[ChryZ]

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t272-s2132851,00.html

PlayStation 3 may run on Linux
11:44 Wednesday 2nd April 2003
John Lui, CNET Asia

Engineers from Sony and BMW are looking at embedded Linux for use in future products, according to the Linux Technology Group

Pop open the bonnet of the next-generation Sony PlayStation game console or a BMW 745i sedan and you may well see Linux inside, said a member of the group promoting the growth of the open-source operating system.

Sam Greenblatt, a senior vice-president with Computer Associates (CA) and chief architect of its Linux Technology Group, told CNETAsia that Sony and BMW engineers were looking at switching to Linux.

"Embedded Linux free, is easy to deploy and has interoperability and backwards-compatibility standards," he said, explaining the appeal of the software. It also opens up opportunities for hardware makers to add advanced features as well as new avenues for game developers create and distribute software, he said.

Embedded Linux is a small-footprint version of the desktop and server operating system. It has been created for consumer devices and is promoted by the Embedded Linux Consortium. CA is a member and has developed over 60 software packages for Linux environments.

Today, enthusiasts can buy a Sony kit for the PlayStation 2 (PS2) that enables it to run Linux. Sony officials have said they are testing groups of Linux-powered PS2s hooked up in grids in an effort to boost processing speed.

The next version of the console, due in 2005, may run embedded Linux natively, said Greenblatt.

Embedded Linux's native ability to multi-task and handle multiple users lends itself to networked gaming. Linux consoles with a hard drive can store downloaded games, allowing for subscription-based usage, he said.

Recent moves by the consortium to establish guidelines that ensure greater uniformity should stop the fragmentation that can occur in open-source software, where each developer is allowed to make changes to the underlying structure of the operating system, he said.

In addition, he said that engineers at German vehicle maker BMW are also looking at embedded Linux to run the iDrive computer in the 745i sedan. The iDrive system was created to bring all car management systems under central "single-knob" control, but has gained notoriety for its glitches. It uses Microsoft's Windows CE operating system, a rival of embedded Linux.

Many blame poor application coding, but others say the fault lies with the operating system itself.

"Theoretically, Beemer drivers can adjust anything, move forward and not take their eyes off the road. But that assumes that iDrive is working," said Greenblatt.

"The work has progressed to look at Linux. I cannot speak for BMW but they are actively working on a more robust solution based on Linux, according to their engineers," he said.

Elsewhere, NEC and Sony sell Linux-based consumer electronics devices such as personal video recorders, while Motorola plans to use Linux for the majority of its mobile phones. IBM is working on using Linux for handheld computers.

Despite the enthusiasm shown for embedded Linux from some quarters, several developers are finding it hard to make a profit. Recently, one of them, Embedix, was bought up by Motorola.

[Simon F]

Originally Posted by the subject

"PlayStation 3 may run on Linux"

What? Emulated?

[ChryZ]

Originally Posted by Simon F

What? Emulated

Does the X-Box emulates it's bios-stored win2k-kernel ?

[Sonic]

Someone didn't catch the humor.

[Squeak]

In don’t know… Linux seems to me like a bit of an odd choice, for a console with multiple small processors. Much good can be said of Linux but the philosophy behind it isn’t exactly state of the art (monolithic OS).
If Sony want a small, flexible and POSIX compliant OS something like QNXses Neutrino looks more appropriate to me.

[DeanoC]

Engineers from Sony and BMW are looking at embedded Linux for use in future products, according to the Linux Technology Group.

At first I read that as Sony were working with BMW to put Linux on PlayStation 3. I didn't know that BMW were famous at porting operating systems
:P

[ChryZ]

Originally Posted by Sonic

Someone didn't catch the humor. :lol:

Argh, ... now I got it, me not native tongue english ... missed joke, sorry Simon (°___° ;)

"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"? , Ralph Wiggum

[tuna]

I don't think the GNU/Linux base will be used when the Playstation is in pure 'game mode'.
But, it will probably be used as the base for the added functions that Sony might put in the PS3. We can look at the broadband platform they have launched in Japan as one indiciation how this will look. Of course, the PS2Linux kit is another way it can go. PVR functions are another way to go, maybe as an addon (similar to MS Xbox DVD addon).

And when the PS3 is in these modes, the technical quality of the underlying OS probably won't be that important since the PS3 should have enough power to handle anything. So the Linux codebase seems like a good choice, especially since it is FREE (GNU-sense) and has a lot of mindshare.

[Jabjabs]

A few years ago they said PS2 would run on Linux, didn't happen. Maybe now that MS is threatning them for ease and power in the development circle they are finally trying to put some standard technology into their machines instead of their crazy chip designs.

