[mrcorbo]

Originally Posted by tuna

I am not sure if all movies will work, I tend to try and not pirate movies anymore and can not rip bds either. But I used http streaming, but I do not see a reason why dlna should not work. It works fine for .ts and .m2ts files.

This is the part I haven't been able to find detailed instructions about. Can anyone point me to detailed info on the PS3's capabilities here. My Google-Fu is weak on this subject and all the links end up pointing to DLNA, which I already know how to use.

[mrcorbo]

Originally Posted by -tkf-

I have worked with alot of people and their computers over the past 25 years, and i can absolutely guarantee that the vast amount of people will find it easier to turn on a disc player or a PS3 (bit more of a challenge really) and pop in a disc than using a laptop.

Some just freeze if the hardware doesn´t do exactly as it´s supposed to do just one crash, one time that the PC doesn´t start like it should from sleeping and they are screwed. Any interface (PS3) that isn´t what they are used to will make them fumble. Of course there are plenty that will be above these small issues but the average user that i know of will not find a laptop the best way to watch movies.

The only way to make it work is a 100% solid, locked down software that just works. I often wondered why microsoft never was able to build this and really make it happen. I wouldn´t be surprised if Apple runs with everything again in this regard.

I'm actually not disputing this. But, I do think that the PC experience when performing basic operations is being presented as being more difficult than it actually is and is being presented as such by people who clearly have no first-hand experience of what that PC experience is actually like. And I also think that it's being argued that the PS3's theoretical advantage in one activity (playing BluRays) somehow trumps all of the things that the PC does notably better. Like streaming internet video, for example. The options that are available on both work better on the PC and the PC also has more options. And then there's just general web browsing where the PC is also infinitely better. Why are the applications where the PC is easier to set up and use not being considered?

[mrcorbo]

Originally Posted by Nesh

I am not sure what you are saying. But if I got it right, what you are saying is that people tend to settle with something that has less features than with a something that actually has more and rounded media features (like a HTPC or laptop). Right?

I'm more saying that people are doing this without knowing that they are doing it and questioning whether that lack of knowledge is deliberate. People feeling good about a choice they have made based on assumptions they have about an alternate choice may not want to know that their assumptions are wrong.

[Tahir2]

I think it is next to impossible to browse on the PS3 so agree that the PS3 is not the perfect all round media player. The PC does some things exceptionally well and will always. Even though we are coming to a time when "touch" OSes are in, nothing escapes the ease of typing on a keyboard compared to tapping a screen. No one is taking that away from the PC here as far as I can tell.
As to the PC being made to be more difficult than it is - well we take our knowledge for granted, just as the car mechanic takes making an oil change for granted or a plumber takes changing a radiator for granted. It is actually quite a difficult thing to use for a lot of things we may take for granted. You can acquire that knowledge for sure but I don't think you need to learn to press a button to make a Bluray or DVD play in the same fashion. There are most people who simply do not want to acquire the knowledge to download a program, setup multi-monitor display and then press PLAY.

Some of our knowledge is not deemed specialist (and that irks me sometimes) but it is still not widespread and doesn't need to be for the average consumer. nor will it ever be from my experiences (I work in tech support and also fix a lot of user PC's for friends/family in their own environment). They (average consumer) just want it to work.

Still don't understand what facts are being misrepresented? Sure some of the information here is subjective and anecdotal and if it was against the mainstream then CE devices would not be so easy to use... here is the caveat - IMHO and YMMV.

[mrcorbo]

Originally Posted by Tahir2

There are most people who simply do not want to acquire the knowledge to download a program, setup multi-monitor display and then press PLAY.

That's an example. though. Out of the box, you'd expect that a PC with a built-in BluRay drive would come pre-configured for BluRay playback. Usually you would just put the disc in and it would automatically launch the player app and begin playback. You wouldn't even have to press play!

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by mrcorbo

I'm more saying that people are doing this without knowing that they are doing it and questioning whether that lack of knowledge is deliberate. People feeling good about a choice they have made based on assumptions they have about an alternate choice may not want to know that their assumptions are wrong.

So now I'm incapable of considered opinion and, because my view differs from yours, it must be because I have blinders on supporting my purchasing choice?

Have you never done PC support for friends and family, and found people who can't install programs comfortably, can't cope with Window security features at all, don't know when to single-click and when to double-click, and don't know the difference between a webpage and a Word document? Among other things. For these people you end up setting up a few desktop icons for them to run and they never touch 90% of what their PC can actually do - simplicity is of value for them because they can't understand the whole thing. If you've never encounted that in your life, you must live in Silicon Valley of something!

