Beyond3D Forum

grandmaster · 22-Dec-2008, 11:08

Nice timing. I'm looking at Tomb Raider now. There is a clear resolution and IQ advantage to the PS3 code, which is very clean.

Shot1
360: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4518/3601qc7.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/650/ps31so0.jpg

Shot2
360: http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4859/3602np5.jpg
PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5381/ps32ml0.jpg

Shot3
360: http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9116/3603zd8.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9458/ps33ue1.jpg

Shot4
360: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7348/3604nl3.jpg
PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2663/ps34nn8.jpg

Shot5
360: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/353/3605bq9.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/6049/ps35ni6.jpg

Quaz51 · 22-Dec-2008, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Nice timing. I'm looking at Tomb Raider now. There is a clear resolution and IQ advantage to the PS3 code, which is very clean.

Shot1
360: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4518/3601qc7.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/650/ps31so0.jpg

Shot2
360: http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4859/3602np5.jpg
PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5381/ps32ml0.jpg

Shot3
360: http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9116/3603zd8.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9458/ps33ue1.jpg

Shot4
360: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7348/3604nl3.jpg
PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2663/ps34nn8.jpg

Shot5
360: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/353/3605bq9.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/6049/ps35ni6.jpg

yes, X360 1024x576 2xAA and PS3 1280x720 2xAA (with quincunx)

Shifty Geezer · 22-Dec-2008, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Nice timing. I'm looking at Tomb Raider now. There is a clear resolution and IQ advantage to the PS3 code, which is very clean.

Shot1
360: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4518/3601qc7.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/650/ps31so0.jpg

I presume the colour compression/banding on this PS3 short is something with the picture, and not in game?

grandmaster · 22-Dec-2008, 11:35

I'd have to check. That's a JPEG saved at quality level 12 in Photoshop, so it's going to be very very close to the original BMP.

Shifty Geezer · 22-Dec-2008, 11:40

Never mind, it's something funky at my end. Just checked again and this time the XB360 version had the posterized clouds! Reloaded both pics and neither had posterization. It's as if IE's image rendering decided randomly to limit the pic to 256 colours or something

DJ12 · 22-Dec-2008, 12:27

I'm wondering if they've patched the bug that stops all the dynamic lights and shadows working if you've paused it?

I thought they were pretty much equal in that regard but the last picture shows a massive difference.

grandmaster · 22-Dec-2008, 12:42

The extra resolution appears to be come at the expense of refresh rate.

catisfit · 22-Dec-2008, 12:52

It would certainly be a surprise if the PS3 version could push >1.5x the pixels of the 360 version for "free". It will be interesting to see how big the difference in framerate is between the two.

Have we heard anything from the studio to suggest why there's such a difference (e.g. talk of lead platforms or development issues)?

Dr Evil · 22-Dec-2008, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by catisfit

Have we heard anything from the studio to suggest why there's such a difference (e.g. talk of lead platforms or development issues)?

I'd guess it's because of the 10MB of eDram, if you don't tile then you won't be fitting 720p 2x in it and it seems they chose 576p 2x AA over 720p 0xAA.

Richard · 22-Dec-2008, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Nice timing. I'm looking at Tomb Raider now. There is a clear resolution and IQ advantage to the PS3 code, which is very clean.

<snip>

Shot2
360: http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4859/3602np5.jpg
PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5381/ps32ml0.jpg

<snip>

Shot5
360: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/353/3605bq9.jpg
PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/6049/ps35ni6.jpg

Thanks! Btw is it me or is the xbox version lacking shadows in the second and last set?

grandmaster · 22-Dec-2008, 15:44

If the previous poster is on the money, perhaps I paused the game!

EDIT: I didn't. In those sections there does appear to be shadowing in the PS3 version of the game absent in the 360. Either that or the light sources are at different places as the 360 game definitely has shadows.

gavo · 23-Dec-2008, 06:09

What rendering resolution is rockband 2?

warb · 23-Dec-2008, 10:59

The shadows were definitely on for the boat scene in the 360 demo of Tomb Raider.

gavo · 23-Dec-2008, 16:20

I guess I will never now what the rendering resolution is for rockband 2 maybe the same as guitar hero?

Nebula · 24-Dec-2008, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavo

I guess I will never now what the rendering resolution is for rockband 2 maybe the same as guitar hero?

I think there is a guide in this thread first post how to count pixels. I dont know myself but maybe you can try yourself?

