Beyond3D Forum

nAo · 23-Jul-2008, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Only if, going by the current rumours, certain DX10 hardware of today already is capable of to-be DX11 features/satisfies requirements.

Which rumours? I never heard this before.

BRiT · 23-Jul-2008, 04:41

The rumor of the S3 part supporting DX11?

armchair_architect · 23-Jul-2008, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak'n Big Panda

Yeah I expect I similar change with NVs DX11 arch. It should be a fairly big change from the G80 derived design that is seen in GT200.

Similar? I can't think of many changes of similar magnitude to going unified. I'd expect a more evolutionary change, along the lines of NV10->NV20, NV20->NV30, or NV30->NV40. All of those were still big, but not "change everything" big.

Freak'n Big Panda · 23-Jul-2008, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by armchair_architect

Similar? I can't think of many changes of similar magnitude to going unified. I'd expect a more evolutionary change, along the lines of NV10->NV20, NV20->NV30, or NV30->NV40. All of those were still big, but not "change everything" big.

Yeah very true, the jump to a unified arch is probably on a different scale. But I do think there is a possibly that NV will try to really rework their arch for a higher number of flops per mm^2. Maybe, maybe not. But I think there's a solid chance.

A few things might get in the way of this though.

If the smaller branch granularity ends up paying off with future applications they will not feel a need to switch. Also if multichip solutions end up requiring too much software support to be feasible they will not feel a need to switch. Or rather they will continue to address the high end with huge monolithic designs.

But the fact remains that RV770 does what G200 does with 1/2 the mm2 and I'm sure NV is feeling the heat because of it.

Kaotik · 24-Jul-2008, 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRiT

The rumor of the S3 part supporting DX11?

Only possible cards would be Radeon HD3/4k series, IMO. Or at least I haven't heard of anyone else having a tesselator (HD2k, yes, but apparently 3k/4k got improved tesselator over it or something? at least I remember reading something along those lines, and 2k doesn't support all of 10.1 either so it's out)

Kaotik · 24-Jul-2008, 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

So 3 years on from the release of the first DX10 architecture we are to expect the first DX11 architecture? Makes me wonder what the point of DX10 (let alone 10.1) was... Clearly developer uptake is practically non-existent, as evidenced by a lack of DX10/10.1 titles.

Well, DX9 (with all it's different incarnations) has been the longest lasting DX so far, 4 years or so, DX10 (i'd count 10.1 as part of it, similar to how the DX9 HLSL etc profile updates were) is lasting over 3 years, less than 4, but not too far anyway, it seems.

ShaidarHaran · 24-Jul-2008, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaotik

Well, DX9 (with all it's different incarnations) has been the longest lasting DX so far, 4 years or so, DX10 (i'd count 10.1 as part of it, similar to how the DX9 HLSL etc profile updates were) is lasting over 3 years, less than 4, but not too far anyway, it seems.

We're only a year-and-a-half into DX10's life-cycle and they've already announced its successor, and updated the API once. Seems too soon given how big of a change DX10 was.

Kaotik · 24-Jul-2008, 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

We're only a year-and-a-half into DX10's life-cycle and they've already announced its successor, and updated the API once. Seems too soon given how big of a change DX10 was.

Bit over, it was released in november 2006 after all, but anyway, announcing something now doesn't mean anything, heck, whats becoming Windows 7 was talked even before XP was released, Blackcomb project (or what's left of it anyway, things changed on the way too many times and Vista came along the way to stir the pot too) by the info I've gotten is what will be Vienna aka Windows 7, but it's still not out

Point being, announcing something is irrelevant, release date is relevant, hell, I can't even remember when OGL3.0 was originally announced

It will be sometime in 2010 when we'll get DX11, most likely.

ShaidarHaran · 24-Jul-2008, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaotik

Bit over, it was released in november 2006 after all

Sure, to corporations. How many corporations buy OSes to play games?

The retail/OEM/SI release was end of January, 07. Which would place the release almost precisely a-year-and-a-half ago, but we're picking nits now

I realize DX11 isn't knocking on the doorstep or anything, it just feels weird to me to be talking about it so soon in such a formal fashion/venue.