Yes, PC offers a better media experience, because it can do everything. But the point is PC can do everything anyway, so why ever have any other devices?! Why isn't the world just full of PCs for DVD players and internet access etc.? Why are TVs now getting inbuilt Internet streaming with dumbed-down interfaces, when a PC connected up to a TV could work as a PVR as well, etc., etc.? Because PC's don't offer a safe, comfortable environment for Joe Public, and they would rather spend good money on having dumber, less capable machines that make things stupidly easy, than have a PC that does everything for a lot less money but which they can't use. Even if a PC can be set up that way as a closed box (and I dont think it can thanks to updates and security aspects), no-one is doing it and marketing that in a way that is showing Joe Public a PC is the best choice for all their entertainment needs. Media Center PCs have been around a while now, yet never threatened to command the living room as people have kept buying individual boxes to do the same, whic kinda proves the point.

As for myself, I bought a PS3 to play games and BRDs, a couple of years ago. Notice this thread started in 2008. How many BRD capable PCs were there back then? Are you saying I shouldn't have bothered, and should have saved my money until now to buy a BRD capable laptop? What would I be playing Uncharted 2 and LBP2 on then?! Having bought the PS3, it services my needs moderately well and was a great economy. YouTube playback is a bit pants, but it works. As do the channels for BBC, ITV and Channel 4. For people who rip their library to mass storage, neither console is particularly great, but those people are likely to be moderately computer savvy to know what a PC has to offer anyway, and they are in the minority versus the millions of console owners. This thread shows how people have been working with the DLNA services as best they can. FWIW PS3 recognises my Windows 7 laptop as a media server, but can't connect. I don't know what I need to do to connect it and can't be bothered to learn as it's of no use to me. So more features isn't always better.

But then I guess you have Stockholm Syndrome, and having bought a PC you can't see that there are benefits to other people of a different mindset because you are blinkered into supporting your purchase decision...

[Arwin]

Approve the PS3 as a DNLA consumer in Windows Media Player ... . I know you don't care, but hey.

[Nesh]

Adding to what Shifty said its not just more convenient for people who dont know much about PC's.
Its also more convenient for some that do know.
It is simply a matter of preference, what was their initial investment and how they want their room setup. Some dont mind having a PC connected always to the TV. In my case, in the same room, I have a network printer, a 360, 2 PS3's, a Home Theater, a desk with my logitech wheel and one laptop. It doesnt make any sense to have my laptop connected to my TV. There are a shitload of wires running behind my TV anyways. And my PC in the other room takes too much space to move it here anyways. So streaming from Laptop to TV through my consoles is ultra convenient

[tuna]

Originally Posted by joker454

The ps3 problem I had way back when was two fold. First, it would not properly stream mts and m2ts files over network, second it would not support hd audio formats at all. Those were the major problems. Additionally though you couldn't fast fordward properly. It was unuseable basically over network. It also doesn't support chapter stops, and I don't think subtitles worked either. I keep subtitles on movies like The Godfather, although I usually remove them. Anyways, I tried for a really long time to get the ps3 to be useable but it was far from it so I gave up. As far as I saw the ps3 was meant to be an sd media device only as it totally failed for me on hd media.

I have had no problem whatsoever streaming HD media over the network for the PS3 since I switched to ext4 as a file system. As for your other problems, I can not comment on those.

[tuna]

Originally Posted by mrcorbo

This is the part I haven't been able to find detailed instructions about. Can anyone point me to detailed info on the PS3's capabilities here. My Google-Fu is weak on this subject and all the links end up pointing to DLNA, which I already know how to use.

Set up web server (I used apache/httpd). Make sure it recognizes video files as video. Point default to video folder. Use PS3 browser to find the web server. Click on video file.

[mrcorbo]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

So now I'm incapable of considered opinion and, because my view differs from yours, it must be because I have blinders on supporting my purchasing choice?

Have you never done PC support for friends and family, and found people who can't install programs comfortably, can't cope with Window security features at all, don't know when to single-click and when to double-click, and don't know the difference between a webpage and a Word document? Among other things. For these people you end up setting up a few desktop icons for them to run and they never touch 90% of what their PC can actually do - simplicity is of value for them because they can't understand the whole thing. If you've never encounted that in your life, you must live in Silicon Valley of something!

