[Refreshment]

Greetings and salutations.

Didnt see a thread with this topic.

Need some way to protect the PC as well as other electronic equipment against electrical problems. The quality of the electrical feed around here is not the best to say the least

I was thinking of this:
APC LE1200 1200VA Voltage Regulator>

http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-120...9075571&sr=8-1

Any good?

Lets see if anyone with more knowledge and experience than me in this area can suggest something. As always, considere that i`m one poor bastard.

[Davros]

many surge protectors come with an equipment warranty upto £10,000 get one of those
at least if it does fail you'll get some cash to replace your pc

[ShaidarHaran]

AVR > Surge protector

AVRs deliver "clean" power to your components. Surge protectors do exactly what the name implies - protect components from surges, nothing more.

[RudeCurve]

Why not just get something that can do both? Belkin offers them.

[Althornin]

Most Surge protectors use MOV's for protection. These degrade over time, and can actually burn through (these MOVs are the surge supproessors found in just about any battery backup/UPS, whether it does AVR or not)
There are a few companies that offer silicon avalanch diodes to do surge suppression (doesn't degrade over time, faster response time), but it costs much much more.


What it really comes down to is whats the value of the equipment you want to protect? How much are you willing to spend to protect it?

Also note that for decent surge suppression, any device needs a direct connection to ground. If you live in a house, I suggest finding out where your ground rods are, and designing your solution accordingly. Most products above consumer grade will include a direct attachment mechanism for a ground wire that should be run straight to the ground rod.

If you are looking for serious protection, i recommend http://www.transtector.com/ - while the costs are high, their tech is damn good, and it really does work. They have consumer-line parts as well as pro - http://www.transtector.com/productde...em=1102-007-1A is an 8-plug surge suppressor.

They also happen to be the only company that I've been able to find that has a surge suppressor for gigabit ethernet that actually works without degrading the speed or causing other line problems. All of , for example, APC's products are 10/100 only.

[Davros]

Originally Posted by Althornin

I suggest finding out where your ground rods are,

you dont still use 2pin plugs in the u.s ?

[Mize]

UPS is the only way to go.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Davros

you dont still use 2pin plugs in the u.s ?

Most consumer stuff comes with two prong plugs under a certain wattage. All receptacles since some date some time ago MUST have a ground pin. Older houses don't.

[Davros]

wow thats scary

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Davros

wow thats scary

The two-prongs are keyed so that you can only plug in one way (neutral is larger than hot), but the lack of ground is absurd IMHO. Europlugs are the same way only round instead of flat.

[Mize]

"NEMA 1-15 (North American 15 A/125 V ungrounded)

Standardized by the U.S. National Electrical Manufacturers Association[7] and adopted by 38 other countries, this simple plug with two flat parallel pins, or blades, is used in most of North America and on the east coast of South America on devices not requiring a ground connection, such as lamps and "double-insulated" small appliances. NEMA 1-15 sockets have been prohibited in new construction in the United States and Canada since 1962, but remain in many older homes and are still sold for replacement use only. Type A plugs are still very common because they are compatible with type B sockets.

Early designs could be inserted either way, but some modern plugs make the neutral blade wider than the live blade; such a polarized plug can be inserted only one way. New polarized plugs will not fit in old type A sockets, but both old and new type A plugs will fit in new type A and type B sockets. Some devices that do not distinguish between neutral and live, such as sealed electronic power supplies, are still sold with both pins narrow."

[Davros]

a british plug

[Mize]

Oh, trust me, I know most of the world's plugs as I travel all over and have to carry them!
There are things that don't need ground, but the scary thing is that they sell "adapters" to convert a US grounded plug (three pins) to a two-blade outlet. The idea is that you'll connect a tab on it to a ground, but nobody does so there are all these should-have-ground things plugged in all over with no ground. Yikes.

[Davros]

Bet you dont carry this one

[Skrying]

Originally Posted by Mize

UPS is the only way to go.

Would a off-line UPS offer the amount of protection to be adequate? I'm aware of the differences but can't say I really know how they apply to real scenarios.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Skrying

Would a off-line UPS offer the amount of protection to be adequate? I'm aware of the differences but can't say I really know how they apply to real scenarios.

I don't think there's a single UPS without good surge suppression. You can also buy them with line conditioners.

[Refreshment]

Thanks a lot for the replies

Althornin that was a very informative post. But by that time i've already ordered the APC AVR (the one in the first post). It arrived but i don't have it installed yet. Couldn't invest more beyond the 70 U.S. barrier. That and i have to add the cost per pound, which is almost 3 dollars per pound.

The AVR is just for the PC and a TV. It offers any protection or did i just wasted almost a 100 for nothing?

Also note that for decent surge suppression, any device needs a direct connection to ground. If you live in a house, I suggest finding out where your ground rods are, and designing your solution accordingly. Most products above consumer grade will include a direct attachment mechanism for a ground wire that should be run straight to the ground rod.

I'll have to install a physical ground myself to the 3 prong outlet that feeds my equipment.

