[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

I'm usually onto something new and different by the time the mods are ever released.

That's exactly what these companies want.


If they really cared, they could release mod tools before the game is even out, like Tripwire.

Recently you announced a rather unique program for the game's first expansion pack, Rising Storm, where members of the Red Orchestra mod community will be in charge of developing the expansion. Can you tell us why you wanted to do this?

John Gibson: Given the way we got our start as a mod team we've got very deep ties to the mod community, and believe some of the best innovation comes from the mod community. Over the past few years we've also developed a really symbiotic relationship with the mod community for our games. We've held several mapping competitions where we've put up prizes to reward the best community mappers. We've even taken some of the best maps and mods and included them as official content for our games. This is good for us as it keeps our games in peoples minds and keeps them selling, it is good for the modders as they get to hone their game development skills and possibly get jobs in the industry (we recently hired two developers out of our mod community), and most importantly the fans win because they get a lot of additional free content. The modders for our games have created some really great stuff with a lot of it being professional quality. Right now for instance 30 percent of all the players playing the original Red Orchestra are playing one of the mods called Darkest Hour. That says a lot for the quality of work coming out of the community.

As we were developing Heroes of Stalingrad we came up with some ideas on how we could take these concepts even further. So we came up with the idea for a crazy experiment we called the "All Star Mod Team." We would reach out to the mod community for Red Orchestra and the modding community at large and try and assemble a team of the best modders in the industry. We would then offer them the opportunity to work on a project under the guidance of Tripwire Interactive with an opportunity to actually earn some real money for their work. These guys would get early access to the modding SDK and actually be developing the expansion in parallel with Heroes of Stalingrad. One problem that often plagues mods is that it takes so long to make a quality total conversion mod that they often don't get released until a couple of years after the original game is released. This means a lot of a game's player base has moved on to other games by the time the best mods get released, and a lot of really great mods get overlooked (Mare Nostrum, NeoTokyo, Insurgency, Carpathian Crosses just to name a few). So we wanted to engage a mod team early on so that they can get something out the door while Heroes of Stalingrad is still fresh.

Alan Wilson: We wanted to be able to expand on the original theater for RO. We also wanted to get behind the modders who have done so much work on RO over the last few years. This way, a bunch of them get a great opportunity both to show what they can do AND earn money – and we get extra material for Heroes at a reasonably early stage. Most good mods for games take a year or two to make and we wanted this material available a lot sooner than that..

http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/06/...hestra-heroes/

[Scott_Arm]

I definitely prefer valves model of free content to extend the life of the product. I think it's a smart, rational approach, where you still have people buying the game years after release, rather than getting a smaller user-base and trying to squeeze money out of them.

That said, conversion mods seem to take two or three years to come out. By that time, I'm already playing a different or new game. You can say that's what "they" want, but that's also what I want. I like to play new and different games. It's very difficult for the mod community to release a conversion mod with the production quality near retail in a timely manner. They just don't have the time or resources to do it. If Frostbite 2.0 really is incredibly complex, I can see how they might feel it would not be suited to the mod community. Obviously, there are financial reasons to try to limit free content, and I imagine those are in play as well.

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

It's very difficult for the mod community to release a conversion mod with the production quality near retail

Why, is that requimerent for enjoyment of them? Not every games needs to have high production values, which is the main reason for dumbing down of games these days.

[Scott_Arm]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

Why would it need? Not every games needs to have high production values.

That's true. I'm not a huge graphics whore or anything. But I could see modders struggling to produce quality animations for a new animation system, etc, and there will be a point where gamers will feel the difference between the quality of the retail product and a mod is too great, and will not play it.

[RobertR1]

Counter Strike started as a mod....Oblivion modded is a much better experience than OEM. I'm not talking graphics either. Balance changes, gui and inventory system overhaul.

Sure as games get more complicated, so will the mod tools but giving people the option to mod is generally better than no option at all esp if the mod tools can be used to help balance the game or tweak gameplay. The findings form the mod community can also be added to the OEM product by the developer depending on the community feedback.

[Scott_Arm]

I see more value in modding single-player games for a custom offline experience. For an online game with Battlefield, which I guess they're saying will have a better single-player component this time around, you can't really do any modding unless it's a total conversion or a completely different branch of the game, with its own servers, and a fractured player base.

I know Counterstrike started as a mod, but that was ages ago, when you could make a quality mod much much faster than you can now. I'm sure Dice could provide modding tools. The question is whether the community would be able to deal with the complexity of the game engine and come out with anything worthwhile in a reasonable time frame. I'm sure the community could make something, but it's a question to Dice as to whether they feel it's worthwhile to develop a toolset for modders, or put those man hours into their game. I can see both points of view.

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

I know Counterstrike started as a mod, but that was ages ago, when you could make a quality mod much much faster than you can now.

I doubt that. Aren't tools much better and easier to work with nowadays and significantly more people are using them? Just look at the ammount of stuff released with Source, UE3/UDK, Gamebryo, Thief fan missions, racing mods, Civ and NWN2 stuff, Total War total conversions and so on.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by NRP

You know, it wouldn't kill you to man up and play some MP every once in a while (well, it might actually ).

Heh, perhaps I'll give the online FPS world a peek again when I get BF3. Part of not coming back to FPS multiplayer (versus something like DoW II coop) is that I know my FPS skills have been greatly dulled by age. I'll be a sad panda if I can't consistently get in the top 2-3 on every server.

Regards,
SB

[Squilliam]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

This is a joke, right?

I honestly had no idea Battlefield 1/2/3 as a series existed...

[Scott_Arm]

Originally Posted by Squilliam

I honestly had no idea Battlefield 1/2/3 as a series existed...

