[Versatil]

Originally Posted by COPS N RAPPERS

If it was possible i think giving some AA would help a lot in ps3's version, maybe some QAA, does the ut3 engine even support that?

The UE3 is highly customisable. But in this case, the game doesn't seem to support this feature and it would be quite surprising.

[Versatil]

Originally Posted by nightshade

QAA for Fifa isnt good...they should've opted 2*AA instead.
Any idea what the 360 version runs at ?

You mean 2xMSAA?

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by jlippo

Yup, but there were also a mode that is very similar to Quincunx, it used 4xMSAA as a base 4x-tap9.
List of nv40 AA modes.

' 4x-9tap:Another legacy mode from the Nv2x/Nv3x line that was never officially supported. Similar to quincunx it uses pixel sharing post processing that reduces edge aliasing.. It does however cause a blur effect like quincunx. '
Mmm interesting...it is possible to use on the ps3? Because really Fight night 4 has better egdes in comparison to Fifa 10.

[nightshade]

Originally Posted by Versatil

You mean 2xMSAA?

yea sorry 2*MSAA, I should've made that clear.

Originally Posted by assurdum

' Mmm interesting...it is possible to use on the ps3? Because really Fight night 4 has better egdes in comparison to Fifa 10.

Would'nt the color contrast make some difference ? Fifa is bright while FNR4 is not so bright.

Also since FNR4 has larger amount of pixels being taken by objects/characters compared to Fifa where the cam is zoomed out & everything takes less amount of pixels wouldnt that help FNR4 have less visible jaggies compared to FIFA ?

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by nightshade

yea sorry 2*MSAA, I should've made that clear.


Would'nt the color contrast make some difference ? Fifa is bright while FNR4 is not so bright.

Also since FNR4 has larger amount of pixels being taken by objects/characters compared to Fifa where the cam is zoomed out & everything takes less amount of pixels wouldnt that help FNR4 have less visible jaggies compared to FIFA ?

Could be...my question is if possible these different technics on the ps3...

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by jlippo

Yup, but there were also a mode that is very similar to Quincunx, it used 4xMSAA as a base 4x-tap9.
List of nv40 AA modes.

Have these modes been checked with the G7x line

One might consider just how terrible ordered grid AA is though for the number of samples being stored. All of these other modes are a waste of resources too i.e. anything with supersampling and anything with more than 4 multisamples... which basically brings the list back to 2xQ, 2x, 4xRGMS.

The only thing that might be a better trade-off is custom edge AA seen in a few games already.

Originally Posted by Gitaroo

doesn't the blur from QAA also give it some sort of transparency AA effect?

Yes.

[jlippo]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Have these modes been checked with the G7x line

One might consider just how terrible ordered grid AA is though for the number of samples being stored. All of these other modes are a waste of resources too i.e. anything with supersampling and anything with more than 4 multisamples... which basically brings the list back to 2xQ, 2x, 4xRGMS.

It used to work on my 6800 and 8800 and seems to work with gtx285 as well.
Ordered grid looks bad, but SSAA does wonders to many games.

Originally Posted by AlStrong

The only thing that might be a better trade-off is custom edge AA seen in a few games already.

Indeed, something like 2xMSAA with intels MLAA done before resolve might be quite nice looking.

[Arwin]

I noticed using the EyeCreate software that edge detection can be done in realtime fairly easily, it seems. Would it be possible to use that for AA as well?

[Laa-Yosh]

Only for blurs... without the source data you can't really do AA in the strict sense.
Edge blur is a good thing though and AFAIK Crysis already used it...

[2real4tv]

Does anyone know if Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 will have 1080P like the first? I doubt it but just wanted to know.

[brain_stew]

Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh

Only for blurs... without the source data you can't really do AA in the strict sense.
Edge blur is a good thing though and AFAIK Crysis already used it...

It was very effective in Crysis (especially at the "2") setting because it dealt with the foliage aliasing as well. In a game with a load of transparency aliasing like Crysis it honestly works better than standard 2xmsaa imo and the performance cost in Crysis was virtually nil.

Considering the PS3 in particular tends to struggle with msaa so much, its a really good solution for the consoles if done well imo. Works fine with games that use MRT as well, Call of Juarez has a pretty good implementation.

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Have these modes been checked with the G7x line
.

4x9Tap is still available through nHancer on my GTX 260, don't see why they would have took out support in the G7x generation only to bring it back in subsequant generations. I sometimes use it in UT3 as it helps deal with the shader aliasing.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by brain_stew

4x9Tap is still available through nHancer on my GTX 260, don't see why they would have took out support in the G7x generation only to bring it back in subsequant generations. I sometimes use it in UT3 as it helps deal with the shader aliasing.

Indeed... That info was done on an NV40, and I didn't know anyone tested it on newer hardware, which is why I asked...

At any rate, if developers do use it, it'd only be in games where they can even afford 4xAA. The fact that it's ordered grid doesn't make it very enticing for near-axis angles though. Using the blur to "solve" shader aliasing is a bit of a poor way to go about it though.

[Neb]

Is it stuff that can be fixed like for example GRID that has it off by default (highlighted part)?

