[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by user542745831

http://www.videogamer.com/news/turn_...n_forza_2.html

Blah the bloke just comes across too cocky. Sometimes, people need to know when to turn off their boasting gene.

Now that he's made those claims it's just going to encourage people to look for whatever flaws they can find, perhaps even so far as to not appreciate any of the good things they might have accomplished.

Shame...

Regards,
SB

[RobertR1]

Can we just leave the PR bs off this site?

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Arwin

It can be a lot more subtle than you think. It's also not a new idea at all!

Like here:

Oh yeah, exactly what I was thinking of, except more polished than that demonstration video.

Ah, perhaps someday a mainstream racer will include that out of the box. I would seriously pick up racing games again...

As well as flight sims...

Regards,
SB

[dobwal]

Originally Posted by Arwin

It can be a lot more subtle than you think. It's also not a new idea at all!

Like here:

Looks great except the fact that he actually never really uses it to any great affect during the race other than show that its functional during a straight away.

Its unnatural to use a static display and head tracking in such manner. While driving you tend to steer in the direction you are looking, which in reality works very well when corning. But in the head tracking scenario you create a scenario that breaks that hand to eye coordination and turns it into hand to head coordination.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by dobwal

Looks great except the fact that he actually never really uses it to any great affect during the race other than show that its functional during a straight away.

Its unnatural to use a static display and head tracking in such manner. While driving you tend to steer in the direction you are looking, which in reality works very well when corning. But in the head tracking scenario you create a scenario that breaks that hand to eye coordination and turns it into hand to head coordination.

Except steering in cockpit view breaks the hand-eye coordination of turning even more.

As when using a static display you are always looking forward while you're turning either left or right. This is a bit disorienting for me as not only do I not see where I'm turning, but my head doesn't turn to reflect the fact that I'm turning.

Neither system will get it perfectly like RL at least not without VR style head mounted displays or a screen that curves around you at least in a half sphere..

However, as least this pseudo system will allow the view to change. One less thing to be disoriented with. And at least some movement of the head to track with the change in direction that your hands are telling you should be happening.

Regards,
SB

[Arwin]

By the way, chespace confirmed that all new screenshots that have been released have been made with the new and improved photomode. So if there were any doubts (probably not too many), there you have it. Still though, the cars look awesome and the detail with which they are being rendered is pretty amazing.

[dobwal]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Except steering in cockpit view breaks the hand-eye coordination of turning even more.

As when using a static display you are always looking forward while you're turning either left or right. This is a bit disorienting for me as not only do I not see where I'm turning, but my head doesn't turn to reflect the fact that I'm turning.

Neither system will get it perfectly like RL at least not without VR style head mounted displays or a screen that curves around you at least in a half sphere..

However, as least this pseudo system will allow the view to change. One less thing to be disoriented with. And at least some movement of the head to track with the change in direction that your hands are telling you should be happening.

Regards,
SB

One is like driving a car with black out side windows, the other is like driving the car where the windshield and windows have been replaced with display screens and your forward orientation is dependent on the direction of your head.

I not sure how its less disorienting to create a situation where when your head and eyes aren't pointing in the same direction that the object that your eyes are directly focused on is not oriented in space as it would be in reality

One way to remedy your issue to is by having racing game not make use of the whole screen vertically and creating a wider viewing angle.

[tha_con]

I stand by my suggestion that the POV should change slightly (and most certainly automatically) when you turn.

I view a lot of the new found suggestions for this ridiculous NATAL project to be nothing more than initial desires, but in the end, they simply won't work. It's just new car smell. I forsee limited application, just like Wii, some break out use, while the rest is just worthless.

The tech has potential, but throwing it at every genre you can is just going to expose it's flaws and weakness, rather than highlight it's strengths. I'll never change my stance that head tracking (for this specific purpose) in a racing game is absolutely unnatural and useless.

[JardeL]

Originally Posted by Arwin

By the way, chespace confirmed that all new screenshots that have been released have been made with the new and improved photomode. So if there were any doubts (probably not too many), there you have it. Still though, the cars look awesome and the detail with which they are being rendered is pretty amazing.

I'd like to know more about photo mode... Is it like Motorstorm:PR's or adds AA , DOF etc. ?..

[Graham]

Originally Posted by tha_con

I stand by my suggestion that the POV should change slightly (and most certainly automatically) when you turn.

