[DrJay24]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Not quite... the dithering effect in GTA4 was on textures...

It was on the shadows too, they were the worst offenders.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by DrJay24

It was on the shadows too, they were the worst offenders.

Well, in FC2's case, it looks very different from the dithering seen in GTA4. These shadows actually look interlaced of a sort or as though there is no interpolation occurring resulting in missing lines.

[warb]

Originally Posted by GarretASUS

Then there seem to be some inconsistencies found within the 360 version then if during some playthroughs it changes. And with regards to motion blur, my PS3 copy most definitely has the motion blur effect. Now if they are different in intensity between versions, I wouldn't know.

It's been updated again.

UPDATE: We have tracked down exactly what causes the graphical glitch in the Xbox 360 version of Tomb Raider Underworld. And guess what? It is also in the PlayStation 3. Check out how to recreate the bug here.
We have taken this Head2Head offline and will be updating the content soon.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Some Far Cry 2 action. PC is running at 4xAA, though the option for 8xAA is available.

Shot1:
PC: http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1527/pc1cu7.jpg
360: http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1149/3601es6.jpg
PS3: http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4088/ps31py7.jpg

Shot2:
PC: http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1161/pc2cz4.jpg
360: http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/929/3602xe8.jpg
PS3: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/292/ps32gp7.jpg

Think I'm gonna have to recapture the PC one as the field of view is clearly wrong. I think I'll add that unofficial patch. A couple of interesting observations - firstly, the shadowing on 360 is almost interlace-like in appearance. Not good at all. The image does look anti-aliased on both platforms though... 2xMSAA on 360 and 2xQAA on PS3? I'm sure the previous footage was zero AA...

Interesting. I think I'm going to agree with your AA suggestions, only in the case of the 360 the AA is applied and then the shadows are drawn, which could make sense if the AA is done in EDRAM and then the shadows in the final pass when the image is out of EDRAM again (you may in fact, laugh at me if this is a stupid idea). In fact, I'm thinking this achieves 4xAA on the 360, but this is masked by the shadows (seem to be not using transparency).

I'm thinking the PS3's shadows are drawn in the exact same way, but then the PS3 version relies on the Quincunx to get rid of the pixellation of the shadows. You can see this in the bits that are only very lightly shadowed, or are single thin shadows, where you can still see how the original pixel pattern on the 360 is the same on PS3 but mostly positively blended into the background by the full-screen Quincunx.

The advantage of this seems to be that when a shadow is added to another shadow, this looks very nice and is an effect you probably couldn't afford to do with transparency (which is apparently expensive on either system). But then they probably either couldn't figure out how to AA the shadows in the 360 version without taking the AA out of the EDRAM, or just didn't have enough time to figure out a different rendering method on the 360 to take the shadows into account.

It is refreshing to see a third party use Quincunx on the PS3, and use it cleverly, although downsides for multiplatform development are also apparent, and you do get a slightly more blurried image in which texture definition suffers somewhat. Definitely both images are 720p though, no upscaling.

Does this make any sense at all? I know everything I know about rendering from these forums, so no claims of authority on my part. Hopefully someone with more authority weighs in.

Makes me want to try the game out though!

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Some Far Cry 2 action. PC is running at 4xAA, though the option for 8xAA is available.

Shot1:
PC: http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1527/pc1cu7.jpg
360: http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1149/3601es6.jpg
PS3: http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4088/ps31py7.jpg

Shot2:
PC: http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1161/pc2cz4.jpg
360: http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/929/3602xe8.jpg
PS3: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/292/ps32gp7.jpg

Think I'm gonna have to recapture the PC one as the field of view is clearly wrong. I think I'll add that unofficial patch. A couple of interesting observations - firstly, the shadowing on 360 is almost interlace-like in appearance. Not good at all. The image does look anti-aliased on both platforms though... 2xMSAA on 360 and 2xQAA on PS3? I'm sure the previous footage was zero AA...

It looks like the shadows aren't filtered. The same crap you can see in Battlefield 2 or NFS Most Wanted on every older Radeon (because of lacking PCF support).
BF2:

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Arnold Beckenbauer

It looks like the shadows aren't filtered. The same crap you can see in Battlefield 2 or NFS Most Wanted on every older Radeon (because of lacking PCF support).

WRT Most Wanted, you mean when the shadows are cast across a vehicle right? Because on the ground they were properly filtered IIRC (Radeon X850).

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

Originally Posted by Richard

WRT Most Wanted, you mean when the shadows are cast across a vehicle right? Because on the ground they were properly filtered IIRC (Radeon X850).

http://www.ixbt.com/video/itogi-vide...ics-nfsmw.html
It looks unfiltered on all Radeons.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Arnold Beckenbauer

http://www.ixbt.com/video/itogi-vide...ics-nfsmw.html
It looks unfiltered on all Radeons.

Ah okay, nevermind then, I thought you meant the MW shadows looked like the ones from BF2. For reference, I was talking about this, using one of the shots from your link: when the tree shadows are cast across the red car in the centre of the screenshot, the shadow "edges" are sharp whereas in the ground they are soft.

[MazingerDUDE]

just dled Super SF2 HD Remix


http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/SF2HD1080P.jpg

there seems to be some kind of dithering artifact going on around edge of characters at 1080P


http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/SF2HD720P.jpg

seems smoother at 720P, but with of course, a lot less details


could this be a bug?


PS3 version BTW

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Some Far Cry 2 action.

Shot1:
360: http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1149/3601es6.jpg
PS3: http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4088/ps31py7.jpg

The shadows are nasty looking, I noticed that when I played the game, I have a 100" screen currently and at that size the shadow artifacts look pretty bad. The X360 version is sharper and draws more on the screen though.

