[MTd2]

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

Not for their CPU tech, certainly. Their engineering talent and GPG are worth buying though.

I think CPU engineers won't be very motivated to be treated as newbs when they start projectin GPUs.

Here's other solution for Nvidia. Just start doing x86 architectures, like Cyrix did. And later, negotiate a license with Intel.

[INKster]

Originally Posted by MTd2

Here's other solution for Nvidia. Just start doing x86 architectures, like Cyrix did. And later, negotiate a license with Intel.

Come on, the lawyers alone would eat them alive...

[ShaidarHaran]

Originally Posted by MTd2

I think CPU engineers won't be very motivated to be treated as newbs when they start projectin GPUs.

Here's other solution for Nvidia. Just start doing x86 architectures, like Cyrix did. And later, negotiate a license with Intel.

I never said NV was the perfect buyout candidate for AMD. All I'm saying is that AMD has assets that are worth buying. I would hate to see them bought out though, especially if its just to fleece the company.

[MTd2]

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

I never said NV was the perfect buyout candidate for AMD. All I'm saying is that AMD has assets that are worth buying. I would hate to see them bought out though, especially if its just to fleece the company.

But the worst issue is how to keep with competition on x86 front. Competition on GPU part is not a great issue right now.

[MTd2]

Originally Posted by INKster

Come on, the lawyers alone would eat them alive...

At least there would be a chance for x86 survive. Plus, there could be argued abusive marketing tactics against Intel.

[chavvdarrr]

well, if NV buys Via (for x86 license) AND AMD everything will be fine - they'll get IP&staff

[Arun]

VIA doesn't automagically give them a x86 license; however, it is a very strong leverage to negociate a new license. The most logical way to handle this situation would be to start negociations *before* the acquisition happens. I really don't think buying both VIA and AMD would make much sense. Heck, buying AMD at all wouldn't be very logical at all, so...

[MTd2]

Who CAN buy AMD anyway?


NVIDIA surely doesn't have the money. Whoever has a will to buy it is not an American, because most of them either don´t have the money or has too many ties with Intel to do it (IBM) . We know USA governament has a very protecionist view of its electronic industry, for a variety for whatever reasons. But I really don´t know to what extent.

For example, two big companies that could surely get a lead by buying it and shown proposals towards it, Samsung and TSMC, might be stopped by a USA governamental panel.Samsung is less likely, since it comes from an US ally. It has, though, a very different culture, extremely confuncionist. But TSMC, although is also from an ally, still share the same culture and language of mainland, and a great portion of its population is pro unification.




Hmmm, I just had this idea. I was wondering why AMD doesn´t outsource part of its x86 line of production, just for a while. I guess the answer it is that the contracts with Intel doesn´t allow an off house production, or severely limits it.

[Sc4freak]

Originally Posted by MTd2

Hmmm, I just had this idea. I was wondering why AMD doesn´t outsource part of its x86 line of production, just for a while. I guess the answer it is that the contracts with Intel doesn´t allow an off house production, or severely limits it.

IIRC AMD can't. I think there is some limitation as to how much AMD can outsource any of its production.

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran

I never said NV was the perfect buyout candidate for AMD. All I'm saying is that AMD has assets that are worth buying. I would hate to see them bought out though, especially if its just to fleece the company.

To a certain extent, a buyout from a big player(think IBM or the rumoured Samsung) would be a great thing for em'. Let's face it, they'll never have enough muscle to get into a proper brawl with Intel, they'll always be forced to wait for the lucky punch, the wrong step, and always be in a tight spot if their R&D doesn't get it on in a few iterations(see the eternally revamped K10 design and the poorish showing of Phenom). Such an aquisition would mean that they finally get access to a big cookie jar...the trouble is that there's no way to be certain that they'd be maintained as a top-down solution provider. Maybe the new masters'll only care about low-end value stuff, and that's the end of that(and it would suck beyond measure, monopolies aren't your friend...nor are corporations for that matter).

I think nV has the money to do it, but I think it would also put a strain on their resources and Jen Hsun isn't some hotheaded noobie. He'll probably count and measure such a significant move a billion times before(if) giving it the green light. Via would be an easier way in, as Arun said, but I dunno how adept their CPU engineers are(nor do I know how easily it would be for GPU ppl to start designing CPUs, so nV's current prowess WRT GPUs doesn't necessarily mean they'll hit the nail right on the head with CPUs). AMD's guys are top-notch, but they can be bled without actually getting AMD so....there are way too many variables and variants to consider.

[dizietsma]

Nvidia are best waiting to see if AMD dies like 3DFX died and then pick up the pieces.

