1:25.

[ECH]

Originally Posted by kyleb

There's no suppression ribbons in that because he killed pretty much everyone he shot at, and you don't get suppression kill assist bonuses when you get the kill. He did get a couple suppression kill assist bonuses though, one at 1:12 and the other at 1:25.

That's the point. Without the suppression specialization you didn't get suppression ribbons/medals, blurry screen, random deviation, etc. Unlike some who thought you did (before the patch).

Now if you are that hard pressed for suppression you select it as part of your loadout. That's what the specializations are for.

[DeF]

Originally Posted by bigtabs

ECH. Sorry, you are wrong on this. Suppression was always there. It's effect has simply been magnified since this patch to the point where people actually notice it now (which in my personal opinion is great). It's not a subjective thing, it's just a fact that the suppressive perk simply increased the suppressive effect that was already there, and it still does this, post-patch.

You could still get suppression ribbons and suppressive fire bonuses without any perks at all, both before and after the patch. Only one thing has changed, and that is the degree to which the suppressive fire affects your vision and aim.

It's funny to hear DeF still moaning about it on Teamspeak most evenings... as he is laying waste to all and sundry and stealing all of my MVP ribbons... You'd think the rest of us would be the ones with something to complain about.

In my mind suppression has gone from something that was next to useless to an actual viable mechanic, as it was seemingly intended to be from the outset.

This thread still sucks a bit, but if you look back you can easily pin it on Davros. The dirty troll doesn't even have the game, yet he wades in here causing arguments.

I am whining constantly because i get suppressed by single bullet fired from silenced pistol. This is a bit ridiculous IMO. I am fine with current suppresive power of LMGs. Also duration time for lack of accuracy when suppressed should be reduced.

[Bludd]

Originally Posted by ECH

That's the point. Without the suppression specialization you didn't get suppression ribbons/medals, blurry screen, random deviation, etc. Unlike some who thought you did (before the patch).

Now if you are that hard pressed for suppression you select it as part of your loadout. That's what the specializations are for.

Wrong.

[kyleb]

Originally Posted by ECH

Without the suppression specialization you didn't get suppression ribbons/medals, blurry screen, random deviation, etc.

The guy got two suppression kill assist bonuses in that video. He would have got a ribbon for getting seven in a round, and a suppression metal at 50 ribbons, whether he ever used the suppression specialization or otherwise. All the suppression specializations ever did is increase the how much screen bluing and accuracy loss the suppressed players recive, +25% with the individual perk and *50%, and I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed since the patch. What the patch most certainly did change is the base values for how much suppression effect players receive, increasing both to the point of absurdity.

[ECH]

Originally Posted by kyleb

The guy got two suppression kill assist bonuses in that video.

It's moot. There was no suppression ribbons or medals, prolong blurring, etc given. As it's suppose to be when suppression specialization is not used (which is what the video shows). As you pointed out it was working find before the patch. If you want to get the full effect of suppression you use the suppression specialization.

Originally Posted by kyleb

He would have got a ribbon for getting seven in a round, and a suppression metal at 50 ribbons, whether he ever used the suppression specialization or otherwise. All the suppression specializations ever did is increase the how much screen bluing and accuracy loss the suppressed players recive, +25% with the individual perk and *50%, and I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed since the patch. What the patch most certainly did change is the base values for how much suppression effect players receive, increasing both to the point of absurdity.

Could have, would have or should have is not the point though. You get them if you select the specialization for it. But the point is, and I agree, that it is way to high for default value. The duration is to long, it should take more bullets to cause it and you shouldn't have random deviation. The blur effect alone can do that. Basically, it needs to be nerfed then only enabled once you select the suppression specialization.

[Bludd]

Originally Posted by ECH

Basically, it needs to be nerfed then only enabled once you select the suppression specialization.

Why? Why should suppression be the only gameplay element where you have to take a spec to use it?

[ECH]

Originally Posted by Bludd

Why? Why should suppression be the only gameplay element where you have to take a spec to use it?

Why do we need to select which specialization we want to use for more ammo/frags, sprinting, flak, explosives and cover? A quick glance at the specializations would show you that suppression is part of that list. And in order to get that specialization you have to choose which one you want.