Yes, PC offers a better media experience, because it can do everything. But the point is PC can do everything anyway, so why ever have any other devices?! Why isn't the world just full of PCs for DVD players and internet access etc.? Why are TVs now getting inbuilt Internet streaming with dumbed-down interfaces, when a PC connected up to a TV could work as a PVR as well, etc., etc.? Because PC's don't offer a safe, comfortable environment for Joe Public, and they would rather spend good money on having dumber, less capable machines that make things stupidly easy, than have a PC that does everything for a lot less money but which they can't use. Even if a PC can be set up that way as a closed box (and I dont think it can thanks to updates and security aspects), no-one is doing it and marketing that in a way that is showing Joe Public a PC is the best choice for all their entertainment needs. Media Center PCs have been around a while now, yet never threatened to command the living room as people have kept buying individual boxes to do the same, whic kinda proves the point.

As for myself, I bought a PS3 to play games and BRDs, a couple of years ago. Notice this thread started in 2008. How many BRD capable PCs were there back then? Are you saying I shouldn't have bothered, and should have saved my money until now to buy a BRD capable laptop? What would I be playing Uncharted 2 and LBP2 on then?! Having bought the PS3, it services my needs moderately well and was a great economy. YouTube playback is a bit pants, but it works. As do the channels for BBC, ITV and Channel 4. For people who rip their library to mass storage, neither console is particularly great, but those people are likely to be moderately computer savvy to know what a PC has to offer anyway, and they are in the minority versus the millions of console owners. This thread shows how people have been working with the DLNA services as best they can. FWIW PS3 recognises my Windows 7 laptop as a media server, but can't connect. I don't know what I need to do to connect it and can't be bothered to learn as it's of no use to me. So more features isn't always better.

But then I guess you have Stockholm Syndrome, and having bought a PC you can't see that there are benefits to other people of a different mindset because you are blinkered into supporting your purchase decision...

I don't know where the disconnect happened but somewhere the discussion veered off the initial path and I think that maybe rolling things back a bit it may be possible to find some common ground.

My initial comment was clearly made to describe *my* experience and was based on how *I* wanted to be able access media.

The references I made to Joe Public not using a PC as a media hub because they don't know it can be used for that is being made in the context that by even wanting to use the extended capabilities of these media playback devices, they have already separated themselves from the general population of users. Of these users, some number have the technical skill to at least maintain a PC in working order, which is all the skill that is required to overcome the issues that a complete technophobe might have. If you have a computer in your house, and manage to not break it regularly, than you have the level of knowledge necessary to operate a properly-configured HTPC. This was not always the case, but there has been a steady evolution of the user experience both on the hardware and software side. The standardization around HDMI has been hugely important in this area.

Having said that, set-up can be problematic sometimes, which I have said multiple times in my various responses. The internet, though, is a great resource and it's pretty easy to find step-by-step guides for getting all of this working and solutions for the common problems you might experience since someone, somewhere, has probably already encountered, and found a fix for, the issue(s) already.

The misrepresentation I was being so irritated by was in the specific details showing how it was more difficult do some basic functions with a PC that were flat out wrong. Things don't work that way *in a properly configured HTCP*. Since I had repeatedly stated the importance of a correct setup I took it as a given that that was the context in which the comparisons were being made.

[mrcorbo]

Originally Posted by tuna

Set up web server (I used apache/httpd). Make sure it recognizes video files as video. Point default to video folder. Use PS3 browser to find the web server. Click on video file.

Thanks. I don't think I'll be doing this (I don't gain anything) but it's nice to know just in case.

[AzBat]

In my quest to find a nice cloud storage alternative to Dropbox, I found a device & software system called Pogoplug. They call it a personal cloud since it allows you to connect any kind of USB storage to the device & then make those files available via the web(publicly or privately). Basically it's a Linux-based NAS that uses user-added USB storage. Evidently it will allow you to stream media content to both the Xbox 360 & PS3 via DLNA services. I don't have a use for the video streaming part since I don't download or create any kind of video content, but I thought you guys might be interested in that. BTW, they also have iPhone/iPad, Android, Blackberry, Mac & Linux apps. There also other hardware choices too like the Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Net & Buffalo CloudStor NAS(1TB or 2TB). I'll probably go with the latter when I get the cash. I'm wanting to make my music, photos & other documents available to my laptop(or any other device) while on the go. Unfortunately the setup still doesn't give me a better alternative to using PlayOn to watch Hulu on my 360. I really need some kind of Linux app for that since I really wanting to ditch Windows XP for my new OS of choice: Joli OS 1.2. I'm pretty much completely on the cloud now & have no use for Windows at home. PlayOn is basically my last app on Windows that's holding me back from going Windows free.

