[zed]

im not agreeing with the rumour, though i do easily see GTA4 being a CPU bottlenecked game

And the chances of R* having the developer talent to pull something like that is slim to none.

huh, im sure most ppl would agree R* have some of the most talented developers in the business

[PARANOiA]

Originally Posted by zed

huh, im sure most ppl would agree R* have some of the most talented developers in the business

Really? GTA's have never been graphical showcases, but they have been fun.

I'd call them extremely talented game designers, not really talented developers in league with those that can consistently max out hardware (PD for example).

[DJ12]

I wouldn't even go that far.

Gone are the days of lemmings and the original GTA concept, they just churn out the same crap but with bigger maps and different music.

If it wasn't for the hype and name recognition I doubt it would sell more than Saints Row.

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by DJ12

I wouldn't even go that far.

Gone are the days of lemmings and the original GTA concept, they just churn out the same crap but with bigger maps and different music.

If it wasn't for the hype and name recognition I doubt it would sell more than Saints Row.

Ehmmm there is a bit more to the series than that. Are you sure your not talking about Quake? Or as some call it 3D FPS games.

[DJ12]

I like the games, but GTA San Andreas is no big leap over GTA 3 and it's worse than Vice City in my opinion.

Everything they added to GTA San Andreas made the game worse, and from what I hear they are all gone now anyway (working out, buying clothes etc.)

The biggest addition was that you could swim instead of drowning the moment you touched water. Hardly the height of innovation or good game design in my opinion.

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by DJ12

I like the games, but GTA San Andreas is no big leap over GTA 3 and it's worse than Vice City in my opinion.

Everything they added to GTA San Andreas made the game worse, and from what I hear they are all gone now anyway (working out, buying clothes etc.)

The biggest addition was that you could swim instead of drowning the moment you touched water. Hardly the height of innovation or good game design in my opinion.

I consider GTA "like" games a genre in it´s own right and unlike FPS games i expect this genre to innovate alot over the coming years.

I am not looking for new features as such, i am more interested in where the next game is gonna take me.

[zed]

Originally Posted by PARANOiA

Really? GTA's have never been graphical showcases, but they have been fun.

I'd call them extremely talented game designers, not really talented developers in league with those that can consistently max out hardware (PD for example).

im not talking just about graphics, but about them being extremely talented developers, having the huge open worlds with lots going on, running on the ps2 with 32MB is pretty amazing.

GTA3+sequels sold at least 50million copies thus theres obviously a huge market
how many similar games to GTA are there? saints row + what else?
why arent companies trying to take a piece of this huge pie instead of entering the crowded FPS arena?
true GTA is a 800pound gorrilla but its also a LOT more difficult to develop a GTA style game (or MMORPG etc, how many of those are on consoles?) than a FPS/car racer etc

[betan]

Originally Posted by zed

im not talking just about graphics, but about them being extremely talented developers, having the huge open worlds with lots going on, running on the ps2 with 32MB is pretty amazing.

Yeah, I'm having trouble understanding all those technical belittling of Rockstar, it's probably one of the most complex games at the time.

And I don't even like GTA3+.

[Lucid_Dreamer]

I think The Getaway is another one, zed.

[assen]

True Crime, Crackdown, The Godfather, Mercenaries, The Simpsons: Hit and Run, ... there was a period of maybe two years when every big publisher simply HAD to have a GTA-style game.

[sevanig]

NaturalMotion v1.2 was released on Oct. 11, 2007 (currently 1.3)
But with that release was "Enhanced SPU support for PlayStation 3"

http://www.naturalmotion.com/news.htm

That was around the time of the original GTA4 release date...

Now with Sony's help, I could see GTA4 running better on the Playstation 3 hardware

[Cheezdoodles]

Originally Posted by zed

im not talking just about graphics, but about them being extremely talented developers, having the huge open worlds with lots going on, running on the ps2 with 32MB is pretty amazing.

What? Its not like GTA games run the entire world in the background while you play, they just stream the nearest two blocks. And the quality of those two blocks that you see haven't been particularly good, its been average, even compared to other free roaming titles (there are lots and lots of these games)

R* makes great games, they make fun good games, but i dont see them as technically giftet as many many many many other studios.

GTA3+sequels sold at least 50million copies thus theres obviously a huge market
how many similar games to GTA are there? saints row + what else?
why arent companies trying to take a piece of this huge pie instead of entering the crowded FPS arena?

Huh?? There have been released tons of games that are free roaming in cities, after GTA3 came out, for the next 2-3 years, there was tons of freeroaming games made. Some where significantly better than GTASA was graphically, none where IMO better overall than GTASA as a game.

Also, many of us have been playing freeroaming games long before GTA3 came out. Hell, if it wasn't for the fact that some MMORPGs have to account for having hundreds of players in the same area at the same time, EverQuest on the PS2 would probably look far superior than GTA3 did (they came out around the same year) and that game is 15 times larger than GTA:SA.

true GTA is a 800pound gorrilla but its also a LOT more difficult to develop a GTA style game (or MMORPG etc, how many of those are on consoles?) than a FPS/car racer etc

There are a few MMORPGs, and the real cost in these games are assets i think, because you need a crapload of space for MMORPGS (most of them have atleast 10x the landmass of GTASA).

