[Davros]

the gt200b richard is referring to is that the gtx260-216 core or something else ?

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by Davros

the gt200b richard is referring to is that the gtx260-216 core or something else ?

GT200-216 uses same old 65nm GT200 chips as far as I know

[Cookie Monster]

Maybe what he means is that the 55nm G200s are being shipped and stock piled around the world for a hard launch sometime this month.

[DegustatoR]

Originally Posted by Lukfi

However it would be based on G200 (has a higher physical ALU:TEX ratio) rather than G92.

And would be called GT206 it seems...

[Rys]

Originally Posted by Cookie Monster

Maybe what he means is that the 55nm G200s are being shipped and stock piled around the world for a hard launch sometime this month.

Nope, I mean they're shipping now to customers. Of course, I might be horribly wrong, but I've started to care again about getting this stuff right

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by Rys

Nope, I mean they're shipping now to customers. Of course, I might be horribly wrong, but I've started to care again about getting this stuff right

If so, you'd expect those cores to be spotted all over, no?
At least I haven't seen any reports of such

[ChrisRay]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

If so, you'd expect those cores to be spotted all over, no?
At least I haven't seen any reports of such

If Nvidia wasnt mentioning it. I doubt alot of people would be looking for it. I honestly dont know. Nvidia hasnt said a single thing to me about 55 NM GT200 cards so I have assumed they were still .65NM.

[Rys]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

If so, you'd expect those cores to be spotted all over, no?
At least I haven't seen any reports of such

That's because you're looking in the wrong places. We're going round in circles now....how about speculation as to why it's not shown up where you think I mean it has?

[willardjuice]

Originally Posted by The all knowing Rys

That's because you're looking in the wrong places. We're going round in circles now....how about speculation as to why it's not shown up where you think I mean it has?

You're evil, but I'll take a shot.

Perhaps they aren't transitioning consumer cards first (Telsa?). As to why it would show up there first, I don't know. I guess they don't plan to change their Telsa line at all so it might be easier to start transitioning there.

[INKster]

Originally Posted by Rys

Nope, I mean they're shipping now to customers. Of course, I might be horribly wrong, but I've started to care again about getting this stuff right

"Customers". As in major OEM graphic card customers, right ? Or Tesla OEM's, of course.

[Rys]

willard's right. It seems like one revision of the chip is shipping now with Tesla, with the last revision they taped out set for GeForce soon. My sources say it's just come back from packaging in Taiwan, so MP clearance should happen soon all going well.

That they needed another spin for GeForce should give a couple of hint as to what they plan to do with it, that they couldn't do with a revision that was OK for Tesla.

[ahu]

Hang on a minute.. You're implying that Tesla would be using 55nm GT200b chip. But there has been apparently verified rumours that GT200b would be omitting dual precision. Surely not with the Tesla line

But would this consumer revision omit DP and have possibly higher clocks? But then it wouldn't merely be a "spin". Something is wrong here.

[igg]

@ahu: Rys indicated there's a difference between the GT200b Tesla and GeForce variants. I'd guess they omitted the dual precision for the GeForce variant in favor of higher clocks.

[DegustatoR]

Originally Posted by ahu

Hang on a minute.. You're implying that Tesla would be using 55nm GT200b chip. But there has been apparently verified rumours that GT200b would be omitting dual precision. Surely not with the Tesla line

GT200b is just a 55nm version of GT200. DP will probably be gone from GT206.

Originally Posted by igg

@ahu: Rys indicated there's a difference between the GT200b Tesla and GeForce variants. I'd guess they omitted the dual precision for the GeForce variant in favor of higher clocks.

You can't omit something like this via a respin. I think they're going for higher clocks or better yield rates. And higher clocks than current Tesla line means that we'll see GT200b-based "GTX290".

[Lukfi]

Originally Posted by DegustatoR

GT200b is just a 55nm version of GT200. DP will probably be gone from GT206.

But what would be the point of releasing a G206 if there's a G200b? Unless it had less functional units compared to what the rumours said (192 SPs mayhap, but I'm not very convinced about it).
Could it perhaps be possible that nVidia tried to make some minor changes to the G200 design before shrinking it (I mean minor changes like bugfixing, not leaving out DP units or whatever), but instead of fixing it, they've broken something? Then, if the problem was in the part that is not used in Tesla cards, that would explain why graphics need a new revision.
By this time, they could as well have a brand new chip, a G200 derivative at 55nm. Just remember when did R600 and RV670 come out. I'd think that G206 was the logical choice - less SPs, 256 bit, no DP, no need for NVIO, higher clocks... but if Rys says G200b is actually shipping

[DegustatoR]

Originally Posted by Lukfi

But what would be the point of releasing a G206 if there's a G200b? Unless it had less functional units compared to what the rumours said (192 SPs mayhap, but I'm not very convinced about it).