I

[3dcgi]

Originally Posted by MTd2

Hmmm, I just had this idea. I was wondering why AMD doesn´t outsource part of its x86 line of production, just for a while. I guess the answer it is that the contracts with Intel doesn´t allow an off house production, or severely limits it.

AMD does outsource. Chartered makes some of the CPUs.

[Razor1]

did anyone notice dell is now selling 8800 gt's in home systems, but no HD36xx's yet?

[Arun]

I presume you wanted to say HD38xx? Also, did you mean DELL or Alienware? Because I definitely can't find any evidence of that on the former's website (and on the latter, there's a 3870 model, obviously).

[Geeforcer]

GT is availible as an option on several XPS systems.

[Arun]

Ah yes, my mistake - thankies. I didn't realize DELL quoted prices on an 'average' model rather than minimum ones, so I didn't bother checking PCs with 8800GTXs. And unsurprisingly, those are the ones you can use a 8800GT on.

Interestingly, the only major HD3870 design win right now is that 4GHz Penryn PC from Alienware. I wonder how much the chipset part of the equation played into that design win. X38 completely and utterly trounces 680i/780i in terms of CPU/memory performance, and by that point it must have become obvious 680i won't support Penryn.

It will be interesting to see what happens next in terms of major design wins...

[BRiT]

Originally Posted by Razor1

did anyone notice dell is now selling 8800 gt's in home systems, but no HD36xx's yet?

Didn't notice that, but they are selling the MSI 8800 GT OC for $208! That's one hell of a bargain.

[MTd2]

Originally Posted by 3dcgi

AMD does outsource. Chartered makes some of the CPUs.

So, Intel must severely limit the production of x86 chips on the contract. That is annoying... I bet any company would then be really pissed.

For example: AMD produces 100 000 units and the other company is limited to 10% of that. So, whatever production problem happens to the main company, the other will be severely suffer idlying problems, which is really, really bad for a fab...

So, I infer that, from what you wrote, Chartered is suffering considerable losses, because they also had to invest in the same kind of production and are getting no return for that.



The first benchmarks of Phenons X3 were published:

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=...&show=original

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=...&show=original

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=...&show=original

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=...mage_id=739610

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=622354

[Fox5]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if AMD outsources its trailing edge products to chartered, I'm not sure if a 3rd party fab is cutting edge enough to keep pace with the latest and greatest from AMD, IBM, and Intel. That said, the trailing edge stuff has the largest market for it, it'd be much easier to supply low end chips to OEMs without the restriction and then AMD's high end output could probably get by on just a single in house fab.

[Razor1]

Originally Posted by Arun

I presume you wanted to say HD38xx? Also, did you mean DELL or Alienware? Because I definitely can't find any evidence of that on the former's website (and on the latter, there's a 3870 model, obviously).

ah yeah thx for the correction. Well taked with a guy that works on the XPS systems they have been looking into the r38xx systems and phenom but so far nothing much then just looking. Looks like Inq is being a bit too optimisitic about "looking"

[Arun]

Hmm. Well, either that, or their definition of DELL is a bit too loose and they're including Alienware in there... I'll admit that the fact the highest-end Alienware uses HD3870s must be significant from a mindset/brand POV, but I'm far from convinced it matters (at all) from a financial POV given the volumes involved. And X38 vs 680i/780i likely had something to do with it, too.

[3dcgi]

Originally Posted by MTd2

So, Intel must severely limit the production of x86 chips on the contract. That is annoying... I bet any company would then be really pissed.

For example: AMD produces 100 000 units and the other company is limited to 10% of that. So, whatever production problem happens to the main company, the other will be severely suffer idlying problems, which is really, really bad for a fab...

So, I infer that, from what you wrote, Chartered is suffering considerable losses, because they also had to invest in the same kind of production and are getting no return for that.

I think it's a stretch to conclude any of that from my statement that some of AMD's manufacturing is outsourced to Chartered.

[MTd2]

Originally Posted by 3dcgi

I think it's a stretch to conclude any of that from my statement that some of AMD's manufacturing is outsourced to Chartered.

You said chartered does some of the CPUs.

[3dcgi]

Originally Posted by MTd2

You said chartered does some of the CPUs.

Yes, but that does not imply that Chartered is suffering serious losses or that Intel seriously limits the production of x86 chips on contract.

[MTd2]

Originally Posted by 3dcgi

Yes, but that does not imply that Chartered is suffering serious losses or that Intel seriously limits the production of x86 chips on contract.

I did not either say that Chartered is suffering heavy losses, just that it is having losses, with AMD. But that is also awful for AMD, since they lose confidence. Also, it is a mystery for me why AMD doesn't outsource their production just for a few months. I cannot think of something that is not caused by contract limitation.