[slider]

Originally Posted by one

Streaming assets from a remote server is a pretty interesting idea.

Is that what Master Storage Files are? Could that work? I mean if there's no HDD the 360 is limited to (a not too paltry) 512. And if there is a HDD what's the point of streaming?

I'm sure I'm missing something here.

[one]

Originally Posted by slider

Is that what Master Storage Files are?

I think that MSF refers to a file that holds all game data in it. So a game that requires 10GB creates a 10GB MSF file on HDD to reserve the area on installation. It's like a virtual HDD file for VMware.

[Ben-Nice]

Interesting take on different size hard drives.

From 1up

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161942

The requirement is primarily linked to hard drive limitations. "It's the consequence of having a limited size hard drive, with a lot of other things to fill it out," he says. Companies are allowed to expand the required size, but the game should always run on the original requirement -- users have to approve the change. If the requirement goes up, Microsoft is playing with the idea of allowing the ability to degrade -- those are Microsoft's words -- the experience. Their ideas, straight from their presentation:

Lo-res models/textures
Place certain areas off-limits
Stream assests from server (slower loading)

[slider]

Originally Posted by one

I think that MSF refers to a file that holds all game data in it. So a game that requires 10GB creates a 10GB MSF file on HDD to reserve the area on installation. It's like a virtual HDD file for VMware.

Oh ok - that makes a lot more sense. Thanks. Although of course it may lead to a new "thin end of the wedge" discussion. But that's not unusual for the console arena.

[Shifty Geezer]

I can't imagine this being too well received, if games start using up lots of valuable storage space when it's such a paltry amount to begin with. I suppose from MS's POV, the XB360 HDD isn't really there for content, as that's what the PC's for, right? Though can you buy over Live and put content on a Media PC/server?

As 60 GB, if not 80 GB, is the most affordable, sensible capacity for HDDs, will they roll out an updated XB360? Perhaps the 65nm versions come with larger HDD?

[Dave Baumann]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

I can't imagine this being too well received, if games start using up lots of valuable storage space when it's such a paltry amount to begin with. I suppose from MS's POV, the XB360 HDD isn't really there for content, as that's what the PC's for, right? Though can you buy over Live and put content on a Media PC/server?

As 60 GB, if not 80 GB, is the most affordable, sensible capacity for HDDs, will they roll out an updated XB360? Perhaps the 65nm versions come with larger HDD?

I don't think there will be "lots" of games, just some - this is MS saying "look, we've given exceptions to the HDD use before, but here are the hard rules - MMO's only, thanks". As they point out, devs are free to use set the rules for the amount of space they use but "if you start requiring 30GB then your market just gets smaller" - basically, keep it small and sensible and people will actually use it. Nothing they are suggesting indicates setting larger hard drives, quite the opposite in fact.

[AzBat]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Though can you buy over Live and put content on a Media PC/server?

Currently, no. If you buy or rent content on Live Marketplace it can only be used on a 360 hard drive or memory unit. There was always talk about using Live for remote storage, but I'm not sure if that will ever happen. There's another potential storage device: Windows Home Server. However, so far it looks like it's use for the Xbox is just for streaming content. It doesn't look like you'll be able to store your Live Marketplace content there. So, the only way to archive that content is by purchasing another 360 hard drive to download the data to.

Tommy McClain

[RancidLunchmeat]

Originally Posted by AzBat

There's another potential storage device: Windows Home Server. However, so far it looks like it's use for the Xbox is just for streaming content. It doesn't look like you'll be able to store your Live Marketplace content there. So, the only way to archive that content is by purchasing another 360 hard drive to download the data to.

That is colossally stupid and something MS needs to be working to correct. That's a key integration point in their entire strategy, I really can't believe its a situation that is allowed to exist.

Is it because of manipulation of the rental content? That content would be easier to manipulate on a PC, so they have licensing agreements that prevent it?

Surely the entire purpose is to get people to use the Live! Marketplace to purchase media, and the more media they purchase the better. People need a place to store that media, preventing that seems to prevent mass purchases.

[AzBat]

Originally Posted by RancidLunchmeat

That is colossally stupid and something MS needs to be working to correct. That's a key integration point in their entire strategy, I really can't believe its a situation that is allowed to exist.

Is it because of manipulation of the rental content? That content would be easier to manipulate on a PC, so they have licensing agreements that prevent it?

Surely the entire purpose is to get people to use the Live! Marketplace to purchase media, and the more media they purchase the better. People need a place to store that media, preventing that seems to prevent mass purchases.

I don't think it's colossally stupid and I'm not entirely sure it's a big deal. The reason behind it is that it's a closed system. And they don't want that content on unprotected systems that they can't control. It could get stolen, copied illegally, whatever. It's not just about media content either(rental or purchase). It pertains to everything downloaded off Live Marketplace be it Themes, Gamerpics, Demos, Live Arcade titles and yes, Media. BTW, people who have a 360 have a place to store that media and if they run out of room they can purchase another 20gb drive or upgrade to the new 120gb drive. So I don't see how that's preventing mass purchases.

