[Mize]

For those readers in other parts of the world that are dumbfounded by US attitudes on this war, understand that our media are caving to our government and refusing to air:

any footage of US POWs (we do get to see Iraqi POWs though)
any footage of Iraqi civilian casualties
any footage of damaged civilian structures (apartments for instance)
substantial footage of any anti-war protests around the world
substantial reporting on the water crisis in Basra

If you understand this distorted image of the world that the US population is being presented then perhaps you can understand the naive attitudes of so many in the US population...

So much for the free press.

Mize
(ducks as all the "you're a communist!" twits rev their engines)

[Joe DeFuria]

any footage of US POWs (we do get to see Iraqi POWs though)

Wrong, I have seen much footage of US POWs. And I have not seen any footage of Iraqi POWs in any context other than the actual surrendering process.

any footage of Iraqi civilian casualties

True, I have not yet visually seen Iraqi civilian casualties, though they have been reported on.

any footage of damaged civilian structures (apartments for instance)

Again, not seen visually (doesn't help that US media has been kicked out of Baghdad).

substantial footage of any anti-war protests around the world

Are you kidding?

substantial reporting on the water crisis in Basra

Please define "substantial?" It's been reported on with every news site I've seen. Do you mean "sensationalize?"

If you understand this distorted image of the world that the US population is being presented then perhaps you can understand the naive attitudes of so many in the US population...

[covermye]

understand that our media are caving to our government and refusing to air:

any footage of US POWs (we do get to see Iraqi POWs though)

Wrong. I saw footage of US POW's just last night (the two Apache pilots). I also saw censored clips of the original POW footage. Why the hell is this a negative? Of what benefit would it be to show closeups of the dead POW's that Iraq had?

any footage of Iraqi civilian casualties

Well, I haven't seen closeups, but I HAVE seen TONS of reports about this being a huge negative of the war. You're reaching for a "conspiracy" that's not there. It would just be in poor taste to show civilian casualties in detail as news footage. Everyone knows it's happenned. Why put it on primetime news? Hint: It's not because the US media "caved" to the government.

any footage of damaged civilian structures (apartments for instance)

Wrong. Saw visual evidence of this more than once so far.

substantial footage of any anti-war protests around the world
substantial reporting on the water crisis in Basra

Substantial must be in the eye of the beholder. I've seen anti-war protests all over the TV since the war started (before, actually). We've had substantial coverage of anti-war events in this area (Chicago/Indy news) on our local news channels.

Just this morning, I saw on FOX news a report about the water problem in Basra and how troops are currently assembling above-ground pipelines to help solve the issue.

If you understand this distorted image of the world that the US population is being presented then perhaps you can understand the naive attitudes of so many in the US population...

Please! Distortion exists on all sides. As for your quote about "naive attitutdes", ditto.

[Mize]

IMHO the US media is being used to form US public opinion on the war. In '91 we got to see footage of collateral damage (civilian deaths) - today we get no such footage even though it is airing all over the rest of the world (it has NOTHING to do with throwing out US reporters). We're also not seeing the anger of the Iraqi civilian population which is airing elsewhere. Even the BBC is covering these things while sources such as CNN and FOX are spinning this thing as positively as they can.

The sad fact is that the US media is biased in favor of this war...to quote a foreign journalist, the staff of FOX news exhibited "palpable glee" at the outbreak of war. It's being presented as a video game and not a war. I think that our *not* seeing the coverage that the rest of the world is seeing puts us drastically out of touch with the realities of this war and makes us look like imperialist twits.

Mize

[epicstruggle]

Yes, I guess I should have seen this coming. Blame the oil people, Blame the military people, blame the right wing people. Now blame the media. Who are you going to blame next?

Ps, ive seen alot of coverage of the US POW. Ive heard alot about the water/food crisis in Basra. Even from koffi anan(sp?). How do you expect the US media to cover baghdad, when the CNN reporters are kicked out. There have been reports of civilian deaths. Sorry if you like to see dead bodies, but I dont and Im sure most americans dont want to see it either.

later,

[RussSchultz]

Originally Posted by Mize

any footage of Iraqi civilian casualties

That's the only one I'll agree with you on, but I believe that its not anything new.