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by Jabjabs

A few years ago they said PS2 would run on Linux, didn't happen. Maybe now that MS is threatning them for ease and power in the development circle they are finally trying to put some standard technology into their machines instead of their crazy chip designs.

it may not run on Linux but i think putting out the Linux Kit is a big step for them... my 2 cents...

[ChryZ]

Originally Posted by Jabjabs

A few years ago they said PS2 would run on Linux, didn't happen. Maybe now that MS is threatning them for ease and power in the development circle they are finally trying to put some standard technology into their machines instead of their crazy chip designs.

I gave this some thought, on the PS2 is no need for embedded linux ... if you need linux get a linux-kit, boot it, done!

PS3, different story, bigger plans .... cell-power grid processing, home-networks, loadsharing between devices like PS3/HDTV/Amp, japanese companies developing home devices powered by linux, IBMs Linux efforts lately. Embedded linux would make perfect sense for PS3, time will tell ...

[MfA]

Load sharing? So the TV is going to tell you "Sorry, I cant show more PIP screens right now ... your son is playing a game"? Or will graphics quality in games go down the moment someone turns on the tv?

[Tagrineth]

Originally Posted by MfA

Load sharing? So the TV is going to tell you "Sorry, I cant show more PIP screens right now ... your son is playing a game"? Or will graphics quality in games go down the moment someone turns on the tv?

Er... yeah... let's just route our Cable signal through the PS3 instead of the cable box... or watch a DVD- wait, isn't the DVD drive being used already for a game?

What you say is not only ridiculous (intentionally), but also impossible.

[jvd]

Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Er... yeah... let's just route our Cable signal through the PS3 instead of the cable box... or watch a DVD- wait, isn't the DVD drive being used already for a game?

What you say is not only ridiculous (intentionally), but also impossible.

Well tag , lodgic would dictate that if your playing a game on your ps3 and it is on a grid with your tv , stero and amp . If you crank up the sounds or or put on a better quality sound scheme it may take resources away from something else in the grid. Unless they are built with extra power that they don't need.

I'm adding the fact that i doubt the ps3 will do any of what they want it to , it will just be a step that way .

[MfA]

Load sharing is impossible.

[Tagrineth]

Originally Posted by jvd

Well tag , lodgic would dictate that if your playing a game on your ps3 and it is on a grid with your tv , stero and amp . If you crank up the sounds or or put on a better quality sound scheme it may take resources away from something else in the grid. Unless they are built with extra power that they don't need.

I'm adding the fact that i doubt the ps3 will do any of what they want it to , it will just be a step that way .

Well in that case the Grid should be powerful enough to support all that in the first place

[jvd]

Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Well in that case the Grid should be powerful enough to support all that in the first place

]

keyword should .

[ChryZ]

Originally Posted by MfA

Load sharing? So the TV is going to tell you "Sorry, I cant show more PIP screens right now ... your son is playing a game"? Or will graphics quality in games go down the moment someone turns on the tv?

Nope, "default:1080i/p-whatever@60fps"@PS3 autonomes computing [http://www-3.ibm.com/autonomic/index.shtml] via grid checks the "neighborhood", wow there is a HDTV doin' *NO* PIP at the moment great(!) == idle == unused power == something to dump some load on .... whoops more fps/ai/physics @ PS3.

BS? Donno ... but many years ago loads of stuff was considered 'impossible', until someone proofed "them" wrong. I would be happy to see something accele way beyond x86 ... bust my knees and call me a dreamer.

[Panajev2001a]

I think we are not ready for that kind of load sharing in 2005 time-frame... expect more like fast communication and ease of inter-operation between two Cell based devices thanks to the uniform ISA and the ease software Cells/Apulets migrate with...

[Vince]

Originally Posted by MfA

Load sharing is impossible.

For the PS3 of course, why you'd even ask that initially had me a bit confused For a RT app like that, programming to it would be damn near impossible, but then again you probobly told me this!

Anyways, as I stated (as part of a larger, although fallicious argument, but this part was correct) it's only a matter of time untill GRID based computing becomes the de facto standard for most computing needs that aren't RT. Scientific American has an article on the GRIDS, both those already implimented and those planned and how it'll totally reshape the current internat topography by making much computing a utility - they even used the same parallels I once did of moving from well based water supplies to utility based, et al.

It seems obvious that in the comming age of pervasive computing; a form of GRID based computing (eg. sharing of resources) id enevitable. If for no other reason that convienence and removing the consumer from the gitty details. Just as I don't boil or test my Water's pH, my grandkids won't be installing their rehash of WindowsXP or new drivers.

[FiggyG]

OMG!!! I don't want a penguin in my BMW... and even worse, a PS3

I guess there's always some crazy Japanese suishi shop open, so that takes care of penguin, as for PS3... I can think of a few friends with less than decent computers to send to

:P