[vanquish]

I have a question about Quincunx AA, a lot of PS3 titles use it eg TR:UW, Quantum of Solace, Assassins Creed, Resistance 1 (2?), and even Killzone 2.

Wheras basically no 360 titles do, is this due to architecture differences on the PS3 (eg SPE's) that make it more viable? Or are devs simply more interested in reducing aliasing in their PS3 titles these days, given the traditional lack of AA in PS3 ports.

As I understand the storage cost is the same as 2xMSAA, but the perceived effect is higher (eg =4xMSAA) but it blurs textures.

[grandmaster]

Quincunx is incorporated in hardware in nVidia graphics chips.

Here's Street Fighter HD Remix on 360. There is something a bit odd at 1080p... almost as though the art has been vertically scaled - badly.

Shot1:
720p: http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3794/720p000dg0.jpg
1080p: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5567/1080p000bz9.jpg

Shot2:
720p: http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/304/720p001hg0.jpg
1080p: http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7285/1080p001fj0.jpg

Shot3:
720p: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5999/720p002zs0.jpg
1080p: http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/3112/1080p002sj6.jpg

Shot4:
720p: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1277/720p003ul8.jpg
1080p: http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/305/1080p003fe4.jpg

[Arwin]

Strange. What's the size of the game as download?

[user542745831]

Originally Posted by MazingerDUDE

just dled Super SF2 HD Remix
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/SF2HD1080P.jpg
there seems to be some kind of dithering artifact going on around edge of characters at 1080P
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/SF2HD720P.jpg
seems smoother at 720P, but with of course, a lot less details
could this be a bug?
PS3 version BTW

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Here's Street Fighter HD Remix on 360. There is something a bit odd at 1080p... almost as though the art has been vertically scaled - badly.
Shot1:
720p: http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3794/720p000dg0.jpg
1080p: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5567/1080p000bz9.jpg
Shot2:
720p: http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/304/720p001hg0.jpg
1080p: http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7285/1080p001fj0.jpg
Shot3:
720p: http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5999/720p002zs0.jpg
1080p: http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/3112/1080p002sj6.jpg
Shot4:
720p: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1277/720p003ul8.jpg
1080p: http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/305/1080p003fe4.jpg

So the game is suffering from that at 1080p on both consoles? PS3 and Xbox 360?

And what about the black bars at the left and right side of the picture of your screenshots grandmaster? Is the game pillarboxed?

If yes, what could be the reason for that? To compensate overscan of some displays?

But why at 1080p, too then? Most 1080p displays should support 1:1 display.

Strange.

[Arwin]

The 1080p shots from the PS3 seem to be completely different from the 360 version though - the PS3's 1080p is proper 1080p, but the 360 I don't know what's happening there, something really weird.

[grandmaster]

The 360 download is around 380-390MB by the way.

[lbartley]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

The 360 download is around 380-390MB by the way.

That's a little interesting, usually the PS3 file sizes are larger...

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

The 360 download is around 380-390MB by the way.

Well then it probably shouldn't be the source material/art - the PS3 is 303MB apparently.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

There is something a bit odd at 1080p... almost as though the art has been vertically scaled - badly.

A poorer scaling algorithm, but at the same time, the image isn't blurred... a curious trade-off. Looking at the 720p shots closely, it seems the problems are still there, but are amplified (more noticeable) at 1080p. :s Perhaps a problem with the sprite technology they're using?

The environments appear to be fine (and even sharper than 720p upscaled to 1080p using a lanczos filter), so they're likely drawn at 1:1 pixel ratio.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by Arnold Beckenbauer

It looks like the shadows aren't filtered. The same crap you can see in Battlefield 2 or NFS Most Wanted on every older Radeon (because of lacking PCF support).
BF2:
http://www.abload.de/img/screen0017byf.jpg

That doesn't really look like the X360 version of Far Cry 2 though, which shadows look like they are rasterized.

[grandmaster]

I'm not going to buy the PS3 version just to grab it (can't say I'm really THAT impressed with the 360 one to be honest), but the weirdo scaling method seems to be in MazingerDUDE's shots as well. Where there should be smooth lines, there are odd dimples, just as on 360.

It's as though vertical resolution is being stretched and rather then blur, they're doubling the odd line.

The pillaring is there by default by the way. I'm actually wondering if scaling down vertically will cure the sprites of their problems.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

It's as though vertical resolution is being stretched and rather then blur, they're doubling the odd line.

It may be worth noting that the oddity has a 5-5-6 regularity. (5-pixels from a pixel of the double pixel wide column to the next, 5-pixels to the next occurrence, then 6 pixels to the next, and then it starts again)

Originally Posted by grandmaster

I'm not going to buy the PS3 version just to grab it

They don't offer a demo?

I'm actually wondering if scaling down vertically will cure the sprites of their problems.

It does but... hm...

[grandmaster]

That sounds like a 'nearest neighbor' Photoshop resize technique... it means that more than 12% of the character detail has been lost.

There's no playable demo that I can see on the US PSN, and it's not available at all in the EU.

[Rotmm]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

There's no playable demo that I can see on the US PSN, and it's not available at all in the EU.

I'd wait until tomorrow, as Thursday is PSN day for demo's, movies and the like.

[rekator]

Originally Posted by grandmaster

That sounds like a 'nearest neighbor' Photoshop resize technique... it means that more than 12% of the character detail has been lost.

There's no playable demo that I can see on the US PSN, and it's not available at all in the EU.

So the game is not a 1080p native?
If yes, why not using the hardware scaler of the 360? Who give good results.
On PS3 I understood the need to implement a good software scaler, but in this game it's seem to not be good?
And I don't think that SF2 use all the resourcse of the PS3 so you have room for made a really good software scaler, like the DVD upscale of the PS3.