[kagemaru]

Originally Posted by Kasersky

more gpu resources better results. there are alot of higher quality presets for fxaa. so deus ex human revolution is the first console game to have fxaa

I was just thinking the same thing. Hope Al or DF can confirm this soon. I'd love to get the game tonight at a midnight launch, but I'm not sure which version to get. Wish there was some kind of performance analysis available.

[Shifty Geezer]

Tech discussion moved here.

[Gitaroo]

anyone check the body count demo on PS3? Looks sub hd + custom AA, or MLAA.

[AlStrong]

DE:HR does seem to be FXAA on 360, MLAA on PS3. Both 720p.

[Beef Stallmer]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

DE:HR does seem to be FXAA on 360, MLAA on PS3. Both 720p.

Are you sure about the FXAA? Seems more like a blur filter to me (not only the edges are blurred in the direct feed screenshots)

[kagemaru]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

DE:HR does seem to be FXAA on 360, MLAA on PS3. Both 720p.

That's interesting, I always thought MLAA would do a better job with the jaggies, but most impressions seem to indicate the opposite. Thanks Al.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Beef Stallmer

Seems more like a blur filter to me (not only the edges are blurred in the direct feed screenshots)

We can debate all day about what "blur" and "post-AA" really means, especially for single-sample per pixel. You may also want to think about what an edge means in your context versus a shader program evaluating pixel patterns.

[Ruskie]

I thought AA method in 360 version got rid of the aliasing pretty well.Certainly it broke in some instances and some edges didn't receive any but it was pretty smooth.Surprised that MLAA looked so alike,FXAA seemed bit better in fact.

[AlStrong]

I should note my disapproval of naming the particular post-AA method based off of images. It's going to be extremely difficult to just look at the edge blur and say... that's such and such. And really, it's just silly. For the purpose of the thread, I'd say it's enough just to call it a post-AA filter and describe its characteristics in motion or with certain sub-pixel issues.

For all I know, they're using a different FXAA setting on PS3, but the behaviour there does seem to indicate MLAA.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

I should note my disapproval of naming the particular post-AA method based off of images. It's going to be extremely difficult to just look at the edge blur and say... that's such and such. And really, it's just silly. For the purpose of the thread, I'd say it's enough just to call it a post-AA filter and describe its characteristics in motion or with certain sub-pixel issues.

For all I know, they're using a different FXAA setting on PS3, but the behaviour there does seem to indicate MLAA.

Really? imho it's really a bizzare use of MLAA... not remember an MLAA so 'soft' & jaggies in the gross edges... in any game that use it. PS. Never mind, now I have understood what do you mean: MLAA how detected & FXAA to cover the jaggies.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

That's interesting, I always thought MLAA would do a better job with the jaggies, but most impressions seem to indicate the opposite. Thanks Al.

Well, I don't know how technically valid are my impressions, but MLAAproperly used from what I have seen until now in a lot of games, generally works 'better' of FXAA (probably for its cost) in cover & even artifact, at least in motions; subpixels a part.

[Gitaroo]

so the subtle blur also make sense on 360? Even on PC with the new FXAA injection method, all the games get subtle blur running on higher resolution than 720p. I remember the member here I forgot his named, works for Sony ATG I think said their MLAA implementation doesn't blur any texture detail. Makes me wonder how much resource is needed for MLAA on PS3 now, cant be still as expensive as GOW3. Must be a hell lot cheaper now.

[KKRT]

Originally Posted by Gitaroo

so the subtle blur also make sense on 360? Even on PC with the new FXAA injection method, all the games get subtle blur running on higher resolution than 720p. I remember the member here I forgot his named, works for Sony ATG I think said their MLAA implementation doesn't blur any texture detail. Makes me wonder how much resource is needed for MLAA on PS3 now, cant be still as expensive as GOW3. Must be a hell lot cheaper now.

In last slides from AA Course they said 5% of SPU time for 30hz.

[kagemaru]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

For the purpose of the thread, I'd say it's enough just to call it a post-AA filter and describe its characteristics in motion or with certain sub-pixel issues.

Yeah you're right.

Originally Posted by assurdum

PS. Never mind, now I have understood what do you mean: MLAA how detected & FXAA to cover the jaggies.

I don't think that's what he meant at all. He said he believed it's MLAA due to the behavior of the post-AA, though it could be FXAA with different settings.

The point of mentioning this was to show how muddy it can get when trying to determine what type of post process AA filter is being used.

At least that's what I got from that comment.

Originally Posted by assurdum

Well, I don't know how technically valid are my impressions, but MLAAproperly used from what I have seen until now in a lot of games, generally works 'better' of FXAA (probably for its cost) in cover & even artifact, at least in motions; subpixels a part.

