[GuestLV]

Offtoipic

Hello !
can I find here russian speaking PS3 developers

[T.B.]

Originally Posted by Betanumerical

They look like bullshots.

Dude, you can't imagine how that made me smile.

It's 1080p, no AA.

/S2 PS3 guy

[betan]

Originally Posted by T.B.

Dude, you can't imagine how that made me smile.

It's 1080p, no AA.

/S2 PS3 guy

Congrats, and welcome.

Would you like to share your take on multiplatform development [1] in general, CELL/RSX , GCMReplay tortures, lead vs paralllel development, memory and streaming differences [2]?
In an NDA and boss safe, way of course.

[1] http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...=45041&page=27
[2] http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=48474&page=4

[DJ12]

I guess there's no greater compliment than someone crying "Bullshot" at something you know is in game.

Those screens are mightily impressive.

Never heard of Sacred (or it's sequel) but I will be keeping tabs on it now for sure.

[Quaz51]

so apparently 1920x1080 no AA for PS3 and 1280x720 2xAA for X360?
i prefere 1080p than 720p with more AA. latest commando3 comparison was edifying for me, very better in 1080p on my TV
it's even more interesting for games with lot of alpha-coverage element like sacred2 vegetation, but it will be hard for PS3 fillrate and game like this?

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Quaz51

so apparently 1920x1080 no AA for PS3 and 1280x720 2xAA for X360?
i prefere 1080p than 720p with more AA. latest commando3 comparison was edifying for me, very better in 1080p on my TV

mm... indeed. It's a 2.25x increase in pixel resolution. I suppose you might argue 720p + 2xAA is a doubling of edge resolution, but the higher pixel fidelity across the entire screen simply cannot be beat.

On the 360, whether it be 720p 2xMSAA or simply 1080p, there are the same number of tiles...

Does Commando 3 always render in 1080p or only when you select 1080p in the PS3 settings?

it's even more interesting for games with lot of alpha-coverage element like sacred2 vegetation, but it will be hard for PS3 fillrate and game like this?

Indeed...

[T.B.]

Originally Posted by betan

Congrats, and welcome.

Would you like to share your take on multiplatform development [1] in general, CELL/RSX , GCMReplay tortures, lead vs paralllel development, memory and streaming differences [2]?
In an NDA and boss safe, way of course.

Thanks!
And I see if maybe I can comment on a thing or two.

Originally Posted by Quaz51

so apparently 1920x1080 no AA for PS3 and 1280x720 2xAA for X360?

Well, our rendering solution is not really final on the consoles yet, and we'll just see how much we can get out of each platform. We're just now (post-anncounce) moving into another big optimization phase, so saying "this console will run this resolution at this framerate" will probably have to wait until we're final. But it's looking nice.

i prefere 1080p than 720p with more AA

Yeah, it looks much sweeter in 1080p. We were initially aiming for 720p, which is pretty relaxed. After I made it render 1080p for the first time, everyone went "I want *this*!" It's a *lot* of pixels, though...

[Shifty Geezer]

1080p looks incredibly sweet downsampled on my 1680 monitor. As long as the framerate's there, I'd happily take it over upscaled 720p! This is also a favourite genre, totally unrepresented. Good coop and well balanced, you may well find yourselves with a few extra sales.

[Betanumerical]

Originally Posted by T.B.

Dude, you can't imagine how that made me smile.

It's 1080p, no AA.

/S2 PS3 guy

Awesome.

I can see the aliasing Shifty Geezer is talking about.

Me crying bullshots at first has to do with me being on a very small monitor (14.1") with a native reso of 1280x800 so its really hard to see aliasing, the game looks great.

[thambos]

Originally Posted by Quaz51

interesting
Wolf of the Battlefield: Commando 3 is 1280x720 4xAA on X360 but 1920x1080 AAx2 on PS3 with more stable 60fps framerate (and more vivid colors)
the PS3 version is really better on my screen, Full HD resolution is really good, MSAA don't compete

I hope this isn't an indication of Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix 360 performance. I believe Backbone Entertainment Emeryville is also developing it.

