[Mark N]

Could all you guys possibly be so wrong? Before I tell you the answer to the question of what Anandtech is talking about here, I base this on the writer sticking to the basic tenets of writing. Not always the case, but probably is here.

So what is the subject of this article? Sub-$200 video cards. What is the real reason for doing this article? To introduce the Ti 4200 and compare it ti its competition. What is the underlying theme here? That nVidia would never have released this card if it wasn't for ATi and the 8500LE.

nVidia went two full years, from the fall of '99 to the fall of '01, without releasing a card under $200 msrp that included their high-end technology. Hell, they barely released anything like that for under $300. So if you wanted a gaming card for $150-200 you either bought a TNT2 or GF2 MX from nVidia, or you bought a Savage 2000 or Voodoo4 or a 32mb DDR or 64mb SDR Radeon, or maybe an older GF2 GTS once the GF3 hit the market. But then ATi announced their $199 Radeon 7500 and suddenly here come the $199 GF3 Ti 200 and even cheaper GF2 Ti.

So spring rolls around, time for a new generation, ATi doesn't have anything ready, so time to make this right and put out the GF4 Ti cards at $299-399, and stick the masses with a bunch of dual-pipeline, non-DX8-compliant MX variations. Oops, AT trots out the 128mb DX8-compliant LE, and plans have to be changed again.

So what are they talking about here? Well, if one competitor can do this, what could two do? Lots of rumors out there. But they're not talking about some other DX9 chip here, they're talking about the DX8-compliant, dual-pipelined, sub-$150 RV250. They do couch it as a teaser, with the mention of DX9 and a third manufacturer, but that's all.

And if I'm wrong, it's gotta be Matrox...

[LeStoffer]

Nappe1: Are you talking about that 3D-flavor from Finland again? Then go wash your mouth with soap! You just said a very dirty word

[Fuz]

Having worked in the graphics industry for many years, and having gained many valuable contacts I can say with confidence that the third player will be Commodore.

It will be called the Commodore 256.

I believe there will be two versions. A low end version with the tape drive, and a high end version wich will ship with the disk drive.

[Nappe1]

Originally Posted by Fuz

Having worked in the graphics industry for many years, and having gained many valuable contacts I can say with confidence that the third player will be Commodore.

It will be called the Commodore 256.

I believe there will be two versions. A low end version with the tape drive, and a high end version wich will ship with the disk drive.

so they ARE going to release that prototype after all... well, it looks like it will be quite late (actually over 15 years.), but hey it's better late than never.

[Rookie]

I bet it must be Matrox,if it's not M,I ll eat tons of Macdonald!

Joe: No, nothing. as far as I know...

hmmh... that was a very wierd question... I actually got a funny feeling that there might some places where I am not famous about hyping...

naah, that cannot be possible...

hmm,there is nothing impossible in this world,I mean insane 3d world.I still remember former 3dfx employee Brian Burning told me:"Scott Seller never join Nvidia..."

[Nappe1]

Originally Posted by Rookie

I bet it must be Matrox,if it's not M,I ll eat tons of Macdonald!

hmm,there is nothing impossible in this world,I mean insane 3d world.I still remember former 3dfx employee Brian Burning told me:"Scott Seller never join Nvidia..."

Rookie: nice point you got there... Everything is possible.

[tkopp]

I bet it must be Matrox,if it's not M,I ll eat tons of Macdonald!

Better than promising to eat your own penis ;p

[Joe DeFuria]

I still remember former 3dfx employee Brian Burning told me:"Scott Seller never join Nvidia..."

Yeah, that was the basis for my original guess to Nappe1. I recall somewhere, that Scott Sellers was trying to get back into 3D graphics with a new company. That was a while ago, and I figured, maybe we'd start to get some concrete info on wht Mr. Sellers is up to...if anything.

[Kristof]

I am sure that some of use here know exactly what Scott is doing these days... I am pretty sure its not at NVIDIA

[JonWoodruff]

I don't know about Matrox, but I know that 3DLabs has been showing off their product. 3D Labs is really into the programmable thing for OpenGL 2.0, and their next product will be designed to be completely scaleable, multi-chip wise. They promise to have something before Christmas, and it can't be anything except DX 9, given the programmability of it.