What rumours? =) I've always thought that GT206 will have less than 10 TPCs -- probably 6 or 8. It'll have 256-bit GDDR5 bus and it won't have some GPGPU features of GT200(b). Basically it'll be a mainstream GT2xx chip, a direct competitor to RV770, which means that it'll be slower than GT200 and even slowerer =) than GT200b.
NV needed GT200b for Quadro/Tesla anyway so the real question is why would they want to use GT200b for the GeForce line? Maybe GT206 is still too complex for the GX2-type card and they need something against X2. And GT200b will have substantially higher clocks than GT200 and will be able to outperform RV770X2 while being more cost-effective solution than GT206-based GX2 card? Or maybe GT206 isn't as close to market as we thought and GT200b is a temporary solution to this?

[Lukfi]

Please don't make me search for the link, perhaps it's somewhere in this thread. According to that source, G206 was supposed to have 216 SPs (9 TPCs). But it could still be faster than G200. 55nm manufacturing would allow for a higher core clock (overall) and optimizations made to the design would allow for higher shader-domain clock. nVidia shrinking G200 to 55nm without having the chance of optimizing the design... seems to me the RV770 caught them by *absolute* surprise and they have no new GPUs whatsoever. But the G92 has been on the market for one year now, the G200 was delayed by approximately 6 months, so there has to be something new coming besides 55nm shrinks!

[Domell]

There are rumours that NVIDIAs refresh is going to be launched 22 of October this year. This is about two weeks and there are NO benchmarks leaked, NO die shots, NO possible specs, NO clocks and NO prices.

I wonder what will NVIDIA launch 22 of October. Will it be only GT200B or maybe GT206 too? On ELSA slides GT206 is positioned as a little faster than current GTX260 (old or new version?).
Do you think there is any chance that GT206 will be the second G92? Almost as fast as current GTX280 with price about ATIs Hd4870? Thats`s is what NVIDIA needs the most.

[Lukfi]

Could be, but only if its schedule was unaffected by G200 delay.

[igg]

Originally Posted by Domell

There are rumours that NVIDIAs refresh is going to be launched 22 of October this year. This is about two weeks and there are NO benchmarks leaked, NO die shots, NO possible specs, NO clocks and NO prices

The 9800GTX+ was also a secret until 1-2 days before it's paperlaunch. Oh, and don't forget the 8800GTX...

[Domell]

Originally Posted by igg

The 9800GTX+ was also a secret until 1-2 days before it's paperlaunch. Oh, and don't forget the 8800GTX...

Well, but remember that GF8800GTX performance numbers were on Chinese sites (especially PCinlife) before it was launched.
Take a GT200 or G92 or even G70. There were some info and first 3d Marks benchmarks about at least 2 weeks before they were hit the market. This situation is quite strange for me.

Maybe NVIDIA is not able to release a worthy competitor to HD4870 or HD4850 (with decent price/performance ratio)?

[suryad]

Originally Posted by Domell

Well, but remember that GF8800GTX performance numbers were on Chinese sites (especially PCinlife) before it was launched.
Take a GT200 or G92 or even G70. There were some info and first 3d Marks benchmarks about at least 2 weeks before they were hit the market. This situation is quite strange for me.

Maybe NVIDIA is not able to release a worthy competitor to HD4870 or HD4850 (with decent price/performance ratio)?

Well the 280 is faster than the 4870 non X2 model and I doubt the refresh of the 280 or the 280+ is going to be that much faster. It will be closing the gap against the X2 sure, but thats about it. I still think it a bit unfair and Nvidia is doing themselves no favors by NOT launching cards with multiple GPUs in them. Its a segment product vs segment product comparison not a direct hardware comparison and thats why Nvidia is losing.

[Psycho]

Inq says now that GT206=GT200b and we can expect the cards (gtx270,gtx290) in november:
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...0-290-gx2-roll

That also to some extent explain the lack of leaks etc, if it's just the dieshrink and in a months time.

So time to merge the threads

[igg]

Well, it's the Inq...

Documents seen by the INQ indicate that this one is called, wait for it, the GT200b, it is nothing more than a 55nm shrink of the GT200. Don't expect miracles, but do expect the name to change.

...

The GT200b will be out in late summer or early fall, instantly obsoleting the GT200. Anyone buying the 65nm version will end up with a lemon, a slow, hot and expensive lemon. Kind of like the 5800. It would suck for NV if word of this got out. Ooops, sorry.

...

They plan to release the GT200 in absurdly limited quantities, and only four AIBs are going to initially get parts.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...sucessor-tapes

[Psycho]

igg: and the point? Most of the info in that article turned out to be pretty much on spot. NV just had to do another respin, which we heard about around late july, and there's a change in code name. Ofcourse you should see through his rantings and to the actual info, but his sources have been pretty reliable since this spring.