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Old 29-Apr-2008, 13:59   #626
GAZOman
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I know but my eyes tell me there is no AA - just look at the rear bumper of a car in any version. there is no 1:1 pixelmapping because it is scaled but not because auf AA used.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:01   #627
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Quaz, is the 360 version still confirmed to be 720p 2XAA or not?
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:05   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAZOman View Post
I think it would be nice if someone would just add all the info into one post because the thing gets kind of confusing.

well, I have both versions at home - its GTA so I would like to have the best version anyway.

I don't need to count pixels to tell you that neither of the versions is native 720p - 360 is NOT 720p and has almost as much aliasing as halo3 did. just compare a real 720p game to the 360 version of GTA4 side by side and you could end all the speculation within a second.

if you ask me, the differences are very minor - I will look into it tonight again. one thing is for sure: the PS3 has not better AA like IGN and other reviews were implying and the framerate in general is horrible in both versions. after the dithering debate I will mostly look into that, the HDR thing and of course a deep comparison of framerates.

PS: this thread is up on eurogamer and n4g
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=134736

no, 360 version is clearly 720p AAx2 but good post-process filter on PS3 version do a good job for hide aliasing and imrove visual, and the little more blurry aspect with more hot tint make a more cinematic feeling, probably what some tester like on PS3 version, and with less pop-in, finally every version is good (phew.... it's delicate topic )
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:08   #629
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Originally Posted by AbbA View Post
Both version or only Ps3?

sorry, indeed i talk PS3 of course
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:08   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAZOman View Post
no offence to quaz but imo there's no way that the 360 version is 720p for real... judged by my eyes and not any screenshots from anywhere.
http://imk.cx/screenshots/xbox360/Gr...t%20Auto%20IV/

Here are screenshots. These are taken directly from the frame buffer before any scaling is applied.

This game is 100% 720p on the Xbox 360.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:10   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaz51 View Post
no, 360 version is clearly 720p AAx2 but good post-process filter on PS3 version do a good job for hide aliasing, and the little more blurry aspect with more hot tint make a more cinematic feeling, probably what some tester like on PS3 version, and with less pop-in, finally every version is good (phew.... it's delicate topic )

no AA in ps3 version ?

It seems the presentation of PS3 version is just like Sam Houser(r* co-founder) said.

Warm and soft feeling.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:12   #632
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Very odd, I am no expert like Quaz, but I could've sworn I saw AA in the picture inside the bowling alley on the stairs and railings and that is confirmed PS3 and in game.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:17   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaz51 View Post
Good news, dot50cal send me very good screenshot (thanks) and finally it's 1152x640p (and no AA) exactly like Halo3, perfect Dark or Dark sector PS3
even though i has clearly identified 7/8 recurrence on many different edge and screenshot but insufficient edge lenght and bad screenshot lead astray me, sorry, it's finally 8/9 and 9/10 recurrence, it's the final result!

Okay sorry for my ignorance but does that mean it is in fact 630p? Also I bought the PS3 version and the Jaggies are seriously killing the game grphically for me. I have a older 34" widescreen Sony Wega CRT tv.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:17   #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Panson View Post
Quaz, the aliasing in the ps3 version is very visible on my LCD tv. The post-processing doesnt hide it at all.

So far im really disappointed with the iq of this game. It's the worst ive seen this gen.
look PS3 game like the Darkness or MX vs ATV is lot of worst
even Halo3 aliasing is logically more visible (same resolution but no filter)
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:18   #635
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For all those that are getting bad aliasing try turning off 1080i on your PS3. It seems that it may produce some lesser results according to a few people in other forums. It would be interesting to see a screencap from a 1080i setting and a 720 just to find out what is going on.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:19   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopefish View Post
http://imk.cx/screenshots/xbox360/Gr...t%20Auto%20IV/

Here are screenshots. These are taken directly from the frame buffer before any scaling is applied.

This game is 100% 720p on the Xbox 360.
I also want to point out that other than converting these images from BMP to PNG, I have also not applied any kind of post-processing to the images.