[Bludd]

Originally Posted by ECH

Why do we need to select which specialization we want to use for more ammo/frags, sprinting, flak, explosives and cover? A quick glance at the specializations would show you that suppression is part of that list. And in order to get that specialization you have to choose which one you want.

All the other specs augment an already unlocked ability. In your world, suppression is the only ability that needs to be unlocked by a spec. Why?

[kyleb]

Originally Posted by ECH

It's moot.

No, it's apparently too complected for you to wrap your head around, but its quite the opposite of moot regardless.

Originally Posted by ECH

Why do we need to select which specialization we want to use for more ammo/frags, sprinting, flak, explosives and cover?

The key word there is more: the ammo specialization gives you more ammo, the frag specialization gives you more frags, the sprinting specialization gives you more sprint speed, the flak specialization gives you more protection from explosions, the explosives specialization gives you more explosives, the cover specialization gives you more resistance to suppression, and the suppression specialization gives more suppression effect to the people you shoot near. This is the way the game has always been, the patch didn't change any of that.

[ECH]

Originally Posted by Bludd

All the other specs augment an already unlocked ability. In your world, suppression is the only ability that needs to be unlocked by a spec. Why?

That's irrelevant to my response to you. Suppression is specialization therefore, it should be used to it's fullest when it's selected. We've gone full circle about this already. If you are not sure about my response just read my other posts. No need to regurgitate the same thing over and over again.

Originally Posted by kyleb

No, it's apparently too complected for you to wrap your head around, but its quite the opposite of moot regardless.

It's apparent that you can't wrap your head around your previous comment.

What the patch most certainly did change is the base values for how much suppression effect players receive, increasing both to the point of absurdity.

So again, it's moot. The gist was the ribbons and medals along with the blurring and random deviation. Which wasn't there in the video.

Originally Posted by kyleb

The key word there is more: the ammo specialization gives you more ammo, the frag specialization gives you more frags, the sprinting specialization gives you more sprint speed, the flak specialization gives you more protection from explosions, the explosives specialization gives you more explosives, the cover specialization gives you more resistance to suppression, and the suppression specialization gives more suppression effect to the people you shoot near. This is the way the game has always been, the patch didn't change any of that.

More is not relevant in this context. This is because suppression specialization isn't needed to suppress others and get ribbons/medals. The idea is that there should be some distinction between when you use the suppression specialization and when you don't. But this is also becoming redundant conversation as this was discussed already. But overall (since it's hard for you to grasp) when you don't have the suppression specialization you get little to no use of it. Just like it was before the patch. If you want to get those ribbons/medal as well as fully suppress players, etc then you select it as part of you loadout. Something mentioned already.

I understand we aren't going to agree here. However, I think it's time you see the same.

[bigtabs]

ECH, the ribbons and medals were possible to get without the perk. The suppression ribbons were difficult compared to most others, but they were completely possible. The suppression perk was never ever a requirement to get those ribbons, though of course it helped.

Can we really agree to disagree on something that is plain fact? It's not a subjective viewpoint on something, it's just what it is. As far as I'm aware there is no alternate universe where what you are saying is true.

The perks are still making a difference to the suppression effect. It's just that the base value is higher now. It is the easiest concept in the world to get your head around.

Damn you Davros.

[Davros]

What have I done !!!

[bigtabs]

What haven't you done?

I'm sorry ECH. You're right, I think we should just agree to disagree. I've been feeling terribly argumentative of late and it's such a pointless thing to be getting worked up about.

/takes chill pill

[Davros]

I havnt ever played battlefield 3

[cjo]

Originally Posted by bigtabs

I've been feeling terribly argumentative of late and it's such a pointless thing to be getting worked up about.

/takes chill pill

You say that now, but I bet you'll be just as angry at the next M26 DART-weilding wall-hacking "n00b" when you next play BF3 :P

[homerdog]

Originally Posted by Davros

I havnt ever played battlefield 3

It's really good. But I don't know if it's worth it if you won't touch the multiplayer. Plus the Origin baggage. I doubt you want that on your machine.

[kyleb]

Originally Posted by ECH

It's apparent that you can't wrap your head around your previous comment.