So my conclusion is, whether or not it's Matrox, I don't know, but for sure 3D Labs will be there with a main-stream product before Christmas.

[muted]

afaik, Parhelia isn't DX9 chip, but more like very fast Dx8.1 chip with some dx9 features.

so if it has dx9 features.. it's not DX9 card ?

it's too late for them to introduce a DX8.1 chip , ati and nvidia will bash their products as "outdated"


but they will find something to bash it , maybe by the new , and unusual technology as beeing "unproven"

[Tagrineth]

Originally Posted by Smashed

He left off the quote at the beginning of Anand's paragraph:

A third capable manufacturer returns to the scene? Since Matrox has never really been gone or tried their hand at being competitive in 3D, and Bitboys has never been to the scene in the first place, it brings one company to mind. A certain gfx company that has a joint venture with one Taiwanese chipset maker, and a rumored DX9 part thats codenamed a certain South American country.

Hope thats enough alluding, heh.

Matrox never tried their hand at being competitive in 3D?

G400 MAX was aimed purely at gamers. :P

[Nappe1]

Originally Posted by muted

so if it has dx9 features.. it's not DX9 card ?

Not in this case. They will have some DX9 features but not all.

Originally Posted by muted

it's too late for them to introduce a DX8.1 chip , ati and nvidia will bash their products as "outdated"

but they will find something to bash it , maybe by the new , and unusual technology as beeing "unproven"

for the first one, I don't think so... DX9 is obiously late. Beta will begin on June on earliest so I think it will take maybe as long as Oct/Nov before DX9 gets out. That means also that if ATI/nVidia introduces their next gen hardware before that, it takes all the way until DX9 release until they really get in to bashing older cards.

and besides, I think that Matrox has one advantage: Speed. this might sound very fan boyishm, but I can't help it... anyways, ATI and nVidia will need get rid of 128Bit limited bus or otherwise they don't have any chance competiting against Matrox in raw speed.

and for the second, yes Matrox has key for marketing... it looks like to be providing features that will be supported almost right away and also guaranteening that their card will not choke in any situation.

but as usual, coin has two sides... that DX9 thing could be their problem. Of course it is pretty sure that they do like they did with G200... a year later they updated their DX5 core to DX6 and it was called G400. There was planned also DX7 update to same core and it would have been called G800, but most of us know what happened, so only thing they got out was G550.

so IMO, Matrox will update their "parhelia" core to DX9 in next year. when there is software to take advantage of it.

Matrox "gaming" chips have been pretty good running software that is available when the card is released plus as bonus there has been some extras from the future like 32Bit rendering and 32Bit Z in G200 and EMBM in G400.

[Gunhead]

Originally Posted by Smashed

Since Matrox has never really been gone or tried their hand at being competitive in 3D

IMHO, 1) Matrox has been pretty gone indeed from 3D gaming for a couple of years, 2) G400 was the 32-bit speed king for a brief period -- it was a real try!

Otherwise agree!

[OVERLORD]

Originally Posted by McElvis

S3 was never really capable...

The hardware might be ready, but who'll write their drivers?

[Squidlor]

I do know for certain that 3D Labs is currently showing a product to several companies. They have had several good meetings with Dell this year, and I do know that they have something planned for the consumer market. When Creative announced the acquisition of 3dLabs last March, the press release definitely made strong statements about moving into the high-performance desktop gamer market.

[Geo]

Could we be looking at a discontinuity? Somebody really doing something new, and not incrementally better? Or, more likely, not *really* new --I have faith that whatever it is someone on this board would go, "Oh, yeah, I remember a paper on that. . .". The thing with discontinuities is that often they start out exciting, but fail do to failure to adopt. . .

[Geo]

Another thot: Could it be Intel? That phrase of Kyle's about putting their money where their mouth is. Who does that fit? Matrox, S3, and Trident? I don't think so. NVidia has the bucks, leverage, and engineering know-how in the market to go two track on product development and take a flyer on a radical architechture while keeping the gravy train going with Ti4600 as well.