Wasn't just going off of your impressions, generally everyone I've talked to has echoed this opinion.

No need to defend MLAA, the difference isn't huge, and I was just making an observation.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Yeah you're right.



I don't think that's what he meant at all. He said he believed it's MLAA due to the behavior of the post-AA, though it could be FXAA with different settings.

The point of mentioning this was to show how muddy it can get when trying to determine what type of post process AA filter is being used.

At least that's what I got from that comment.



Wasn't just going off of your impressions, generally everyone I've talked to has echoed this opinion.

No need to defend MLAA, the difference isn't huge, and I was just making an observation.

Not huge, never said that & isn't just echoed opinion, when NVIDIA has released this solution, I'd expected something better in terms of artifact compromises, how they claims; but from what we seen, in motion FXAA is even less stable & more shimmer. Of course, it's enough good, cheap, smart, it's no matter to prove how is better from the two, but to me it's just to recognize how works, no more.

[kagemaru]

Originally Posted by assurdum

Huge not, never said that & isn't just echoed opinion, how NVIDIA has released this solution I'd expected something better in terms of artifact compromises, how they claims; but from what we seen, in motion FXAA is even less stable & more shimmer. Of course, it's cheap, it's smart, it's no matter to proves how is better from the two, but to me it's just to recognize how works, no more.

Not sure I understand everything you're trying to say here, but let's just agree to disagree

Edit:

Though I do notice some shimmering while moving around on the 360 version.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Not sure I understand everything you're trying to say here, but let's just agree to disagree

OK. I have just said FXAA not solve definetely the MLAA limits, to the opposite, except subpixels part.

[Gitaroo]

not even sub pixel part, using it on PC it just looks like it is blurring everything in a distance/subpixel. I ran the highest quality U3 gamescon video with VLC player + fxaa injection (I know its not as good as real implementation) all sub pixel stuffs looks like it just got blurred. Same with all the PC games.

here an example of all the AA from the game on PC

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articl...UWGY_3_1_l.png

[Kasersky]

i've been playing around with the mlaa setting on the pc version looking specifically at things with high contrast edges like ebooks and bright lettering and going very low pixel range. the typical kind of artifacting you get with mlaa in worst case. then i looked at the ps3 version and it didnt have the same kind of artifacting under the same conditions. unless AL got some definitive answer i still am inclined to believe both are using fxaa with different presets.

edit: does the mlaa in the ps3 sdk only target geometrical edges? because that would pretty much my mlaa evaluation on ps3 flawed :3

[Gitaroo]

maybe we can get DF to setup an interview with Eidos Montreal.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Kasersky

i've been playing around with the mlaa setting on the pc version looking specifically at things with high contrast edges like ebooks and bright lettering and going very low pixel range. the typical kind of artifacting you get with mlaa in worst case. then i looked at the ps3 version and it didnt have the same kind of artifacting under the same conditions. unless AL got some definitive answer i still am inclined to believe both are using fxaa with different presets.

You may want to consider what differences there may be between PS3 MLAA and the one they've done on PC first.

What I do know about DEHR on PS3 is that edge shimmering is significantly worse.

[Delta9]

If that is MLAA it's clearly far the worse seen yet.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Delta9

If that is MLAA it's clearly far the worse seen yet.

It's also a colour pallette that's somewhat unique (monochrome jokes aside).

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

It's also a colour pallette that's somewhat unique (monochrome jokes aside).

But are you sure about MLAA? Because the pop in pixels remember more the FXAA behaviour than the MLAA on ps3.... MLAA tend to pop in only when occurs cross edges, too fine lines or redudant slower camera movements; the artifacs pop in are a little different to FXAA, more 'spread' for the vertex works. FXAA seems use more pixel by pixel (or at least I have perceived this, even on the 360 version); & the pop in is perceivable in the short lines. I see more analogie between the two DE versions than any others use of mlaa in the others ps3 game. My apologies if I wasn't clear.

[Ruskie]

Originally Posted by assurdum

But are you sure about MLAA? Because the pop in pixels remember more the FXAA behaviour than the MLAA on ps3.... MLAA tend to pop in only when occurs cross edges, too fine lines or redudant slower camera movements; the artifacs pop in are a little different to FXAA, more 'spread' for the vertex works. FXAA seems use more pixel by pixel (or at least I have perceived this, even on the 360 version); & the pop in is perceivable in the short lines. I see more analogie between the two DE versions than any others use of mlaa in the others ps3 game. My apologies if I wasn't clear.

Actually,Killzone 3 had similar "look" in terms of jaggies as Deus Ex PS3 version has.It might be duo to artstyle as Al said.