No, I'm well aware of that, but also aware of the fact that one never needed to use a suppression specialization to get the ribbons and metals, and the fact that suppressed players always got screen bluing and accuracy reduction regardless of whether the player suppressing them was using use a suppression specialization or otherwise. It seems those facts are still alluding you though.

Originally Posted by ECH

So again, it's moot. The gist was the ribbons and medals along with the blurring and random deviation. Which wasn't there in the video.

Screen bluing can be seen right after the first 20 seconds of that video. as soon as he first gets suppressed. but what is or isn't shown in that one particular video is the moot factor here. Every person he shot bullets by got some blurring and accuracy loss, but of course that can't be seen in video from the perspective of the guy shooting, and every suppressed player killed by someone else earns a bonus, every seven bonuses earns a ribbon, and ever 50 ribbons earns a metal.

Originally Posted by ECH

This is because suppression specialization isn't needed to suppress others and get ribbons/medals.

It never was.

Originally Posted by ECH

The idea is that there should be some distinction between when you use the suppression specialization and when you don't.

There is and always was.

Originally Posted by ECH

I understand we aren't going to agree here. However, I think it's time you see the same.

As long as you keep spouting misconceptions, I'm going to keep refuting them. If you're don't want me refuting your misconceptions, keep them to yourself.

[Bludd]

kyleb, he just won't accept facts and insists that this somehow is a matter of opinion. Just give it up and let him live in fantasy land.

[ECH]

Originally Posted by bigtabs

What haven't you done?

I'm sorry ECH. You're right, I think we should just agree to disagree. I've been feeling terribly argumentative of late and it's such a pointless thing to be getting worked up about.

/takes chill pill

No problem there we can only agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by kyleb

snip...

I find it funny that you go out of your way to create this needless argument. You haven't added anything new and exhausted this discussion. Although we won't agree it's clear that the suppression specialization should be distinguishable when selected or not and 'nerfed' by your replies. BTW, there was a 2nd video I posted clearly showing suppression and its effects before the patch, lol. The duration and effect was miniscule before the patch. Which is what I implied earlier. As for the 1st video 20seconds...not noticeable and that's the point. If it's not noticeable it's not there.

Edit:
Here's something else I found suggesting that suppression needs to be re-addressed:

Originally Posted by DeF

Podcast with Demize99.
Interesting discussion on the last patch.

Also another link showing broken mechanics of the suppression.

Suppression - Getting Shot vs Getting Shot At.

The problem i have with suppression after patch is that its promoting less skilled players going full auto on me vs my burst firing on them. When i meet enemy ingame and fire first burst at him (burst that hits the target) he instantly goes full auto and i get suppressed to hell. The outcome is that i cant hit him at all but he will eventually kill me with his high ROF weapon. Normally being able to shot first and hit was advantageous but now it seems its actually better to miss first few bullets and deprive your opponent of accuracy.

Originally Posted by Richard

Here's a question (haven't had the opportunity to play yet since the patch), I take it the the anti-suppression perk doesn't solve the problem?

Originally Posted by DeF

Unfortunately it does not. I spent some time using it but with little effect. I am not saying its not working at all but its just not really worth it.

[Bludd]

Oh look at him back-pedaling! Too late, sucka, your foot is deeply embedded in your mouth.

[Davros]

@homerdog as I said before it was BF2 that made me decide to stay away from multiplayer fps. I could believe the levels of assclownery going on.

[ECH]

Originally Posted by Bludd

Oh look at him back-pedaling! Too late, sucka, your foot is deeply embedded in your mouth.

LOL, I've not backed peddle on anything. Care to elaborate? Or are you just trolling?

[Billy Idol]

Err, everyone who played BF3 MP more than 5 min knows that all bigtaps says about surpression is true...err, and like he said, there is really no reason to discuss 'opinions' about something that is a fact?!?!?

I played recently more 'normal' mode...my new theory: hardcore mode which I typically prefer is a little bit unbalanced in BF3...towards sniper and sniper kills...I suppose that the game is balanced for normal mode, and just works better in normal mode.

hence, last games I played in normal mode are a bit better...they were still games which are highly unblananced (more than 200 tickets difference)...

[bigtabs]

Spot the difference Chilly?