There was never a Battlefield 1, which was very strange. It went 1942, Vietnam and then Battlefield 2, I think. Then they did 2143, Bad Company, 1943, Bad Company 2 and now Bad Company 2: Vietnam, which is also very confusing. Heroes came out in there somewhere.

Bad Company 2 was the shit, basically. 64 players, classes, squads, commander role, huge maps, lots of vehicles.

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

Bad Company 2 was the shit, basically. 64 players, classes, squads, commander role, huge maps, lots of vehicles.

You mean Battlefield 2? :

[Scott_Arm]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

You mean Battlefield 2? :

I did mean Battlefield 2, but Bad Company 2 is the shit as well.

[NRP]

I certainly shit the first time I played BF2.

The highlight for me however was Special Forces. I nearly shit the first time I got tear gassed and the screen got all woozy. Grappling hooks, zip lines, etc. Just pure awesome.

[Mobius1aic]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

Or they could follow the Valve model of growing the community and which would keep people buying the full game for years instead of nickle and diming people with DLCs and map macks.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/va...charge-for-dlc

But what about the Mann-Co store for TF2? My idea for mods wouldn't extend into the core BF3 experience. I personally have a problem with DLC if it cuts into the core multiplayer game, like map packs. Preferably, I think they should be planned to be included in patches to add more to the game over time for no cost to the players. DLC mods I would run completely separate of the core game itself like any BF2 multiplayer mod. I just think the option to allow people to sell their mods could work out pretty well if the creator chooses to. If they (mod creators) decide to release for free, DICE still gets some money for having the toolkit bought. It's possible to create word of mouth via the mods on the internet. For me, Mount & Blade Warband is a good example of me seeing a game on the net, and deciding I have to buy it. I'm very satisfied with my purchase

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by Mobius1aic

Preferably, I think they should be planned to be included in patches to add more to the game over time for no cost to the players

Yeah, I agree.

Implementing Man-Co-like stuff in any game shouldn't have an impact on the game's balance. TF2 is already enough "casual" as it is, and much less competitive oriented than TFC.

[Mobius1aic]

Oh and I forgot to mention, it was only on the internet that I found out about the mods I've played heavily for Battlefield 2: Forgotten Hope 2, Project Reality and AIX, all excellent mods.

[neliz]

I'm in taiwan and pre-ordered bf3 (english) with my EA account here. the price €27!

[neliz]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Heh, perhaps I'll give the online FPS world a peek again when I get BF3. Part of not coming back to FPS multiplayer (versus something like DoW II coop) is that I know my FPS skills have been greatly dulled by age. I'll be a sad panda if I can't consistently get in the top 2-3 on every server.

Regards,
SB

really? being a top dog is fun but especially in something like bc2 I often cherrish the experience of doing something awesome over actually being on top. that's just a side effect of enjoying your game.

[homerdog]

Been playing some Bad Company 2 lately. Never was that big into the previous BF games so I don't know what I'm missing, but BC2 is total awesomeness IMO.

Now that Crytek has gone the CoD route with multiplayer BF3 will be the only game in town.

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by homerdog

Been playing some Bad Company 2 lately. Never was that big into the previous BF games so I don't know what I'm missing, but BC2 is total awesomeness IMO.

Now that Crytek has gone the CoD route with multiplayer BF3 will be the only game in town.

Bad Company already went the CoD route, and looks like BF3 will too with the removal of commander featureand squad talk "later". And the reason given for the revomal of commander is a text book example of "dumbing down". Riccitelo already said they want to take on CoD, and by god they'll fulfill that promise do it along with map packs and no PC mod tools.

You forgot Natural Selection 2, Red Orchestra 2 and Nuclear Dawn. To save us from the mediocrity of the lowest common dennominator and race to the bottom,

[N_B]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

Riccitelo already said they want to take on CoD, and by god they'll fulfill that promise do it along with map packs and no PC mod tools.

You forgot Natural Selection 2, Red Orchestra 2 and Nuclear Dawn. To save us from the mediocrity of the lowest common dennominator and race to the bottom,

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...od-by-copying/

Speaking to fans via Twitter, Kertz wrote: "You don't kill COD by trying to be COD. You kill COD by making a better shooter."

The DICE man also promised a significant amount of depth over the last Battlefield instalment:

"BF3 will be deeper than BF2," he wrote. "That said we've paid a lot of attention to keeping depth while pacing the learning curve.

"BF3 is the sequel to BF2. It's not BC3. No, grappling hook and zipline are not in the plan."

Don't you think all the pessimism is a bit much at this stage?

[Rootax]

I just want to play Desert Combat with nice graphics...

[homerdog]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

Bad Company already went the CoD route, and looks like BF3 will too with the removal of commander featureand squad talk "later". And the reason given for the revomal of commander is a text book example of "dumbing down". Riccitelo already said they want to take on CoD, and by god they'll fulfill that promise do it along with map packs and no PC mod tools.

Have you play CoD lately? BC2 is nothing like it, and so much better. And like N_B said they're going for more depth in BF3.

Crysis on the other hand has jumped on the CoD train head over heals. They dropped everything that made their multiplayer great and unique.

[Neb]

BC2 beasts COD with it's pinky, period. COD is pure run and gun, BC2 is very tactical and requires more skills than just putting your crosshair at someone head and holding down the trigger for X sec.

[neliz]

I'm thinking most people here are afraid of "going COD" means more simplicity. And devs adding "more depth" is just the amount of unlocks and customization.

I suggest everyone to take a look at battlefield online (play4free variant) to see what is possible with a dumbed down (no squads, but assault has a squad leader like unlock) yet expanded BF2 would look like.

ofcourse, when you're in the beta, I'm neliz there... add me to the friends list.