[Rolf N]

Originally Posted by patsu

About Ostrava:

You have to save Ostrava *everytime* you replay 1-1. If you ignored him like I did, he'd die by the enemies' hands eventually. Then he'd leave behind an important key. You need to pick it up. If he was still alive, he would appear in subsequent levels to help you fight. You'd still get the key later in the game even if you kept him alive in 1-1.

That shouldn't be an issue on your first playthrough. He can pretty much mow down any enemy in his (set, limited) path, including the blue-eyed knight.

It only becomes in issue in New Game+(+++...) because enemies get stronger, and Ostrava may not. Take that with a grain of salt as well though. To me it seems that the NPCs strength in NG+ has been bumped up by one of the patches.

Now an actual spoiler about Ostrava: He reappears in 1-2 and 1-3, again asking for your assistance. And just like 1-1, he'll be in the level again when you reenter, facing freshly spawned opposition. The enemies in 1-3 can indeed kill him if left unchecked.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by Rolf N

That shouldn't be an issue on your first playthrough. He can pretty much mow down any enemy in his (set, limited) path, including the blue-eyed knight.

It only becomes in issue in New Game+(+++...) because enemies get stronger, and Ostrava may not. Take that with a grain of salt as well though. To me it seems that the NPCs strength in NG+ has been bumped up by one of the patches.

Bu... bu.. but, I found his ring among a group of Dreglings in a courtyard. Most of them were hurt and Ostrava was nowhere to be seen. I am guessing he must have died there.

Now an actual spoiler about Ostrava: He reappears in 1-2 and 1-3, again asking for your assistance. And just like 1-1, he'll be in the level again when you reenter, facing freshly spawned opposition. The enemies in 1-3 can indeed kill him if left unchecked.

In my case, he will no longer show up right ? Will I see him again ? That would be great.

[2real4tv]

I was trying to wait for the toys-r-us deal but I am hearing they don't carry it. I will probably get this today. Won't have too much time to play thou between school and work.

[oramay]

Originally Posted by patsu

Bu... bu.. but, I found his ring among a group of Dreglings in a courtyard. Most of them were hurt and Ostrava was nowhere to be seen. I am guessing he must have died there.

The same thing happened in my game as well. I haven't seen him since. I'm playing through this game for the first time.

[patsu]

I thought you played it before ?

It seems that the game may have sold out in US:
http://www.justpusahstart.com/2009/1...ouls-sold-out/

If you still have not had a chance to purchase Atlus’ PS3 exclusive RPG Demon’s Souls, you will probably have a hard time getting it now since most GameStop and Best Buy stores around most area are sold out! Calling numerous GameStop stores across the nation, they’ve stated that Demon’s Souls is sold out and has been since its release last Tuesday.

The article clarified that they didn't check online stores. Hope Atlus can confirm/deny the news, and print more !


EDIT: I sneaked to 4-1, got the Crescent Falcion. Now back at 1-2 to cross the dragon bridge. Had to leave half way to pick up my family. Told them daddy needed some time at work. ^_^
I only got 1 hour of playtime though. That sucks !

[patsu]

Yemeth, when is your game coming ? We should arrange for a co-op via the chat room.

I want to show you this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...ostcount=11386

Originally Posted by thaOwner

This guy has been playing for about 30 hours straight now and he just couldn't stop. he's finally fallen asleep and even in his sleep, he is still playing the game.

http://www.justin.tv/ambiient

I shit you not. You can hear him snoring in the background.

It's true ! I went there and he was still snoring. So funny.

EDIT: Ah, he woke up and started to play another game.

If you like RPG, Demon's Souls can be addicitive. Might want to plan your schedule ahead of time.

[Schaden]

Originally Posted by patsu

If you like RPG, Demon's Souls can be addicitive. Might want to plan your schedule ahead of time.

After you die, it's so hard to walk away. You want to keep pushing a little farther.

[patsu]

Yes... the Souls are hard earned currency. Makes me want to go back to reclaim them all the time. I couldn't resist picking up loot too even if it's the most inappropriate time... like having a dragon breathing down fire behind me. I broke my run to check a treasure. Almost got myself killed.

The guy above has started to play again. Too bad I missed how he killed the False King . When I hopped back on, he delivered the final blow.

[Antan]

Still waiting for it to land 8(

[warcrow]

This game is incredible--in more ways than one--and I have a lot to say about that. I plan on writing something much meatier on my blog because I have several thoughts I'd like to flesh out, but for now I'll spill some thoughts here.