If you need a good free image editor download photfiltree Free edition.

http://photofiltre.free.fr/download_en.htm

user542745831 · 25-Dec-2008, 13:56

To what resolution does Tomb Raider Underworld default to on PS3, when every resolution in XMB is checked?

If it defaults to 720p, is it possible to force it to 1080p?

deepbrown · 27-Dec-2008, 00:07

OK this talk of the edram and tilling. Xbox 360 games that do 1080p and 4xAA...they can do that how?

gavo · 27-Dec-2008, 02:38

someone please please find me the native resolution for rockband 2.

Nesh · 27-Dec-2008, 05:45

oh yeah thats the one I saw

vanquish · 27-Dec-2008, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPT

Insomniac Games updated their R&D page with some new articles, I did a quick scan and didn't see that it was posted here befo.

http://www.insomniacgames.com/tech/a...ief_Feb_08.pdf

and this http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/e...iac_interview/ an interview with a senior character artists. It mention number of tris used for the models etc. 60K for the big bosses and on average 5K to 10k on the models.

Was looking at that interesting article, I added up all the memory allocations on the memory map and the total only comes to 390 MB in total, quite a bit short of the 512 available. Is this just the minimum RAM usage of the engine, and thus will grow depending on the workload?

It also mentions they are using 20MB for framebuffer stored in VRAM. With regards to the 360 is it possible to store the framebuffer in main memory, or does it have to be stored in the edram?

Is this why TRUW is running at much higher resolution on the PS3? Seeing as the engine doesn't support tiling, they can't emulate the PS3's larger framebuffer, and are forced to go with a lower resolution or no AA (seeing as the 360 is already doing motion blur, couldn't 720p with temporal AA be another option?).

PS: Any reason they aren't using 1024x600 2xAA like COD4/5, Oblivion etc?

Shifty Geezer · 27-Dec-2008, 11:14

Cross-platform and technology discussions have been moved to the Game Technology discussion thread. As per post 1, please keep this thread purely on the subject of rendering modes, and make points/ask questions about why games differ across platforms in the Game Tech thread. Thanks.

Dot50Cal · 29-Dec-2008, 19:20

Hey guys, I just got the PS3 version of the Biohazard 5 demo, and I gotta say, it performs quite nice. I don't want to turn this into a comparison, but I was curious if some people can check out this shot I took. Its not framebuffer, but it is uncompressed from my capture card. I believe the game has some form of Anti Aliasing, but I'm not sure what. Also, given some play time, it appears its running in proper 720p. Maybe Quaz or someone can confirm that.

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/0...20p-000111.bmp

grandmaster · 29-Dec-2008, 20:52

Any chance of a shot of the game in motion? Just spinning around on the spot would be enough for us to discern if it's using temporal AA or not. Based on what you've posted I suspect it is. And yes, it is clearly 720p.

Dot50Cal · 29-Dec-2008, 21:05

Sure, give me a little bit. But the motion blur might affect it. I don't think its temporal, as there isn't a blur applied as it was with DMC4 (same engine).

Edit: Here we go!

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Image1.jpg
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Image4.jpg
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Image5.jpg

These here are compressed quite a bit, so don't do any quality

grandmaster · 29-Dec-2008, 21:28

The new shots look like 720p with no AA to me, but the first shot you posted looks jaggy-free, which is interesting.

22-Dec-2008, 11:40	#230
Shifty Geezer LittleBigMod Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 18,526	Never mind, it's something funky at my end. Just checked again and this time the XB360 version had the posterized clouds! Reloaded both pics and neither had posterization. It's as if IE's image rendering decided randomly to limit the pic to 256 colours or something __________________ Shifty Geezer ... Tolerance for internet moronism is exhausted. Anyone talking about people's attitudes in the Console fora, rather than games and technology, will feel my wrath. Read the FAQ to remind yourself how to behave and avoid unsightly incidents.

22-Dec-2008, 15:44	#236
grandmaster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,114	If the previous poster is on the money, perhaps I paused the game! EDIT: I didn't. In those sections there does appear to be shadowing in the PS3 version of the game absent in the 360. Either that or the light sources are at different places as the 360 game definitely has shadows. Last edited by grandmaster; 22-Dec-2008 at 16:23.

23-Dec-2008, 06:09	#237
gavo Registered Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3	What rendering resolution is rockband 2? What rendering resolution is rockband 2?