Tommy McClain

[jeff_rigby]

Interesting 2011 projects for supporting media on Game consoles:

DLNA

Better DLNA server for Xbox coming from MS via their OS platforms?
Sony to sponsor a better DLNA server for PC, other platforms like the below?

PoGo Plug (above thread) is a partial solution to MS and lack of do it all DLNA servers. Hulu plus fills a gap left open by current hardware and software but provides more. Qriocity fills another gap left open but provides more access to music.

DLNAMagicTranscoding

Rygel is a (linux, may eventually be ported to a Network server) home media solution that allows you to easily share audio, video and pictures, and control of media player on your home network. In technical terms it is both a UPnP AV MediaServer and MediaRenderer implemented through a plug-in mechanism (Gstreamer). Interoperability with other devices in the market is achieved by conformance to very strict requirements of DLNA and on the fly conversion of media to format that client devices are capable of handling.

For a starters there is plenty of DLNA/UPnP devices already out in the market these days: Sony Playstation 3, Nokia's series60 and maemo-based phones, Microsoft XBox 360 (not even real UPnP device (by design, makes it harder for the user to configure a PS3 to use MS DLNA) but we must support it due to high demand), DLNA speakers?, Sony Bravia TV and some other DLNA TVs from Sony & Samsung. Moreoever, the number of DLNA devices in the market is expected to grow and not shrink.

And there is a standard for Cable TV boxes to support DLNA on home coax and home network. Xbox has a custom version (by design it does not support the PS3), PS3 to follow?

Infra Red Control of Home Theater Accessories No PS3 or Xbox support built-in

Inexpensive IR kit (receive only) for Xbox available, no IR Kit for PS3

Lirc or Linux Infra Red remote control will probably be used with the Sony S1 which is supposed to have a IR transmitter and ?receiver? http://www.lirc.org/ Sony S1 used as a universal remote controller for the home theater? S1 with remote desktop for PS3 and more control over home theater CEC via the PS3?, more control of Sony sponsored DLNA server?, D-bus fling to PS3?

HDMI CEC Supported by the PS3 ?Xbox?

PS3 slim can fully support CEC, features limited at this time. Full user configurable script coming? Doesn't need IR remote but all Home Theater must support CEC. Third party accessory to convert HDMI CEC to IR for non-CEC hardware?

Consumer Electronics Control (CEC) is a feature designed to allow the user to command and control two or more CEC-enabled boxes, that are connected through HDMI, by using only one of their remote controls. (e.g. controlling a Television set, Set-top box and DVD player using only the remote control of the TV). CEC also allow for individual CEC-enabled devices to command and control each other without user intervention.[82]

It is a one-wire bidirectional serial bus that uses the industry-standard AV.link protocol to perform remote control functions. CEC wiring is mandatory, although implementation of CEC in a product is optional.[70] It was defined in HDMI Specification 1.0 and updated in HDMI 1.2, HDMI 1.2a and HDMI 1.3a (which added timer and audio commands to the bus).[83][82][84][85]
Trade names for CEC are Anynet+ (Samsung); Aquos Link (Sharp); BRAVIA Sync (Sony); HDMI-CEC (Hitachi); Kuro Link (Pioneer); CE-Link and Regza Link (Toshiba); RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) (Onkyo); SimpLink (LG); HDAVI Control, EZ-Sync, VIERA Link (Panasonic); EasyLink (Philips); and NetCommand for HDMI (Mitsubishi).[86][87][88][89][90]

HTML5

Xbox360 no browser, HTML5 support for ESPN3 shown, more support coming with Silverlight5. DRM and ultraviolet DRM available (playready)

PS3 limited support for applications via HTML5 javascript engine for UI (PS3 firmware 3.5) and Gstreamer adaptive streaming player. Full support missing (shell needed) and IPTV applications provide much of their own support (Netflix ported QT Webkit). More support coming with a full "Generic Webkit port based on Cairo". PS3 Gstreamer will allow the HTML5 <video> tag to support WebM or H.264 automatically. No open source Ultraviolet DRM but DRM aware Gstreamer plugins available. DRM is a big issue for everyone not Microsoft and Google's purchase of Widevine may have an open source ultraviolet DRM available before October. Or you use Flash and not the HTML5 <video> tag and have to support plugins which use more memory resulting in fewer resources for the web browser.