Did a little research and it says that i need a 6' copper bar/rod. The hardware stores i've called only have (according to them) bronze or brass rods. Will they work the same?

And any tips before i electrocute myself (j/k)?

[Althornin]

Originally Posted by Refreshment

Thanks a lot for the replies

Althornin that was a very informative post. But by that time i've already ordered the APC AVR (the one in the first post). It arrived but i don't have it installed yet. Couldn't invest more beyond the 70 U.S. barrier. That and i have to add the cost per pound, which is almost 3 dollars per pound.

The AVR is just for the PC and a TV. It offers any protection or did i just wasted almost a 100 for nothing?

I'll have to install a physical ground myself to the 3 prong outlet that feeds my equipment.

Did a little research and it says that i need a 6' copper bar/rod. The hardware stores i've called only have (according to them) bronze or brass rods. Will they work the same?

And any tips before i electrocute myself (j/k)?

Normally, the 3 prong outlet is already grounded, unless your not adhering to code that 3rd prong is the ground. Now if you are saying that your 3rd prong on your outlets is not grounded (as in, you've replaced a 2 prong outlet with a 3 prong outlet without getting it grounded correctly) then yes, you'll need to ground that prong, because without a connection to ground, your surge suppressor can't work as designed.

Most surge suppressors work by "shunting" the high voltage of a (for example) lightning strike to the ground. So you've got to have a ground - the device itself cannot absorb that energy.

I believe that the AVR unit you choose is decent, and the AVR capabilities should server you well in case of voltage sags or slight overages. Be aware that MOVs (metal oxide varistors) as found in most surge suppressors, and in this one, I believe) do degrade over time, and can end up not protecting you in event of a strike (this I have experienced first hand).

Note: I don't know that much about this stuff, its just that I'm a sysadmin who has very recently dealt with an oil field that has taken a number of lightning strikes, so I've been forced to arm myself with some small amount of knowledge in self defense.

[Refreshment]

Note: I don't know that much about this stuff, its just that I'm a sysadmin who has very recently dealt with an oil field that has taken a number of lightning strikes, so I've been forced to arm myself with some small amount of knowledge in self defense.

This is the torturous path im just starting to walk

But the brass vs copper thing for the earth rod has me confused at this moment

Speaking of UPS(es). 2 years ago i bought a small and cheap CDP (500W) UPS. Well after a year or so this contraption stopped working. When the power shuts downs it doesn't sustain the equipment not even for a 1 second.

I cant believe i have to dump this thing and buy a new one because, from what im told, replacing the battery could cost almost the same as buying a new one.

Really dissatisfied with this CDP brand product. Didn't use it that much, except one time that the battery got drained completely because i was away when the power went off. Apologize... just venting a bit, i don't like this recent trend with electronics with short life spans. Now i know how some game console owners must feel.

[Mize]

The thing about voltage regulation vs. surge suppressors...totally different beasts. One clamps transient (surges) the other maintains your AC voltage and may or may not have transient suppression.

[Refreshment]

If you are looking for serious protection, i recommend http://www.transtector.com/ - while the costs are high, their tech is damn good, and it really does work. They have consumer-line parts as well as pro - http://www.transtector.com/productde...em=1102-007-1A is an 8-plug surge suppressor.

I was looking at that surge protector: http://www.transtector.com/productde...em=1102-007-1A
They don't have a price listed in that page. Where do i check the price?

Also i checked some online stores, they don't seem to have Transtector products available.

As of right now considering this as my option for surge protection:

Belkin BE112234-10 >
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-12-Outl...0096812&sr=8-1

The thing is i don't know if it uses the "silicon avalanche diodes" that Althornin mentions. Even checked the manufacturer page, but couldn't find anything.

[Althornin]

For transtector prices, you've got to call or email, they'll put you in touch with a sales rep. Kinda a pain in the ass, but they are happy to deal with individuals, and it can actually be helpful.

The part you mention costs $100 - I got a quote for it recently. As i said, pricey.

Also, if they don't say what they are using, its almost a guarantee they are using MOVs - nothing really wrong with MOVs, they do work. Its more that when you open up most cheap surge suppressors, you find only a couple MOVs instead of a large array of them.

I don't really know if the transtector stuff is worth the premium. I do know that I am considering their "whole house" protection unit (goes inbetween your breaker box and main power in, so you have to have a certified electrician install it - parts costs about $750, install about $250).

[Ty]

I think other decent brands include:

• http://www.brickwall.com/
• http://www.zerosurge.com/residential.html
• Various Furman models

But they are pricey.

[Mize]

Also, MOVs and all surge suppressors have a finite lifetime - the transorbs/MOVs are damaged with each surge and slowly degrade...old surge suppressors don't work.

[Althornin]

Originally Posted by Mize

Also, MOVs and all surge suppressors have a finite lifetime - the transorbs/MOVs are damaged with each surge and slowly degrade...old surge suppressors don't work.

That is true of MOVs, but avalanche diodes do not degrade with each surge (unless the current flow is enough to cause a catastrophic failure, which can happen)