Further while GTA may seem very difficult to develop because so much is going on, everything that GTA does is basic. The AI is basic compared to the FPS shooter, the physics are basic compared to the racer, everything is basic except for the immense land mass. I don't doubt that GTA is hard to develop, but it doesn't have to be all that harder than many other games, it may take longer time because you need more assets and you need to make more content, but in terms of coding? I doubt GTA4 is hard to code, compared to Crysis.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by sevanig

NaturalMotion v1.2 was released on Oct. 11, 2007 (currently 1.3)
But with that release was "Enhanced SPU support for PlayStation 3"

http://www.naturalmotion.com/news.htm

That was around the time of the original GTA4 release date...

Now with Sony's help, I could see GTA4 running better on the Playstation 3 hardware

I think a bunch of these kinds of middleware APIs should run really well on the PS3. Earlier it was mentioned that Havok had been tuned for the SPUs very successfully also. So there is some potential there. But a lot will depend on how GTA has been developed. The GTA team certainly has some gifted developers - the PSP version of GTA was pretty decent work for instance. But right now I find it impossible to predict how well the two versions will run on each platform, and wouldn't be at all surprised if the 360 version has some more AA again or something. I've decided I'm going to take a very strong wait and see approach and won't mix myself into this discussion until the first actual review builds hit the streets.

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by Ostepop

Further while GTA may seem very difficult to develop because so much is going on, everything that GTA does is basic.

And yet, very few games can compete, it almost feels like when someone tries to make a game look better than the GTA series they have to cut back on something else.

[DJ12]

Well, I don't know if it was a sign of fanboyism when they still expected GTA to be timed exclusive to PS3, but I read many comments from 360 owners that Saints Row was better than GTA.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by DJ12

Well, I don't know if it was a sign of fanboyism when they still expected GTA to be timed exclusive to PS3, but I read many comments from 360 owners that Saints Row was better than GTA.

You mean that next-gen Saints Row was better than previous gen GTA? Shock! There were a few things like shooting that Saints Row did better. But as an overall game, it didn't necessarily score higher, relatively. But Saints Row was well appreciated as a very blatent next-gen GTA clone that worked and improved some issues of the original game, and it was released long before a next-gen GTA surfaced. It will be interesting to see how Saints Row 2 fares against a next gen GTA.

[pjbliverpool]

Mafia was one of the best "GTA style" games IMO.

But still, the original is the best. Vice City and even moreso San Andreas are probably my two favorate games of all time.

I actually liked the role playing elements in SA but what I liked most of all over the previous installments was the sheer size and variety in the game. It was actually possible to get lost in the wilderness and genuinly feel like you were on your own in the middle of nowhere.

And owning your own airfield (which I stocked full of cool vehicles)... damn I loved that game

[DJ12]

I tried to pre-order it tonight, and nowhere can guarantee delivery release day for the PS3 version.

Either everyone underestimated how well it would do on PS3, or people are opting for the PS3 version and couldn't give a stuff about the exclusive content.

[PARANOiA]

Originally Posted by DJ12

I tried to pre-order it tonight, and nowhere can guarantee delivery release day for the PS3 version.

Either everyone underestimated how well it would do on PS3, or people are opting for the PS3 version and couldn't give a stuff about the exclusive content.

That's a nice conclusion based on a trend of one You should try stats.

Has there been any word on shipped numbers by version? Every internet poll I've seen has the 360 version indicatively selling at a similar ratio to DMC4 - a little higher that 1:1 but not hugely better. Surely this shouldn't be confidential info?

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by DJ12

I tried to pre-order it tonight, and nowhere can guarantee delivery release day for the PS3 version.

Either everyone underestimated how well it would do on PS3, or people are opting for the PS3 version and couldn't give a stuff about the exclusive content.

Or less PS3 copies were printed than XB360 copies, seeing as XB360 has 50% more consoles...

[betan]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Or less PS3 copies were printed than XB360 copies, seeing as XB360 has 50% more consoles...

How is this not an underestimation?

That said, the reason doesn't have to be pro PS3.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by betan

How is this not an underestimation?

It is.

That said, the reason doesn't have to be pro PS3.

Exactly. It's not a pointer to people not caring about DLC. It's a pointer to the fact people are buying the game for their current console.

[DJ12]

Originally Posted by PARANOiA

That's a nice conclusion based on a trend of one You should try stats.

Maybe you misread what I typed, I said NOWHERE can guarantee delivery not just one shop.

[AntShaw]

Originally Posted by DJ12

Maybe you misread what I typed, I said NOWHERE can guarantee delivery not just one shop.

Right, that's what happens when you give interest free loan's to shops for pre-orders. I thought people would of learned by now?

It has nothing to do with PS3.

[DJ12]

Well, when they seem to still have plenty 360 versions left to dish out I think it does.

In the UK, burnout was basically a wash first week of sales on both 360 and PS3, despite there being about 800,000 more 360s than PS3s in peoples homes. I cannot believe they expected different with GTA.