25-Dec-2008, 13:56	#241
user542745831 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 738	To what resolution does Tomb Raider Underworld default to on PS3, when every resolution in XMB is checked? If it defaults to 720p, is it possible to force it to 1080p? Last edited by user542745831; 25-Dec-2008 at 14:03.

27-Dec-2008, 11:14	#246
Shifty Geezer LittleBigMod Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 18,526	Cross-platform and technology discussions have been moved to the Game Technology discussion thread. As per post 1, please keep this thread purely on the subject of rendering modes, and make points/ask questions about why games differ across platforms in the Game Tech thread. Thanks. __________________ Shifty Geezer ... Tolerance for internet moronism is exhausted. Anyone talking about people's attitudes in the Console fora, rather than games and technology, will feel my wrath. Read the FAQ to remind yourself how to behave and avoid unsightly incidents.

22-Dec-2008, 11:08	#226
grandmaster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,114	Nice timing. I'm looking at Tomb Raider now. There is a clear resolution and IQ advantage to the PS3 code, which is very clean. Shot1 360: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4518/3601qc7.jpg PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/650/ps31so0.jpg Shot2 360: http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4859/3602np5.jpg PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5381/ps32ml0.jpg Shot3 360: http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9116/3603zd8.jpg PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9458/ps33ue1.jpg Shot4 360: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7348/3604nl3.jpg PS3: http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2663/ps34nn8.jpg Shot5 360: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/353/3605bq9.jpg PS3: http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/6049/ps35ni6.jpg

22-Dec-2008, 11:35	#229
grandmaster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,114	I'd have to check. That's a JPEG saved at quality level 12 in Photoshop, so it's going to be very very close to the original BMP.

22-Dec-2008, 12:27	#231
DJ12 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,766	I'm wondering if they've patched the bug that stops all the dynamic lights and shadows working if you've paused it? I thought they were pretty much equal in that regard but the last picture shows a massive difference.

22-Dec-2008, 12:42	#232
grandmaster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,114	The extra resolution appears to be come at the expense of refresh rate.

22-Dec-2008, 12:52	#233
catisfit Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 621	It would certainly be a surprise if the PS3 version could push >1.5x the pixels of the 360 version for "free". It will be interesting to see how big the difference in framerate is between the two. Have we heard anything from the studio to suggest why there's such a difference (e.g. talk of lead platforms or development issues)?

23-Dec-2008, 10:59	#238
warb Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 282	The shadows were definitely on for the boat scene in the 360 demo of Tomb Raider.

23-Dec-2008, 16:20	#239
gavo Registered Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3	I guess I will never now what the rendering resolution is for rockband 2 maybe the same as guitar hero?

27-Dec-2008, 00:07	#242
deepbrown Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,046	OK this talk of the edram and tilling. Xbox 360 games that do 1080p and 4xAA...they can do that how?

27-Dec-2008, 02:38	#243
gavo Registered Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3	someone please please find me the native resolution for rockband 2.

27-Dec-2008, 05:45	#244
Nesh Regular Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,291	oh yeah thats the one I saw

29-Dec-2008, 19:20	#247
Dot50Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 394	Hey guys, I just got the PS3 version of the Biohazard 5 demo, and I gotta say, it performs quite nice. I don't want to turn this into a comparison, but I was curious if some people can check out this shot I took. Its not framebuffer, but it is uncompressed from my capture card. I believe the game has some form of Anti Aliasing, but I'm not sure what. Also, given some play time, it appears its running in proper 720p. Maybe Quaz or someone can confirm that. http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/0...20p-000111.bmp

29-Dec-2008, 20:52	#248
grandmaster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,114	Any chance of a shot of the game in motion? Just spinning around on the spot would be enough for us to discern if it's using temporal AA or not. Based on what you've posted I suspect it is. And yes, it is clearly 720p.

29-Dec-2008, 21:05	#249
Dot50Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 394	Sure, give me a little bit. But the motion blur might affect it. I don't think its temporal, as there isn't a blur applied as it was with DMC4 (same engine). Edit: Here we go! http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Image1.jpg http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Image4.jpg http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Image5.jpg These here are compressed quite a bit, so don't do any quality Last edited by Dot50Cal; 29-Dec-2008 at 21:17.

29-Dec-2008, 21:28	#250
grandmaster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,114	The new shots look like 720p with no AA to me, but the first shot you posted looks jaggy-free, which is interesting.

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