<multisampling option="8xmsaa">
<back_buffer level="8xmsaa" />
<colour_target level="8xmsaa" />
<minimap level="8xmsaa" />
<dynamic_envmap level="8xmsaa" />
<static_envmap level="8xmsaa" />
<rear_view_mirror level="4xmsaa"/>

Makes for a sweat difference in cleanliness making it pretty much 'bullshotiz'.

[AlStrong]

For those, you'd want a higher res buffer and more AA samples.

[Neb]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

For those, you'd want a higher res buffer and more AA samples.

Well 8xAA for reflections pretty much removes any aliasing coupled with the 1024x1024 reflections. Though the game sported smaller effect buffer but that could be fixed to. 1:1 effects for no ugly PP aliasing silhouttes (smoke, depth of field etc)!

[brain_stew]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Indeed... That info was done on an NV40, and I didn't know anyone tested it on newer hardware, which is why I asked...

At any rate, if developers do use it, it'd only be in games where they can even afford 4xAA. The fact that it's ordered grid doesn't make it very enticing for near-axis angles though. Using the blur to "solve" shader aliasing is a bit of a poor way to go about it though.

Oh, no doubt, but I have very few alternatives, my GTX 260 isn't quite powerful enough to run the game with 2x2 supersampling. It was more a bit of experimentation than anything really just nice to to try out the different aa modes as some work surprisingly well in certain games. The 1080p resolution meant that there was still plenty of clarity left and the overall softer image worked quite well considering the amount of post effects the game uses. From memory, the "blur" from 4x9Tap wasn't as bad as from quincunx AA.

Well, it is powerful enough for supersampling but then I've got to drop the resolution down to 720p and ditch standard msaa to get anything near decent performance. Though tbf, I'm surprised just how well so many games work with supersampling, especially at 720p. I can run COD: WAW at 720p with 3x3 supersampling with a locked 50hz refresh (PAL refresh rates is handy here) and on the Nazi Zombie map I tried it with max settings and 8xaf and I didn't get a single dropped frame, and boy was it buttery smooth.

On the topic of shader aliasing, its another reason why edge AA is a decent solution, as texture/alpha/shader aliasing are all starting to become just as big an issue as standard polygonal AA in games these days, I don't see much point wasting resources with more than say 4 multisamples at high resolutions when you're still going to have lots of noticeable aliasing elsewhere. It creates a very uneven image.

I've just been playing the 360 version of SEGA Rally and I have to say it has some of the best IQ on any console. Full 720p resolution, 4xmsaa, and not to be forgotten alpha to coverage to deal with the transparency aliasing. Its a great combination and with the motion blur gives the game a very "CG" like quality. The "dithering" artefacts that crop up from alpha to coverage are unfortunate but are not noticeable when moving at high speed, whereas without it you'd likely have lots of shimmering foliage at the side of the road that sticks out when in motion.

Any reason why alpha to coverage is not more widely used? Quite a few console games suffer from really bad alpha aliasing (compounded by sub-HD resolutions) and its a good solution given the seemingly very low performance hit it comes with. I know many don't like dithering artefacts but it can work well in the right circumstances (like SEGA Rally shows). Obviously on the PC side I try and enable transparency supersampling if at all possible but the performance impact means that's not a realistic choice on consoles.

Originally Posted by Nebula

Well 8xAA for reflections pretty much removes any aliasing coupled with the 1024x1024 reflections. Though the game sported smaller effect buffer but that could be fixed to. 1:1 effects for no ugly PP aliasing silhouttes (smoke, depth of field etc)!

Ooh I didn't know about all that. Love a game with a nice big config file to play with.

Is it true that you can get rid of the "brown/sepia" filter as well, sure I read that somewhere.

[Neb]

Originally Posted by brain_stew

Ooh I didn't know about all that. Love a game with a nice big config file to play with.

Is it true that you can get rid of the "brown/sepia" filter as well, sure I read that somewhere.

Sure everything.

[thambos]

Originally Posted by 2real4tv

Does anyone know if Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 will have 1080P like the first? I doubt it but just wanted to know.

From what i read only the 360 will have 1080p (through scaling). No 1080p option for PS3 this time.

[I.S.T.]

What is the res, AA, etc for Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2, anyway?

[thambos]

Originally Posted by I.S.T.

What is the res, AA, etc for Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2, anyway?

not sure. wish there were demos of it on both platforms. then the eagle eyed B3Ders could take a crack at it.

edit: there are some screens here (gallery tab)
http://www.lensoftruth.com/?p=14886

[MasaC]

Originally Posted by thambos

From what i read only the 360 will have 1080p (through scaling).

Then it's not 1080p on 360 either.

[Heinrich4]

They didnt use triple buffer in ps3 version?

(it sounds a very poor port)

[AlStrong]

Couldn't find a good enough edge, and the added blur certainly doesn't help. Assuming those side-by-side shots are just cut/paste from 720p, the res I found was fairly low.

I'd like some better shots.


Might be 1040x585...

[jaidek]

A Need for Speed SHIFT comparison was just posted on the Lens of Truth. From their rollovers and gallery it looks like both are running at 720p, it is just that the PS3 is using quincunx and the Xbox 360 2XAA?

Also the HDR effect seems to be better on the PS3.

http://www.lensoftruth.com/?p=15133

Thoughts?

[AlStrong]

360 seems 2-4xAA, slightly better shadow filtering (might be the texture format they use). The PS3 has more washed out lighting and brighter... Just look at the second rollover. Much more detail retained on 360.