INKster · 24-Jul-2008, 19:47

Here's another rumor:

http://www.techpowerup.com/66660/Spy...September.html

The "Big Bang II" (when was the "I" ?

), whatever it really is, may show up this September, according to "Mr. Blurry Slide" here.

AlexV · 24-Jul-2008, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by INKster

Here's another rumor:

http://www.techpowerup.com/66660/Spy...September.html

The "Big Bang II" (when was the "I" ?

), whatever it really is, may show up this September, according to "Mr. Blurry Slide" here.

SLi was Big Bang I AFAIR.

INKster · 24-Jul-2008, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the Dark Enemy

SLi was Big Bang I AFAIR.

So, this would be a "Slii".
Sounds good... but only if it rimes with "Wii".

DegustatoR · 25-Jul-2008, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaotik

Well, DX9 (with all it's different incarnations) has been the longest lasting DX so far

It has two quite different iterations though (SM2 and SM3). One could say that DX9 was like DX10+DX11 in terms of features...

Kaotik · 25-Jul-2008, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DegustatoR

It has two quite different iterations though (SM2 and SM3). One could say that DX9 was like DX10+DX11 in terms of features...

Mm, my point was more along the lines that while it was the longest lasting, DX10 even though getting so much bad mouthing, is going to live pretty much as long as the "king of the hill"

heliosphere · 26-Jul-2008, 01:06

Based on what MS revealed about DX11 at Gamefest it will probably have faster uptake than DX10. DX11 will run on DX10 and DX10.1 hardware and drivers, although some of the new DX11 features like tesselation will require DX11 hardware. It's not like DX10 where it's an all or nothing deal with feature support.

The new multithreading friendly features of DX11 will be supported on DX10 hardware with DX10 drivers (though they'll be more efficient with DX11 drivers and even more so with DX11 hardware) and I expect that functionality more than anything else will drive uptake of DX11. DX11 is currently expected to ship Q3 or Q4 09 with a tech preview coming this year.

Twinkie · 26-Jul-2008, 05:52

Its weird suddenly reading about DX11 at this point in time.

DX10 seems like it was just yesterday.

CouldntResist · 28-Jul-2008, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinkie

DX10 seems like it was just yesterday.

And support in games still seems like tomorrow

Shtal · 29-Dec-2008, 07:25

Quote:

Last but not least, you can expect DX11 capable GT300 to appear in Q4 next year.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-4....html?doc=6359

Blazkowicz · 29-Dec-2008, 16:31

There's a mistake, G98 is geforce 8400GS (8SP/64bit), the 9400GT is a G96 with half the shaders disabled (16SP/128bit). Maybe that doesn't change anything to the other information's veracity but let's be rigorous on the details

.

DegustatoR · 30-Dec-2008, 10:30

Well, G92x2 isn't exactly 'Enthusiast' right now also.

kyniskos · 30-Dec-2008, 11:07

True.

Am I the only one that find it strange NVidia isn't updating it's mainstream and valuesegment until 3rd quarter -09. Surely they must be hurting in those segments? And that is where the most money is?!

Ailuros · 30-Dec-2008, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyniskos

True.

Am I the only one that find it strange NVidia isn't updating it's mainstream and valuesegment until 3rd quarter -09. Surely they must be hurting in those segments? And that is where the most money is?!

The graph states compiled by vr-zone underneath doesn't it? Bears the question above all why would NV start from the top with 40nm and then move down and NOT dip its toe in the water with something else as AMD is doing with RV740.

Megadrive1988 · 31-Dec-2008, 09:03

So it sounds like 'NV60', which would be Nvidia DX11 part, is coming in September

G80 = 'NV50' (new generation part, DX10)
GT200 = 'NV55' (major upgrade part, still DX10)
GT300 = 'NV60' (new generation part, DX11)

KonKort · 31-Dec-2008, 10:38

Yes, there will be several changes with GT300. Not the same ALUs and so on...

Voxilla · 31-Dec-2008, 10:53

Assuming this GT300 will be on a 40 nm process, allows for some serious increase of transistors again This time Nvidia will not want to miss breaking the 2 TFlop barrier.
To that end they might want to increase the ALU:tex ratio from 3:1 to 4:1.