I'm now convinced that to really enjoy this game, and to appreciate it's design, you have to be fully aware of what you're getting into. At it's core, DS is an unmerciful, cleverly crafted challenge that forces you to consider your every move. If that move is mis-stepped, it will be unrelenting in it's punishment to you, and the outcome will always be fair. Why is that? Because when you die in Demon's Souls it's almost a guarantee it's because you either used a poor strategy, did not paying well enough attention to the hints given to you by the game or fellow players or just slipped up.

See, I'm the type of guy who does not tollerate cheap, unapologetic BS in games. I embarrassingly recall a horrid incident playing Burnout 3 last year where I was so boiled over with frustration that I physically twisted my DualShock controller, cracking it near the middle and braking the circuit board inside rendering it useless (clearly a stupid, expensive reaction on my part)! It wasnt specifically because I lost a race (I've lost a lot of races in the game), but it was the WAY I lost the race that drove me completely over the edge. The details here are not important--what is important is the fact that I felt totally cheated by the game. Though I'm not proud of the way I handled the situation (read: very poorly) it's an example of what my absolute worst side looks like when I'm at the end of my rope, feeling totally cheated by poor design. (BTW, the example I'm giving has only happened two or three times in my entire life, this is not a common occurance!)

I'm siteing the above reaction because I never once came close to feeling that way with DS. The way DS treats you is expected and always fair. It might take hindsight to discover your follies (at least in my experience it did), but it's there. It's a smartly designed game with a TON of "tough love" for you so you have to be ready. If you even mess up even once with your hand in the cookie jar in the later levels you will get your hand slapped! It's completely unappologetically and sometimes proving that in one hit. That's right, and you will lose hours and hours of your concerted efforts at the flick of the AI's wrist. Everything you've accomplished in a specific stage (except for the deaths of min-bosses and bosses) will be gone. But to be more specific, you will lose the sinlge most important item in the game--Souls--which are not only the currency in the game, but also used to level your character. You will dip your head down in despair, loosen your grip on the controller as squeezing your eyes shut regreting that extra swing. Yea you probably should have blocked instread.

Some of you are undoubtedly asking yourself why would one do this, and I think I can answer that--it's because DS is a gaming experience that invokes emotions I've not felt in a very very long time. Too general of an answer? Ok fair enough.

Demon's Souls forces you to think very intently about every move you make. Simple thinks like rounding a corner in God of War become an adventure in DS. Something like that could have severe consequences so dire you lose a substantial amount of progression--it's no joke. Even more interesting is as you get deeper into the game the stakes are raised and the intensity of progression increases. At the end of the first I had the game I found my jaw aching because I was gritting my teeth while I was playing--kind of funny. Fighting the common demons can be intense but it's the boss fights--that also are radiating with creativity and amazing design--that will have you on the edge of your seat. If you havent fully grasped the situation yet let me help--if you die in a boss battle you must restart the level from the beginning with all creatues respawned and your Souls missing. HOWEVER, the game does give you one chance to gather those lost Souls. As you make your way back through the same stage, there will be a pool of blood at the spot where you died giving you a chance to get all your lost Souls back--but that's the only chance you get. If you die on the way you're screwed.

Cheap? Perhaps to some, and it's fair enough for them to feel that way, but for me it has never been. After dying I always figured out a way I could have handled it better, and so I did and I pressed forward. There is so much more I would like to talk about, but I'm out of time for now...more later! Hope this makes sense.

[patsu]

warcrow... like Rolf N, I'm having trouble writing a satisfactory impression of Demon's Souls here. I wrote up 3 impressions but had to can them midway. The game is a little counter intuitive. ^_^

All I can say right now is that the combat is unreal. The regular enemies are fun to fight. e.g., I have seen skeleton fighters since age 8 or so. None of them tensed me up like the ones in the Shrine of Storm.

The Skeleton soldier in Demon's Souls scares me because it is extremely lethal. Besides waiting in the open, they also hide around corners and dark places. When they attack, they lunge forward with full force, roll around with blades extended, break my guard with two handed long sword, and knock me out of stamina completely. All these can happen in quick succession from an almost stationary stance (like a dummy). They are fast; if they land a blow on me, it is very likely they can score a second hit again.

When combined with more monsters, the fight becomes incredibly exciting.

Every encounter has to be thought through. Every new battlefield should be studied carefully first with your own bare eyes (as much as you can see). The booby traps are there in plain sight if you evaluate the surrounding carefully. The blood stains and the messages are there to warn you. Once you trigger the fight (other than an ambush), there is very little time to think. The outcome may be over in a matter of seconds. It is between you and the monsters + traps. Nothing else stands in-between. You will die if you lose concentration or patience.


