[CosmoKramer]

22% of all americans would favor limited military attacks against Sweden, but "only if the current embargo isn't working".

Poll conducted by the polling firm Widgery and Associates (1999).

[nutball]

That'll teach 'em.

[Snyder]

Yeah! Revenge for IKEA!

[kars]

22% of all americans would favor limited military attacks against Sweden, but "only if the current embargo isn't working".

wtf?

[MrsSkywalker]

That is the funniest thing I have heard in quite some time. The US attack Sweden? Please. CosmoKramer, if you honestly believe that "poll" then you are even farther removed from reality than I had previously thought. The US attack Sweden. That's a good one.

[RussSchultz]

It is kind of funny if that poll was taken and those were the results, though.

[John Reynolds]

Originally Posted by RussSchultz

It is kind of funny if that poll was taken and those were the results, though.

I think we're just still pissed off over the "Abba invasion" and wanted to retaliate. 8)

[horvendile]

CosmoKramer, where did you find that? Was there a context?

BTW, we have a "shock" smiley... shouldn't we add an "awe" icon too?

[CosmoKramer]

Originally Posted by MrsSkywalker

That is the funniest thing I have heard in quite some time. The US attack Sweden? Please. CosmoKramer, if you honestly believe that "poll" then you are even farther removed from reality than I had previously thought. The US attack Sweden. That's a good one.

The entire point was to show how incredibly stupid beyond belief large parts of the american public are... *hint*

Context: Michael Moore's "The Awful Truth".

[nutball]

Originally Posted by CosmoKramer

The entire point was to show how incredibly stupid beyond belief large parts of the american public are... *hint*

Context: Michael Moore's "The Awful Truth".

Easy there, have you seen polls which show how enlightened the average European public are? They don't paint us in an entirely fantastic light.

[CosmoKramer]

Originally Posted by nutball

Easy there, have you seen polls which show how enlightened the average European public are? They don't paint us in an entirely fantastic light.

Sure, but I think it is fair to demand of all citizens in a republic to know which country they support the bombing of. Not trivia.

[Thowllly]

It's a well known "fact" that 1 in 10 will agree to anything when asked in a poll, the remaining 12% were just clueless or confused, and didn't want to appear ignorant.

[MrsSkywalker]

Michael Moore.

[Thowllly]

Originally Posted by MrsSkywalker

Michael Moore.

Michael Moore what? Was it he who made the poll or something? I see there is a http://www.michaelmoore.com/ , I'll have to see if I can find out what that cryptic post of yours meant...

Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice that Michael Moore was already mentioned in the thread... so I gather you're no fan of him?

[CosmoKramer]

Originally Posted by MrsSkywalker

Michael Moore.

So what? The poll wasn't conducted by him. Intelligent people don't shoot the messenger.

[Humus]

Originally Posted by nutball

Easy there, have you seen polls which show how enlightened the average European public are? They don't paint us in an entirely fantastic light.

There is a significant difference in awareness of the world out there in Europe than it is in the US. At least, most people around the world do not have any problems locating their own country on the map, unlike 11% of the US citizens.

[Deflection]

Originally Posted by Humus

There is a significant difference in awareness of the world out there in Europe than it is in the US. At least, most people around the world do not have any problems locating their own country on the map, unlike 11% of the US citizens.

The poll is funny to the extent that it shocks you when you first hear about it. Jay Leno has been doing a skit like this for years on the Tonight show. It's also pretty funny to read about the "art" of polling. It's amazing to see some of the answers you can get depending on what question you ask and how you phrase it.

[MrsSkywalker]

CosmoKramer, I wasn't shooting the messenger, I was merely pointing out that he is always full of crap. He's an extremist wacko. If you use him as a point of reference for all of the US, then I can see why your views towards us are so tainted.

There is a significant difference in awareness of the world out there in Europe than it is in the US. At least, most people around the world do not have any problems locating their own country on the map, unlike 11% of the US citizens.

Hey, the gene pool in the US has more "Europe" in it than anything else. Hmmm....