I was hoping to get the 360 version since I already invested in an arcade stick w/ Virtua Fighter 5 & I prefer how people chat more on XBL.

But having both consoles I will inevitably get whichever version turns out best i suppose.

[Tap In]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

1080p looks incredibly sweet downsampled on my 1680 monitor. As long as the framerate's there, I'd happily take it over upscaled 720p! This is also a favourite genre, totally unrepresented. Good coop and well balanced, you may well find yourselves with a few extra sales.

holy-moly and to think just mere months ago you were languishing on a 27" SDTV with rabbut ears and an old PS1.

[Statix]

Originally Posted by T.B.

Well, our rendering solution is not really final on the consoles yet, and we'll just see how much we can get out of each platform. We're just now (post-anncounce) moving into another big optimization phase, so saying "this console will run this resolution at this framerate" will probably have to wait until we're final. But it's looking nice.

Yeah, it looks much sweeter in 1080p. We were initially aiming for 720p, which is pretty relaxed. After I made it render 1080p for the first time, everyone went "I want *this*!" It's a *lot* of pixels, though...

T.B., if you end up not supporting 1080p natively, then would it be likely for at least upscaled 1080p output to be supported? What's Sony's stance/recommendation when it comes to PS3 developers implementing 1080p upscaled output? I notice that only some PS3 games support the feature, whereas the XB360 has that feature in every game.

Do you think Sony will ever (wisely) mandate the implementation of some form or another of 1080p scaling for every game as part of the TRC (technical requirements checklist), because the general lack of this feature in games is really, really bugging me.

[Blade47167]

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6710.html

Naruto Ninja Storm. Screens from the upcoming Qore demo apparently.

Quaz??

[MisterTwoTurbo]

sorry if this is a repost, but one brand new killzone 2 screen shot.

it looks a bit different than the rest of the screenshots release so far. there's more obvious amounts of jaggies. but just curious if this could finally be a real untouched screenshot

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/a...6_2008.jpg.jpg

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by MisterTwoTurbo

sorry if this is a repost, but one brand new killzone 2 screen shot.

it looks a bit different than the rest of the screenshots release so far. there's more obvious amounts of jaggies. but just curious if this could finally be a real untouched screenshot

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/a...6_2008.jpg.jpg

That's actually an old shot. We discussed the lower resolution blur on the nuzzle flashes on this shot some time ago.

[Neb]

Originally Posted by MisterTwoTurbo

sorry if this is a repost, but one brand new killzone 2 screen shot.

it looks a bit different than the rest of the screenshots release so far. there's more obvious amounts of jaggies. but just curious if this could finally be a real untouched screenshot

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/a...6_2008.jpg.jpg

That sure is a untouched screenshot. The blurred effects look are due to them being rendered at one quarter of the resolution (640*360).

[lbartley]

Hopefully we see a native 1080p rendering option on Sacred 2 on the PS3. I've gone from being completely oblivious to it's existence, to being quite excited.

It's nice to see competent developers.

[scificube]

Originally Posted by lbartley

Hopefully we see a native 1080p rendering option on Sacred 2 on the PS3. I've gone from being completely oblivious to it's existence, to being quite excited.

It's nice to see competent developers.

There is no correlation at all between getting a game to render in 1080p native and a developer's competency.

It's much more complicated than that.

I actually appreciate the texture work more than anything else. It seems to be reserved for the smaller paths but the ground textures don't looked naffed which is still all too common. Anyhow this genre is nigh completely unrepresented as Shifty says so best of luck.

[Jedi2016]

Originally Posted by scificube

There is no correlation at all between getting a game to render in 1080p native and a developer's competency.

Like hell there's not. Good programmers will make the game run well. There's probably a hundred examples of it.. lazy developers that make low-res games that run poorly, and good developers that can get the same type of graphical fidelity at a higher resolution and smoother framerate.