That is why my hands are cold with anxiety and anticipation *before* launching into Demon's Souls. I love this game !

Repeating every fight can get tedious, but the visceral combat alleviates it somewhat. In some areas, there are also shortcuts you can unlock. Since I'm starting out, I usually take the long path to get more practices.

My next mission is to kill the red dragon with 200 arrows. It's optional but since every combat reward is hard earned, it makes the special equipments all that much precious to me. As we speak, I'm organizing my real-life logistics to clear 2 hours of playtime for my adventure tonight

EDIT:
And about losing Souls when you die... it's a gamble. The player can always choose to go home, or take alternate route if he's not confident. But when he decides to step forward, he is committed. There is zero way to back paddle. All those posts you see on GAF "FUUUUUUUUU [Monster name], I lost 80K !!!" are left by people who bet their farm on it, and lost. [points at them, "Ha Hah !"]

[Yemeth]

Nice write ups you two! *jumping around in anxiety for the arrival of DS*

warcrow, I can understand where you come from I have the exact same feelings about design.

I am extremely glad that this "I want to make a great game, don't care what is currently 'in'" approach was succesfull for From Software and their publishers; so there is still hope that we can have a bit variety in game design/better approach...

E.g. GTA 4 had so many poorly designed things (from the below average controls to laughable mission design) that I was furious at the designers, not because the game is hard but because it is poor (it even hurts me more that overhyped games like that are on the PS3 top of Metacritic (not to mention Assassin's Creed, the Shadow of the Beast game of this century - nice graphic/forget the rest).

If Heavy Rain manages to convey half of the emotions that Demon's Soul managed (without ever being mentioned by the designers or publishers) then it has done what David Cage wanted already .

I am forcing myself not to read any spoilers, not watching any more videos nor reading the postings on Atlus/GAF because some stupid posters post spoilers without tags (so the ending is half ruined for me already), but reading the thoughts here makes me want to play the game even more.

I am looking forward to read more of your opinions on Demon's Souls...

Anyway, as an end to this posting without any coherent thought, this game (altough I have yet to play it ) reminds me of the fantastic Severance - Blade of Darkness; anyone played it here? There was also every fight a possible end, no pushover enemies found in it .

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M--_gxoyo-4

Cheers

P.s.: Patsu, I'm already planning my weekends in my head to play co-op with you; so talk about life priorities .

[patsu]

Now that I wrote the above post in a spur of the moment... I realized that Demon's Souls is like a casino. The whole thing works on gambling principles.

As warcrow highlighted, the rules of engagement, risks and odds of survival are all laid out up front. Everyone knows that the odds favors the house. The game is set up such that the system is "fair".

The player basically drag his hard earned $$$ along, and bet it in every encounter/deal. The stake increases as the player forges ahead, so much so that he becomes more and more vested/nervous. The tension also builds on the knowledge that the odds is against the player. Even if you replay the encounter after a death, your health is halved to compensate for the fore-knowledge of the setup. Not to mention the enemies are tough to begin with.

Then when you lose a pot, the game gives you "one chance" to recover your last bet. This is preying on gamblers' psychology.

Some players pool together to try to beat the house (There's where co-op comes in).

Others prey on weaker players to rob them of their currency (Black Phantoms)


The key difference is: Demon's Souls is based mostly on skills instead of chances (So may be it's more like dog fighting between different weight class). Hence the RPG skills and equipments ladders fit very well with the game. Because it's based on skills in a lobesided fight, you have to concentrate on the battle (and be patient -- keep your cool !). This is totally different from dice-rolling in paper D&D games.

The other thing is Demon's Souls has fantastic art direction and style. I love their character design, art work and voice over (e.g., I perked up when the Maiden in Black went, "Touch the demon inside me" in British accent ). Her voice is the only source of hope/entertainment in the dreadful Boletaria.

[specwarGP2]

so what are the graphics and framerate like? I've read some conflicting things which is holding me back from pulling the trigger on a purchase.

[Schaden]

Frame rate drops occasionally, especially as a mage. Not enough to bother me really, but I have seen it happen occasionally.

Graphics are well done IMO. It's not Cryis, but for an rpg, it looks impressive to me. Especially the boss battles. Each dungeon world is large and atmospheric.

If you end up liking the gameplay, I can't imagine these issues holding you back. Rent it at least and see what you think.