You have to realize that when any poll is taken, it's most often taken in an area where the pollsters will receive the results they desire. And the "polls of the average citizen" are most often taken in a city. It may not seem it to the outside world, but the majority of the US is rural. Take my region, New England (a group of six states in the northeastern most part of the country for those outside the US). In all of New England there is one major city, Boston, with a city population of slightly over 1 million. I have never once in my whole life been polled on anything more than "who do you want to be governor of your state?". These polls DO NOT accurately give the feel of the country. Not even the gallop polls which show things like approval of a president...these are also taken in cities. So I partially agree. If you go into a poorly funded inner city school and ask the kids "Which country on this blank map is the US?" I agree that 11% wouldn't be able to answer that. Come out and do a poll in my "hick" neck of the woods, and I guarantee 100% would. It bugs the crap out of me that these "accurate polls" are revered as truth by those in foreign nations. They are not the truth...they show what a very small percentage of the population thinks, and that's it.

Wackos like Michael Moore take these snipits of misinformation, hail them as God's honest, and put them out there to make everyone else in the country look bad. I pity the saps out there who can't think for themselves and just take the info as gold. Poor misguided sheep.

[Humus]

Originally Posted by Deflection

The poll is funny to the extent that it shocks you when you first hear about it. Jay Leno has been doing a skit like this for years on the Tonight show. It's also pretty funny to read about the "art" of polling. It's amazing to see some of the answers you can get depending on what question you ask and how you phrase it.

Yeah, I love tonight show with Jay Leno, especially the "Jay walk all-stars", it can be pretty hillarious.

[Humus]

Originally Posted by MrsSkywalker

Hey, the gene pool in the US has more "Europe" in it than anything else. Hmmm....

You have to realize that when any poll is taken, it's most often taken in an area where the pollsters will receive the results they desire. And the "polls of the average citizen" are most often taken in a city. It may not seem it to the outside world, but the majority of the US is rural. Take my region, New England (a group of six states in the northeastern most part of the country for those outside the US). In all of New England there is one major city, Boston, with a city population of slightly over 1 million. I have never once in my whole life been polled on anything more than "who do you want to be governor of your state?". These polls DO NOT accurately give the feel of the country. Not even the gallop polls which show things like approval of a president...these are also taken in cities. So I partially agree. If you go into a poorly funded inner city school and ask the kids "Which country on this blank map is the US?" I agree that 11% wouldn't be able to answer that. Come out and do a poll in my "hick" neck of the woods, and I guarantee 100% would. It bugs the crap out of me that these "accurate polls" are revered as truth by those in foreign nations. They are not the truth...they show what a very small percentage of the population thinks, and that's it.

Wackos like Michael Moore take these snipits of misinformation, hail them as God's honest, and put them out there to make everyone else in the country look bad. I pity the saps out there who can't think for themselves and just take the info as gold. Poor misguided sheep.

The gene pool is irrelevant, but educational system and the culture is what makes the difference. Sure, there's no doubt in my mind that small-city people would have better results than multi-million city people. Sure, many polls can be made in an unscientific way, but far from all are. The poll showing that 11% of american could located the US on the map showed very different results in other countries, and unless they intentionally skewed it only for the US the results should be equally skewed for other countries.
As for my personal experience, when talking to people in the US, far from everyone have a clue where in the world for instance Sweden is. And then the usual Sweden = Switzerland of course. During my 5 days in the US I heard that one at least a couple of times, during my 8 weeks in Canada I've only heard it once, but she quickly realized her mistake before I could correct her. Pretty much everyone in Canada knows where Sweden is, heck pretty much every other guy I talk to have actually been there too.

[MrsSkywalker]

As for my personal experience, when talking to people in the US, far from everyone have a clue where in the world for instance Sweden is.

I agree with you on that. World geography isn't a big time issue over here in schools, especially public schools. Neither is world history. In the US the tendency is to teach about the US. We have so many different cultures all around us already, and are such a self sufficient country that I don't necessarily think that's it's a bad idea to focus the learning on the US. That said, I think there should be more geography/world studies courses offered at the high school level (when I was in school, now granted that was awhile ago, but we learned the sum of our global geography and foreign studies in elementary school and the last geography course was offered in 7th grade).

The truth is, though, to be successful in the US, you really don't need to learn about foreign countries. There is absolutely nothing a foreign country has that the US needs. We trade, it's often quite a bit cheaper to do that...but we could cut everyone else off and not be in any worse shape for it.