I'd agree for the most part. The only game I can remember that did do this was microsoft's 'CART Precision Racing' from wayyyyy back in the day. I've done the same thing in my own demos in the past too

[tha_con]

Originally Posted by Graham

I'd agree for the most part. The only game I can remember that did do this was microsoft's 'CART Precision Racing' from wayyyyy back in the day. I've done the same thing in my own demos in the past too

It just seems like such a clever solution to an ongoing problem with racing titles.

Hopefully we'll see something like this soon, or in some free patch. It makes me sad because I remember I had a mod for GTR that did this way back...and it tempts me to upgrade my PC and get back into sim racing on that

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by keyn

I'd like to know more about photo mode... Is it like Motorstorm:PR's or adds AA , DOF etc. ?..

Very likely to be much more advanced. Have you ever seen GT4's photo mode? If not, google that.

[2real4tv]

Is it true there will only be eight cars max?

[Arwin]

Notice 'running out', not 'have run out'. Let's not pay too much attention to such PR drivel on this forum. That path only leads to deleted posts and frustrated mods.

[catisfit]

I think there's a good reason why only CART Precision Racing had automatic head movement - in a videogame visual clues are the main feedback for exactly what your car is doing, and automatically moving the camera eliminates a lot of that. TrackIR/Natal control might be nice for some people though. I'm happy using the right analogue to be honest (if only it was really analogue and not 8-way in F2).

I hadn't even thought of the car numbers, just assumed it was 16 for some reason. If it's still 8 I'll be disappointed - surely that would have been #1 on the improvement list from F2?

[the ignoramus]

I'm not opposed to a maximum of 8 cars, the trade off is a beautiful environment with a fair amount of detail. If the competition didnt have a NASCAR license, I'd fully support an 8 car limit from them as well.

[infinity4]

Originally Posted by 2real4tv

Is it true there will only be eight cars max?

Yes, 8 cars in Single Player and Multiplayer. Can't find the link but I guess someone else here will find it for you.

To be honest 8 isn't bad but not good either because track feels empty. But I am always winning so that isn't problemo.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by the ignoramus

I'm not opposed to a maximum of 8 cars, the trade off is a beautiful environment with a fair amount of detail. If the competition didnt have a NASCAR license, I'd fully support an 8 car limit from them as well.

Well I agree to some extent, but I must say after having driven a game with 6 cars for a looooong time on LAN parties, I'm happy that we can do a 16 player online match now. It's definitely very exciting, especially with for instance a bunch of cup-cars ... I love that kind of racing. But there are a host of issues right now that I think prevent Forza from implementing much more than 8 racers, even if they had the rendering power to spare. The netcode for Forza 2 for instance is a full 8-to-8 peer-to-peer affair, which I hate. Would be great if they could improve on this somewhere, but I haven't heard anything about that for Forza 3 so far.

[Gubbi]

I'd much rather have 16 cars and lower fidelity graphics than 8 cars with high poly count.

Going round Nurburgring can get kind of lonely with just 8 cars.

Cheers

[the ignoramus]

Cockpit view will be 60 fps come release. It simply has to be, given all of Turn 10's rhetoric as of late.

[catisfit]

Originally Posted by Gubbi

I'd much rather have 16 cars and lower fidelity graphics than 8 cars with high poly count.

Going round Nurburgring can get kind of lonely with just 8 cars.

Cheers

I did the Tsukuba endurance race in F2 the other day, 8 cars seemed about right for field competition and lapping frequency etc, but that's a 1.3 mile track.

Nurburgring isn't a great example because the same experience would require something like 80 cars. For a standard length track, somewhere between 16-24 seems about right (excluding ovals).

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Le Mans Circuit announced!

Photo Gallery

Looking really good, cannot wait to see what other tracks they announce in the future.

[RobertR1]

Those pics are awesome. Still can't believe the jump from Forza 2 to Forza 3. I like the detail on the little houses/huts in one of the pics. Lots of work put into enviornments.

Car games are weird, we drool over the cars and pics of them but when you're racing, most of the time it's the enviornments you're seeing!

[Jugix]

Originally Posted by RobertR1

Those pics are awesome. Still can't believe the jump from Forza 2 to Forza 3. I like the detail on the little houses/huts in one of the pics. Lots of work put into enviornments.

Car games are weird, we drool over the cars and pics of them but when you're racing, most of the time it's the enviornments you're seeing!

IMO environments are the last thing people look when racing. 90% of the polygon budget could go to rear-end of cars and 5% to environments and leftovers to make asphalt!

[RudeCurve]

I'm hoping they will have the legendary Mazda 787B Lemans racer as well as the Furai prototype. BTW for those who have access to SpeedTV, live Lemans coverage will start tomorrow.