[oramay]

Originally Posted by Schaden

Frame rate drops occasionally, especially as a mage. Not enough to bother me really, but I have seen it happen occasionally.

Graphics are well done IMO. It's not Cryis, but for an rpg, it looks impressive to me. Especially the boss battles. Each dungeon world is large and atmospheric.

If you end up liking the gameplay, I can't imagine these issues holding you back. Rent it at least and see what you think.

I second that. Whether you like this game or not will not be hanging on the occasional framerate drops. It'll be mostly about the gameplay.

It has been said a lot already that this game is brutal, but it's not just about the risk of losing souls and being thrown back to the beginning of a level on death. The game saves after every little thing you do and does not allow the possibility of backing up a save. If you accidentally push an attack button next to an important NPC, you may lose his help (learning magic, storing items etc.) for the rest of the game and there is no going back. It also means it's costly to experiment with upgrades.

I once accidentally knocked the only supplier of hard arrows (which I use a lot) off a ledge. I was just cleaning my controller and didn't know which button I triggered. The NPC was asking what I was doing but haven't started attacking me yet. Still, I was really scared and turn off the power immediately and hope nothing bad has been saved. It turned out ok but at the time, I felt totally deflated about the possibility of having messed up the rest of my game. It's much much worse than losing souls which I've also lost a lot throughout the game.

Right now, I know a shield in my possession can replenish HP but have yet to see any details about exactly how much faster it can do that if I upgrade it with a rare item. I don't want to work it out myself because this game saves every costly experiment you attempt. I guess I'll never know whether it's worth upgrading or not.

Overall, I enjoy my time with this game (only area 1-4 left now), apart from the moments when I feel the full force of its unforgiving nature.

[SonComet]

OK, all the impressions here have finally pushed me over the edge. I ordered this. I'm going to give it a try after The Ballad of Gay Tony and A Crack in Time. Those 2 games were going to be my last 2 of the year, but not anymore .

[Carl B]

Awesome game - that's my one line contribution to this thread for the moment!

[Scott_Arm]

I thought this was some crappy jrpg with turn based combat. Turns out I'm wrong.

One question I have about the online: Can you turn off the feature that allows others to enter your game and kill you, and still play online with friends?

Basically, I want to be able to play the game with some friends and not have to worry about some mega powerful asshole jumping in and slaughtering us.

[Carl B]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

One question I have about the online: Can you turn off the feature that allows others to enter your game and kill you, and still play online with friends?

No.

[Scott_Arm]

Originally Posted by Carl B

No.

That's actually a huge turnoff for me. Kind of disappointing because the game looks great. Unfortunately it'll turn into a huge griefing fest for new players, from the way it sounds.

[Carl B]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

That's actually a huge turnoff for me. Kind of disappointing because the game looks great. Unfortunately it'll turn into a huge griefing fest for new players, from the way it sounds.

Also no. But it's hard to explain why. For myself for instance the vast majority of my playtime thus far has been in 'dead' form, which renders you immune from any sort of external invasion. Of which the worst that happens is you 'die' anyway.

If it were an issue you'd hear more talk about it; for myself it hasn't happened even once.

Beyond that though, you should know that there's really no way to coordinate ending up playing with a friend unless you do some very tight coordinating; it's not traditional co-op or anything like that.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the game.

More general question for the players out there: I increase my magic strength, but it's hard to see the effect on my spells - is the damage increasing?

[Scott_Arm]

I guess I thought it worked like Fable 2, because it seems to be a greatly advanced version of what Fable 2 was doing. Not being able to play with your friends in a game with co-op is kind of strange. I think I need to find a better writeup on how the multi player component works.

[Carl B]

The best way to think of it, is that there essentially is no multi-player component; but there *is* a network component. Other players around the world and such are able to subtly influence your game - very rarely directly - and probably most importantly at the beginning, they're able to leave you hints on how to progress, and likewise you them.

I mean it's hard to explain like I said, but best not to look at it as multi-player at all.

[Scott_Arm]

Originally Posted by Carl B

The best way to think of it, is that there essentially is no multi-player component; but there *is* a network component. Other players around the world and such are able to subtly influence your game - very rarely directly - and probably most importantly at the beginning, they're able to leave you hints on how to progress, and likewise you them.

I mean it's hard to explain like I said, but best not to look at it as multi-player at all.

I thought they could come into your world and kill you to steal your demon souls or something?

Edit: Ok, I reread the eurogamer review and I think I understand how it works more.