You mentioned that many Canadians have travelled to Sweden. I had an interesting discussion with the hubby just the other day about it. People in the US travel to foreign countries far less often than, say, Europeans. Whether this is due to the small land size of European nations, or the limited climates each European nation offers, I'm not sure. But here in the US, I cannot think of one climate that we don't have. We don't need to travel outside the US to go skiing, surfing, hiking, camp on a bayou, cross a dessert, freeze our asses off on a tundra.... And perhaps this factors into this country's self sufficient attitude. "If we aren't going there, why learn about it?"

Also this close minded attitude is due to the amount of work the average US citizen works in a week. Living costs, and costs a great amount. Out of everyone I know who is under the retirement age, I'd say the average is 45 hrs/week, not counting secondary jobs for extra income. My husband gets 3 weeks' vacation a year, and that's quite a bit for this country. Work is valued over play here, which has it's drawbacks, but has to definitely be factored into the grand scheme of the "Americans are stupid" attitude. It's not stupid to focus on what you will be doing for 45/week for the rest of your life. What matters to most Americans is getting the right learning for the job/career they will have in order to feed their families, buy a home, and maybe, just maybe after years of busting chops, be able to take a nice vacation to Sweden.

I'm not saying that these things are necessarily strong points for the US or anything, it's just the way it is. And, trash talk all you want about the idiots of this country...just realize that what you see on the news, in polls, etc. isn't usually the best we have to offer. It makes a much better news story to say "15% of Americans Cannot Find Sweden on a Map" than to say "85% of Americans Not Only Found Sweden on a Map, But Knew the Capitol" (ok, well that was an example...I highly doubt 85% of Americans can find Sweden and I don't even want to think about how few know the capitol. ) If the US was really so stupid, then how would it be possible to be as successful as we are?? And if the US is actually so hated, why are so many people clawing to get in??

[Legion]

Originally Posted by Thowllly

It's a well known "fact" that 1 in 10 will agree to anything when asked in a poll, the remaining 12% were just clueless or confused, and didn't want to appear ignorant.

Hell i'd check the yes box just because i would have interpreted this as a joke.

Nutball: What statistics are you addressing?

[Legion]

Well Mrs the answers to your questions are quite simply!

Even if 30% of the people of the US could name Sweden and its Capital the over all "educated" populace would be larger then the "educated" populace of pretty much every european country (and most likely many of them combined). Honestly though this is nothing more than assinine extrapolation and a poor attempt at an ad hominem fallacy/ad populum fallacy. Do people really expect us to believe the more "educated" people in one area dictate how correct their political views are?

Why is the US so successful? As any "educated" european socialist graduating from socialism 103 will tell you its because of our EXPLOITING THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD!

What is the avg weight of 30cc of Soil 1 mile south of the center of Beijing on a hot summers day (avg temp of 98 f)? Don't know? You surely aren't educated!

[Snyder]

Concerning the poll:
You know what they say - don't believe a survey you haven't faked yourself!
Honestly - I wouldn't give too much about it.

Originally Posted by MrsSkywalker

The truth is, though, to be successful in the US, you really don't need to learn about foreign countries. There is absolutely nothing a foreign country has that the US needs. We trade, it's often quite a bit cheaper to do that...but we could cut everyone else off and not be in any worse shape for it.

Although I agree with (or at least accept/understand) most of your points, this seems to be a fallacy to me. (What follows is my personal opinion...)
First of all, because of globalization the worldwide economies are so tightly interwoven that no country can afford to shut its own economy off against other economies.
Second: The US have quite a huge external balance of trade deficit (hope I translated Außenhandelsbilanzdefizit right... ) The figures I found with quick googling are about 440 billion US$ worth of goods the US was more importing than exporting in 2001. I've recently seen a report on CNN International that expressed concern that in a lot of "key technologies" the US is dependent on foreign companies (One I remember being e.g. optical systems for military satellites and aiming systems mainly produced in the Netherlands).
I don't think any (industrialized) country over the world can afford an isolated economy anymore. If thats good or bad - well, that's another question...

[Trawler]

Originally Posted by MrsSkywalker

There is absolutely nothing a foreign country has that the US needs.

OIL!

And BTW, I come from Australia, which itself has vast extremes in weather/geography etc. But for the last four years I've been living abroad and travelling the world. Why? Because I like to understand others. And that's something you'll only have an extremely limited viewpoint of if you stick within your own country.

Oh, the money is a lot better over here too.