In my personal opinion it would be nice to get that data onto some other storage device, but I'm not going to spread doom and gloom just because I have a different point of view. I will say this though, I think the Windows Home Server is a step in the right direction. But I think it would have been cooler if they had gone with a system based on the Xbox 360 architecture instead. But I could see how porting the Home Server OS over to it could have taken too long. Oh well it's fun to speculate.

Tommy McClain

[Rangers]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

I can't imagine this being too well received, if games start using up lots of valuable storage space when it's such a paltry amount to begin with. I suppose from MS's POV, the XB360 HDD isn't really there for content, as that's what the PC's for, right? Though can you buy over Live and put content on a Media PC/server?

As 60 GB, if not 80 GB, is the most affordable, sensible capacity for HDDs, will they roll out an updated XB360? Perhaps the 65nm versions come with larger HDD?

It's only for MMO's, and presumably only a small amount at that (2-4 GB's I'd guess). Though granted, on 20GB (whic really breaks down to about 13 for the user) that is a lot.

I just doubt it'll be a huge problem. Very very few will actually be playing more than one MMO heavily, even on PC. Currently, there are none available on 360.

[Cheezdoodles]

Originally Posted by Rangers

¨

I just doubt it'll be a huge problem. Very very few will actually be playing more than one MMO heavily, even on PC. Currently, there are none available on 360.

FF and PSU says hi

[function]

If MS had gone with a built in HDD (as they did for the original Xbox), they wouldn't be in the position of allowing users to set their HDD storage capacity to fit their needs.

What Sony did with the PS3 seems like a good compromise for users - every unit has a HDD, and users can upgrade to any size they want if they're prepared to pay and fit the drive. The downside is all on Sony's end - they lose money providing the HDD in the first place, and don't get to mug the user for storage upgrades like MS do.

If you cram your DVD with assets in the first place, I don't see why an MMO couldn't sit comfortably on the 20GB HDD - even after several major updates. If you wanted to subscribe to several, and download videos and demos etc, you'd probably want a bigger HDD though.

[one]

Originally Posted by function

What Sony did with the PS3 seems like a good compromise for users - every unit has a HDD, and users can upgrade to any size they want if they're prepared to pay and fit the drive. The downside is all on Sony's end - they lose money providing the HDD in the first place, and don't get to mug the user for storage upgrades like MS do.

Another division in Sony that does another business that uses 2.5" 80GB HDD may already be benefiting from PS3, or vice versa, though.

[Gubbi]

I'd really really like to install games to the HD, the way you could on modded XBOXen.

Just to cut load times in games like Oblivion. It would also render the entire multiple-DVD debate moot.

Cheers

[archangelmorph]

Originally Posted by Gubbi

I'd really really like to install games to the HD, the way you could on modded XBOXen.

Just to cut load times in games like Oblivion. It would also render the entire multiple-DVD debate moot.

Cheers

I really wouldn't like to sit down for 3 hours waiting for an install of 20+GBs of Oblivion 2 to finish before I could even play..

& it would be even WORSE if I only had a Core!!

[infinity4]

MS really couldn't put HDD imo. if they did they would have technically benefited, but then in business sense the sales would have been poor, leading to less softwares. MS just had to do this to penetrate into the market.

but if they give an option of usb ext hdd install, it would be great. no more disc scratchings!

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by one

Some slides from Gamefest 2007

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161942

Streaming assets from a remote server is a pretty interesting idea.

Can someone explain me what do they mean by "expect some teething pains"?

[assen]

Originally Posted by Nesh

Can someone explain me what do they mean by "expect some teething pains"?

Don't use it if you are shipping soon, it will be buggy at first.

[Gubbi]

Originally Posted by archangelmorph

I really wouldn't like to sit down for 3 hours waiting for an install of 20+GBs of Oblivion 2 to finish before I could even play..

With a 12x DVD drive it would take on the order of 5-10 minutes per DVD.

Cheers

[Titanio]

Doesn't look to be so MMO-only..

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162176

Following a demo presentation at Games Convention in Germany today, Gearbox president Randy Pitchford confirmed to 1UP that Borderlands -- his upcoming "Indiana Jones meets Mad Max" sci-fi four-player co-op first-person shooter -- will require a hard drive if players choose to play it on Xbox 360.

[assen]

Originally Posted by Randy Pitchford

Because of the way the game procedurally generates everything from weapons to armor, Borderlands has different requirements from typical first-person shooters.

Bull bull bull. I hope Microsoft get medieval on their collective developers behinds for this. If they need to procedurally generate weapons or armor, let them please generate several combinations off-line and ship them on the DVD. Then use the canned ones on Cores and generate away on the DVD of Premiums and Elites - this would be an example of the allowed degradation of game experience for non-HDD consoles.

[mjdted]

Oh It works now. Anyway, it's been confirmed by the lead programmer that Borderlands won't need a hard drive to work on 360.

Borderlands will NOT require a hard drive on Xbox 360