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Old 02-Sep-2007, 15:24   #26
ihamoitc2005
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Default only 100k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Luna View Post
Did someone mention GT5 cars are 200k each?
Yes my friend but I think we only see 100k. I say this because in video they say "because of new inside view" it is 200k. So really I think outside is only 100k and inside is only 100k.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 15:37   #27
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The same point can be made of every figure here! You don't render the side facing away from camera. This is only a list of model complexity, and not what's being drawn on screen.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:11   #28
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Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
The same point can be made of every figure here! You don't render the side facing away from camera. This is only a list of model complexity, and not what's being drawn on screen.
I would disagree completely.

The car interior is only rendered when using the cockpit mode, and in that mode, you will never render your cars exterior. So say, if you would want to compare it to other games, a game like say Forza 2, that has no interior cockpit view, it would skew the numbers by a lot.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:17   #29
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Originally Posted by Ostepop View Post
I would disagree completely.

The car interior is only rendered when using the cockpit mode, and in that mode, you will never render your cars exterior. So say, if you would want to compare it to other games, a game like say Forza 2, that has no interior cockpit view, it would skew the numbers by a lot.
Completely not true. The car's interior is also rendered when you see the car from the outside. See for instance GT:HD, take the Rally car, and then put the camera in front of the car facing towards the car. You can see the interior of the car, the two(!) animated drivers in the car, and light and shadows on the interior of the car as well as the drivers, etc. Or if you take the Ferrari, looking through the window from the side given the right angle you can easily make out the yellow rpm (or was it speed, can't remember) dial in the dashboard. All this is even clearer in the car selection screen.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:20   #30
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Arwin's right. Further, even in cockpit view you have to render the parts of the car you can see (like the hood, and anything in the mirror) as well as other cars outsides of your car and have to account for the fact at any moment you can switch to an external camera.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:26   #31
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Completely not true. The car's interior is also rendered when you see the car from the outside. .
At the same level of completexity as seen in cockpit mode?

If so that is super impressive
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:36   #32
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C'mon guys, have you ever heard about LOD?
The full model might have over 200k triangles but rendering all of them all the time, interiors included, would be stupid -> extra rendering cost for no visual return
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:48   #33
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Originally Posted by Ostepop View Post
I would disagree completely.
Whatever complexity the models, you aren't rendered all the polygons of it at the same time. Whether they're occluded by the other side of the same object, or the other geometry getting in the way, makes no difference. There's a fundamental difference between how many polygons a game is rendering and how many polygons are in certain models. This thread is about the latter.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 16:49   #34
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Farid you should update your post with all the latest info....
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 17:12   #35
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I am quite surprised after seeing that one of the gears of wars characters has the same polycount as Leon on RE4. What a difference normal mapping can make.
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Old 02-Sep-2007, 21:41   #36
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Virtua Fighter 5 characters weigh in at around 40K triangles on Lindbergh, actually, revealed in an article with Sega Sammy discussing the game's graphics. The backgrounds range from about 100K to 300K.

It was the NAOMI2 Virtua Fighter 4 which had characters with around 14K polygons as Sega had revealed in a Japanese trade magazine for computer graphics. Backgrounds in the arcade were about 50K.

The PS2 managed to reach half of that with 7K poly characters, after scaling back the lighting, in its versions of Virtua Fighter 4.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 02:10   #37
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Default Unreal Tournament 3

Chris Wells creates warriors.


Quote:
"Previous to joining Epic, I was working on PlayStation 2 games," Wells tells us. "To create a character would be around about six days, modelling characters of around 1500 to 2000 polygons, unwrapping it and skinning it."

And now? "Well, ideally, what we try to go for is two to three weeks for modelling the high poly, about a week for processing, and about one to two weeks for materials creation. Sometimes, depending on if it's a hero character, that can take about forty-five days including the concept part of it - because of the density of the meshes that we work with."

"To get the detail that we need, our characters are upwards of 30 million polygons."

Each character takes six weeks to create. There's very little room for mistakes, when going back to the drawing board can take months.

From six days to six weeks; from 2000 polygons to 30 million polygons. "It's a big difference," grins Wells, possibly winning our award for best understatement of the week - and even then, the basic figures only scratch the surface of the change that has occurred in game art in the last few years.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:00   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nAo
extra rendering cost for no visual return
But you forget that LOD is like all those other techs (compression etc.). If developer does not issue a press release about it, they are clearly not using any of it.

Hence 99.99% of games run with no LOD, store all data on discs uncompressed, and god knows what else...

Speaking of which, when are you gonna reveal character/etc. poly numbers for HS?


Anyway on topic, I recall GT3/4 cars are 2k-4k. I don't have an official quote because it was from someone inside PD rather then press.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:04   #39
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Default Midnight Club (PS3/Xbox360)

Midnight Club Impresses

Quote:
"These cars are 100,000 polygons," I'm told at Rockstar's booth. "That's not how many polys you'll see in Maya, that is the actual, in-game count." The man helming the controller dutifully pans around the car to show it off. It is impressive looking, down to the detailed interior. We then put the camera inside the car. Welcome to Midnight Club: Los Angeles and,yes, there is a cockpit view. "This is my favorite way to play," the Rockstar rep tells me, beaming ear to ear.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:11   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafalada View Post
Anyway on topic, I recall GT3/4 cars are 2k-4k. I don't have an official quote because it was from someone inside PD rather then press.
GT4
Quote:
Each vehicle will be rendered with more than 5,000 polygons, allowing for fine details down to the disc brakes behind the rims
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec
Quote:
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec features over 150 detailed cars -- each composed of more than 4,000 polygons
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:17   #41
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The PS2 performance analyzer confirms Faf words though cars were at least partially rendered 2 times (multipasses for the win!) so the number of triangles rendered was higher..
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:18   #42
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The problem is that on multiple occasions numbers for PS2 games were quoted by counting multipass/reflection polygons multiple times.
As nAo points out, it matters for rendering performance, but when discussing actual modeling detail, those numbers aren't relevant.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:19   #43
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great minds think alike?
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:29   #44
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GDC Lair Hands On

Quote:
I had a chance to speak with producer Sarah Stocker while Tommy Tallarico was hogging up Lair.