Edit: The coming PS3 webkit may not support Flash. Flash by Adobe's own statements is going to give way to HTML5.

Blu-ray player PS3 yes, Xbox 360 no

Max Video resolutions supported

All PS3 1080P, PS3 Slim 1080P with high freq noise. With software update the PS3 can display 4K res (RSX-Cell used by Sony for 4K editing)

Xbox latest hardware and software 1080P

Tos Optical audio out

PS3 yes
Xbox latest hardware yes

Lossless audio out via HDMI

PS3 yes except for blu-ray 3-D (all Sony equipment same, may be a driver issue to be corrected on PS3?)
Xbox no

3-D output formats supported

Xbox (custom by game developer all) Blu-ray 3-D none
PS3 (custom by game developer all) by Sony only HDMI 1.4 (both game and blu-ray) again may be a provider and standards issue, Gstreamer player only supports HDMI 1.4 standard. (some limits for All, some output formats not supported)

At the PS3 AV core (and most Sony CE & embedded) is Gstreamer: gstreamer features Highly modular with 200 plugins. Easy for Sony to include new features without having to rewrite a core player. Open source Plugins become available tracking the CE industry. Last one was adaptive streaming and now WebM. gstreamer plugins

Knowing how the PS3 AV stream works we can predict what might be possible/coming. Also see Collabora projects: http://www.collabora.co.uk/

[jonabbey]

N/M

[patsu]

Have you guys tried www.crackle.com on the PS3 web browser ? There are hundreds of full length SD streaming movies you can view for free now (I didn't try other channels). It's ads sponsored. I watched some dubbed foreign films on it a few days ago.

[patsu]

Does the new YouTube live streaming work on PS3 ?

[patsu]

Tried it. Doesn't quite work on PS3. 8^/

EDIT:
Music Unlimited coming to PSP this Thursday:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2011/04/0...g-to-your-psp/

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by patsu

Tried it. Doesn't quite work on PS3. 8^/

EDIT:
Music Unlimited coming to PSP this Thursday:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2011/04/0...g-to-your-psp/

Great. Yet another way for a sony service to tell me not available in your country.

[patsu]

Wait a minute, it's 14th today. Where is ma PSP Music Unlimited ?

I don't see any post on the PS Blog.

EDIT: 15th ! Oh where oh where is my unlimited music ?

[Npl]

Stupid question that nagging me for a while:
Anyone knows why the PS3 is not upscaling SD Content from Bluray? It just switches the TV to 480p.
Cant think of any technical (or other) reason why it should be doing this.

[Gradthrawn]

Originally Posted by Npl

Stupid question that nagging me for a while:
Anyone knows why the PS3 is not upscaling SD Content from Bluray? It just switches the TV to 480p.
Cant think of any technical (or other) reason why it should be doing this.

I believe it was mentioned a while ago in some translated interview that the BD, DVD, and HDD media apps each have independent feature sets, and that they roll features out to the HDD app first, and then slowly move up the chain. Of course, they don't always get all the way up the chain, but that's probably a resource allocation/management issue, rather than a technical one.

[NavNucST3]

Netflix Kinect is such a backwards implementation. Why in the world would some think that "Suggestions..." would be the only thing we would want to use? Not being able to voice/gesture control my queue is baffling...if HuluPlus is going to have this same implementation then I'll have zero interest in it [kinect hub version].

[patsu]

Hulu, Miramax deal means Netflix, Hulu Plus both add Pulp Fiction and more starting today:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/h...d-pulp-fictio/

According to a blog post and press release (after the break) Hulu is bringing Miramax films to its free and paid Hulu Plus services. This is also the same day the Miramax deal kicks in for Netflix, so both just added notable movies including Clerks, Swingers, Basquiat, The Crow and Reservoir Dogs. Miramax movies on Hulu Plus are presented ad-free and in HD, just like on Netflix Watch Instantly, and both appear to have the same selection available, although one negative side effect of parity is that neither has optional closed captions on streaming for any of them.

...

[Nesh]

Although I find my PS3 much easier to navigate through scenes and the menu options much better than the 360's I have noticed that my 360 often plays some movie content that my PS3 doesnt but not the other way round. Sometimes it even downloads something, probably some codecs, to play them,