I'll agree that there's more to it than skill alone. Time and money are the big factors, but time and money alone can't make a AAA title if the programmers don't know what they're doing to optimize the game for the hardware. But to say that programmer skill has no impact on game performance is a bit naive.

[Cheezdoodles]

Originally Posted by Jedi2016

Like hell there's not. Good programmers will make the game run well.

There is no problem in making a game which only goal is to render at 60fps @ 1080p. Any professional dev team on the face of the earth can do that.

The challenge is getting to that resolution\framerate and have good graphics or whatnot at the same time.

There's probably a hundred examples of it.. lazy developers that make low-res games that run poorly, and good developers that can get the same type of graphical fidelity at a higher resolution and smoother framerate.

Actually i think your wrong. Most "good" devs this generation has made low-resolution games (sub 720p and whatnot). The devs that most people look as lazy, seem to be hitting 720p native or better, but the graphics looks like crap.

[scificube]

Originally Posted by Jedi2016

Like hell there's not. Good programmers will make the game run well. There's probably a hundred examples of it.. lazy developers that make low-res games that run poorly, and good developers that can get the same type of graphical fidelity at a higher resolution and smoother framerate.

I'll agree that there's more to it than skill alone. Time and money are the big factors, but time and money alone can't make a AAA title if the programmers don't know what they're doing to optimize the game for the hardware. But to say that programmer skill has no impact on game performance is a bit naive.

Uhm....well now...

Is Kojima Productions incompetent because MGS4 doesn't run at 1080p native?

How about Team Ninja with respect to NG2?

How about Epic and their lack of AA in Gears 1?

You appear to be taking an incredibly simplistic view of things.

Developers have the freedom to target what they wish to accomplish in accordance to what is best for the game they're trying to make.

Defining incompetency is a subjective matter which I really have no taste for given I like to play games over being judgmental over large groups of people who may or may not have been given the opportunity, resources, or direction to produce what they wanted ultimately.

Still I accept that incompetent developers are out there. I wouldn't say otherwise, but it's much more often the case that hard working people get slapped in the face for their efforts which were hindered by forces beyond their control.

Saying a developer is incompetent because they did not "achieve" 1080p under normally attainable circumstances in accordance with REASONABLE expectations ( which could still be challenged as to whether it's incompetent or not ) is nothing close to saying the same thing about a developer who doesn't "target" 1080p because they are struggling mightily to do more impressive things on other fronts.

It's a damning determination on something rather superficial to call a developer lax or incompetent for not having 1080 native with their game. That is where my objection stems from.

To be honest I'm not sure where you're coming from. I never claimed programmer skill or the skill of any member of a development house had no affect on what a game ultimately turns out to be.

This discussion is fairly off topic though. I'll withdraw from continuing on with it here.

Feel free to PM me if you don't get what I'm saying and you still want to talk about it.

[SG79]

Hello all. Not the freshest batch of screens for SH Homecoming:

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6525_en.html

I'm guessing 720p with no AA?

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by T.B.

Yeah, it looks much sweeter in 1080p. We were initially aiming for 720p, which is pretty relaxed. After I made it render 1080p for the first time, everyone went "I want *this*!" It's a *lot* of pixels, though...

When i "Demo" my Gaming/HT setup usually one of my standard things is the Wipeout trailer. Watching that on my 135 inch wide screen is spectacular, anything 1080p is more than welcome here

[Jedi2016]

Originally Posted by scificube

You appear to be taking an incredibly simplistic view of things.

That's because I wasn't trying to make one all-encompassing statement about the industry, I was simply countering your statement, which I took to mean that programming doesn't have anything to do with quality. I don't recall saying that 720p was a bad thing, especially when it runs well.

[scificube]

Originally Posted by Jedi2016

That's because I wasn't trying to make one all-encompassing statement about the industry, I was simply countering your statement, which I took to mean that programming doesn't have anything to do with quality. I don't recall saying that 720p was a bad thing, especially when it runs well.

It's a misunderstanding then. All is well that ends well.