We started talking about the gritty, realistic look of the game and she told me that the developers tried to deliberately steer away from the bright, unrealistic colors of most fantasy fare and instead aimed for a more somber, subdued look.

To help achieve that goal, the game's graphics feature high polygon counts. The dragon and its rider alone have 150,000 polygons, while a single 16 by 16 kilometer scene is packed with 134 million polygons.

The graphics for the game were some of the most interesting I've seen for the PS3.

When I finally got my hands on the game I was impressed with how deftly the dragon winged and glided through the air.

more
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:33   #45
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Originally Posted by Fafalada View Post
The problem is that on multiple occasions numbers for PS2 games were quoted by counting multipass/reflection polygons multiple times.
How decieving that is, I always thought that when devs said the polygon count for objects it was the mesh polygon number...tsss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nerve-Damage" View Post
Chris Wells creates warriors.
Quote:
"Previous to joining Epic, I was working on PlayStation 2 games," Wells tells us. "To create a character would be around about six days, modelling characters of around 1500 to 2000 polygons, unwrapping it and skinning it."

And now? "Well, ideally, what we try to go for is two to three weeks for modelling the high poly, about a week for processing, and about one to two weeks for materials creation. Sometimes, depending on if it's a hero character, that can take about forty-five days including the concept part of it - because of the density of the meshes that we work with."

"To get the detail that we need, our characters are upwards of 30 million polygons."

Each character takes six weeks to create. There's very little room for mistakes, when going back to the drawing board can take months.

From six days to six weeks; from 2000 polygons to 30 million polygons. "It's a big difference," grins Wells, possibly winning our award for best understatement of the week - and even then, the basic figures only scratch the surface of the change that has occurred in game art in the last few years.
You know that the 30 million polygon number is for the source model but not the ingame one right? -You know normal mapping, bump mapping.. parallax etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nerve-Damage" View Post
Err, I knew that.

I own Gears, so I really knew that.
That is good, just checking!
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Last edited by Neb; 03-Sep-2007 at 03:45.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:39   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Nerve-Damage" View Post
GDC Lair Hands On
Quote:
I had a chance to speak with producer Sarah Stocker while Tommy Tallarico was hogging up Lair.

We started talking about the gritty, realistic look of the game and she told me that the developers tried to deliberately steer away from the bright, unrealistic colors of most fantasy fare and instead aimed for a more somber, subdued look.

To help achieve that goal, the game's graphics feature high polygon counts. The dragon and its rider alone have 150,000 polygons, while a single 16 by 16 kilometer scene is packed with 134 million polygons.
The graphics for the game were some of the most interesting I've seen for the PS3.

When I finally got my hands on the game I was impressed with how deftly the dragon winged and glided through the air.

more
That is interesting, I wonder if it is the multipass number for character and dragon as it certainly doesn't look like it when playing the game. The landscape number is good to but then you would get to such high numbers to in other games if counting 16x16km area and ignoring LOD and draw distance for objects of course!
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:42   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
You know that the 30 million polygon number is for the source model but not the ingame one right? -You know normal mapping, bump mapping.. parallax etc.
Err, I knew that.

I own Gears, so I really knew that.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:50   #48
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I updated the main post with more information. I'll add more later on.

Meanwhile, mods, feel free to add entries into the main post. I'll gladly take all the credit for that work of yours.
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 03:54   #49
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Thumbs up Very cool thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farid View Post
I updated the main post with more information. I'll add more later on.

Meanwhile, mods, feel free to add entries into the main post. I'll gladly take all the credit for that work of yours.
Cool!!
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Old 03-Sep-2007, 04:19   #50
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Default V-Rally 3 (PS2)

V-Rally 3
Quote:
V-Rally 3 for the PlayStation 2 will feature realistic rally driving with plenty of tracks, fully detailed cars, and a new game engine known internally as Twilight. V-Rally 3's car models are said to contain between 15,000 and 16,000 polygons per car, including multiple layers that allow reflections and dirt to be accurately displayed. Tracks reportedly clock in at more than half a million polygons each.
Hands on
Quote:
When the announcement of V-Rally 3's polygon specifications was first made, I couldn't quite believe the numbers. The game was said to boast 15,000-16,000 polygons per vehicle, and 500,000 polygons per stage. Now after extensive play with the game, Eden Studios' rally racer sure is an incredible looking title that features some of the finest car modeling and lighting effects in a racer to date. The cars are brimming with lush and vivid details. Every thing about every vehicle is precisely modeled, and I have yet to notice anything significant in terms of improper modeling. The game runs at a very smooth 60 frames per second, and in all my play I have only experienced very minimal frame rate chugs, certainly nothing worth detracting points over, or even moaning about. In comparison to WRC, V-Rally 3 is definitely the better looking title.
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