Quaz, if you would like any specific screenshots (for comparison) from the 360 version, just let me know and I'll try to capture them.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:22   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ12 View Post
Very odd, I am no expert like Quaz, but I could've sworn I saw AA in the picture inside the bowling alley on the stairs and railings and that is confirmed PS3 and in game.
this?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4...0036497sh8.png

no AA, just filter and upscale
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:26   #638
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imo aliasing is not worse on the PS3 than on 360 but its very disturbing in both games. and if you have no underscan feature you will see more aliasing on the PS3 because you loose resolution in the not shown part that is cut from the overscan.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:27   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaz51 View Post
this?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4...0036497sh8.png

no AA, just filter and upscale

look at the stair steps - no AA, just scaling softness.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:28   #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
Okay sorry for my ignorance but does that mean it is in fact 630p? Also I bought the PS3 version and the Jaggies are seriously killing the game grphically for me. I have a older 34" widescreen Sony Wega CRT tv.
640p.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:31   #641
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Originally Posted by Chisholm View Post
640p.
Thank you very much.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 14:58   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Panson View Post
So i went ahead and bought the PS3 version anyway and it has the worst jaggies so far of this generation. Even worse than Halo 3, imo.

Havent seen the 360 version yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAZOman View Post
imo aliasing is not worse on the PS3 than on 360 but its very disturbing in both games. and if you have no underscan feature you will see more aliasing on the PS3 because you loose resolution in the not shown part that is cut from the overscan.
yup, aliasing on both. IGN even says the anti-aliasing is better on the ps3, while other sites say the ps3 version looks cleaner. maybe the post processing effects paired with the slightly lower resolution and scaled, hides the aliasing better than the AAx2 on the 360 version.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:11   #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betanumerical View Post
No AA?, that doesn't sound right it looked like it had plenty of AA when i played my friends copy today on my screen.
I saw some screenshots where the aliasing was very clear and it sure didn't look like any AA was in use. Instead it looked like a blur filter.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:14   #644
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I wonder what kind of performance improvement we'd see with GTAIV at 1152x640 with no AA (or tiling) on 360.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:14   #645
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remember - gears of war, UT3 engine - no AA - but not that much jaggies due to some clever filters applied.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:18   #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warb View Post
I wonder what kind of performance improvement we'd see with GTAIV at 1152x640 with no AA (or tiling) on 360.
4xaa would have been nice.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:21   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAZOman View Post
remember - gears of war, UT3 engine - no AA - but not that much jaggies due to some clever filters applied.
Reminds me of Crysis and how I in many situations find the use of edge aa (also blurs edges) to give a softer look and harder to find jaggies than 2xAA in many situations.

EDIT: Though the edge AA in Crysis is the best I've seen in any game so far so maybe it is not a 'good to use example'.
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Last edited by Neb; 29-Apr-2008 at 15:32.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:22   #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Panson View Post
4xaa would have been nice.
That makes me wonder if any of the version is using anisotropic filtering and if so to what level.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:32   #649
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I just counted these myself and got the same findings as Quaz:

The opposite kerb in this 360 image gives 720p

The neon bar above the bowling lane, and the bottom edge of the "Memory Lanes" sign in this PS3 image give 640p.
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Old 29-Apr-2008, 15:53   #650
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Alrighty, there seems to be some confusion as to what is considered to be technical and non-technical.

Technical: measurable specifications such as resolution, anti-aliasing, AF, frame rate, algorithms, shadowing, lighting etc

Technical opinion & questions: e.g. supposition of choices by the game developers with the intent of understanding the technical details - afterall, only they know why they chose to do something a certain way or chose a spec. It's a privilege to get opinions from resident developers to help understand what is being shown. Could be a good choice, could be a bad choice, but leave the dramatic stuff out.

non-technical opinion
- judging games with some emotional attachment - "worst something ever" That's just fluff exaggeration.

I hope this helps some of you.
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