Hypnotically a GT300 could look like

- 512 shaders
- 128 texture units
- 512 bit GDDR 5
- 2.2 B transistors
- 650 Mhz core. 1.5 Ghz shaders
- 460 sqmm, on 40 nm
- 2.3 TFLOP (512*3*1.5)

The AMD R800 could be something like

- 1280 shaders
- 64 texture units
- 256 bit GDDR 5
- 1.3 B transistors
- 800 Mhz
- 270 sqmm, on 40 nm
- 2.05 TFLOP (1280 *2* 800)

23-Jul-2008, 04:41	#52
BRiT ... Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland Posts: 4,290	The rumor of the S3 part supporting DX11? __________________ IBSL: 2835, 6541, 8531, 9299, 20484, 86985, 87130 FBSL: 7221, 9255, 15892, 20484

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24-Jul-2008, 19:47	#60
INKster Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Io, lava pit number 12 Posts: 2,108	Here's another rumor: http://www.techpowerup.com/66660/Spy...September.html The "Big Bang II" (when was the "I" ? ), whatever it really is, may show up this September, according to "Mr. Blurry Slide" here.

26-Jul-2008, 01:06	#65
heliosphere Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 142	Based on what MS revealed about DX11 at Gamefest it will probably have faster uptake than DX10. DX11 will run on DX10 and DX10.1 hardware and drivers, although some of the new DX11 features like tesselation will require DX11 hardware. It's not like DX10 where it's an all or nothing deal with feature support. The new multithreading friendly features of DX11 will be supported on DX10 hardware with DX10 drivers (though they'll be more efficient with DX11 drivers and even more so with DX11 hardware) and I expect that functionality more than anything else will drive uptake of DX11. DX11 is currently expected to ship Q3 or Q4 09 with a tech preview coming this year.

26-Jul-2008, 05:52	#66
Twinkie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 386	Its weird suddenly reading about DX11 at this point in time. DX10 seems like it was just yesterday.

29-Dec-2008, 16:31	#69
Blazkowicz Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toulouse Posts: 4,144	There's a mistake, G98 is geforce 8400GS (8SP/64bit), the 9400GT is a G96 with half the shaders disabled (16SP/128bit). Maybe that doesn't change anything to the other information's veracity but let's be rigorous on the details .

30-Dec-2008, 10:30	#70
DegustatoR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: msk.ru/spb.ru Posts: 1,311	Well, G92x2 isn't exactly 'Enthusiast' right now also.

30-Dec-2008, 11:07	#71
kyniskos Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 55	True. Am I the only one that find it strange NVidia isn't updating it's mainstream and valuesegment until 3rd quarter -09. Surely they must be hurting in those segments? And that is where the most money is?!

31-Dec-2008, 09:03	#73
Megadrive1988 Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,308	So it sounds like 'NV60', which would be Nvidia DX11 part, is coming in September G80 = 'NV50' (new generation part, DX10) GT200 = 'NV55' (major upgrade part, still DX10) GT300 = 'NV60' (new generation part, DX11)

31-Dec-2008, 10:38	#74
KonKort Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany, Ennepetal Posts: 89	Yes, there will be several changes with GT300. Not the same ALUs and so on...

31-Dec-2008, 10:53	#75
Voxilla Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 263	Assuming this GT300 will be on a 40 nm process, allows for some serious increase of transistors again This time Nvidia will not want to miss breaking the 2 TFlop barrier. To that end they might want to increase the ALU:tex ratio from 3:1 to 4:1. Hypnotically a GT300 could look like - 512 shaders - 128 texture units - 512 bit GDDR 5 - 2.2 B transistors - 650 Mhz core. 1.5 Ghz shaders - 460 sqmm, on 40 nm - 2.3 TFLOP (51231.5) The AMD R800 could be something like - 1280 shaders - 64 texture units - 256 bit GDDR 5 - 1.3 B transistors - 800 Mhz - 270 sqmm, on 40 nm - 2.05 TFLOP (1280 2 800)

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