We generally don't have such grizzly pictures on the news, for any conflict, ours or other peoples. We certainly don't dwell on them like Al Jazeera and the other Arab medias have.

Al Jazeera, just like Fox, gets their money indirectly through pandering to their audience. The audience wants to see the US as demons, they want to see all the pain and suffering so they can blame it on the zionists.

And yes, there's is a US reporter presence in Bagdad. Peter Arnett is there, as is some CBS reporters. Though I have noticed that Peter Arnett is no longer broadcasting video like he was on the first day.

[Mize]

Nate Thayer is there too although he and his handlers are telling people he German to keep him alive. Here's his latest on the anger of Iraqi civilians towards Americans: http://www.msnbc.com/news/889982.asp

I agree that Al Jazeera panders to their audience with more footage of the civilian carnage, but the US networks and papers are showing NONE. This is entirely different than either Kosovo or the '91 war....why? Don't tell me it's because the journalists were kicked out - the footage is available if they want to tell the whole story.

Mize

[epicstruggle]

During 9/11 there were many shots of people who were jumping from the buildings, but this was not shown on tv. Later, some of the cnn reporters said that they had decided not to show the bodies on the ground. Its usual for the media in the US not to show that kinda stuff. Its very rare. Not sure if there is an audience for that stuff, at least in the US.

later,

[Mize]

Originally Posted by RussSchultz

We generally don't have such grizzly pictures on the news, for any conflict, ours or other peoples.

Huh? How do you figure? We've shown carnage unlimited from suicide bomb attacks in Israel...we showed horrendously grissly footage from Somalia...we showed terribly graphic images during the '91 war as well. Maybe I'm overly affected by this thing (my goddaughter is Iraqi), but it seems the US media is shielding the public from the realities of this war.

Mize

[Mize]

Originally Posted by epicstruggle

During 9/11 there were many shots of people who were jumping from the buildings, but this was not shown on tv. Later, some of the cnn reporters said that they had decided not to show the bodies on the ground. Its usual for the media in the US not to show that kinda stuff. Its very rare. Not sure if there is an audience for that stuff, at least in the US.

later,

Sorry to burst this bubble, but I have the images of people jumping from the trade towers emblazed in my memory - it was certainly shown on TV...something I'll never forget.

Mize

[Joe DeFuria]

[quote="Mize"]his latest on the anger of Iraqi civilians towards Americans: http://www.msnbc.com/news/889982.asp

Gee...I thought stuff like that wasn't reported by the American media?

This is entirely different than either Kosovo or the '91 war....why?

Is it different?

Don't tell me it's because the journalists were kicked out -

I said it doesn't help.

In other words, if you don't obtain the footage YOURSELF, and are getting info from OTHER "news sources", then there are decisions to be made on how reliable and accurate the footage is.

the footage is available if they want to tell the whole story.

Or if they want to tell the story that they have no way of knowing the legitimacy or accuracy.

U.S. media is trying to not show POW videos, for example, until the Penatagon acknowledges them as at least likely to be legit, and the families are notified first..

[RussSchultz]

Originally Posted by Mize

Huh? How do you figure? We've shown carnage unlimited from suicide bomb attacks in Israel...we showed horrendously grissly footage from Somalia...we showed terribly graphic images during the '91 war as well. Maybe I'm overly affected by this thing (my goddaughter is Iraqi), but it seems the US media is shielding the public from the realities of this war.

I'm sorry, we generally do not show pictures of babies with half their heads. We don't show gaping wounds with bones protruding. We don't dwell on closeups of people with bullet wounds to their foreheads.

Normally, that which is shown on news channels here is corpses from a distance, blood on the walls, dead covered by blankets, etc. And those are generally only as stills or as short clips as backdrops for the talking head story.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Joe DeFuria

Gee...I thought stuff like that wasn't reported by the American media?

Did you see how far I had to dig for it? Do you really think the average American will read this? Why doesn't FOX or CNN report on it?

As I said above - maybe I'm a bit emotionally connected with this thing and it slants my interpretation of things, but I honestly feel the reporting we've seen domestically is biased in favor of the video-game mentality toward war.

Mize

[Mize]

Originally Posted by RussSchultz

I'm sorry, we generally do not show pictures of babies with half their heads. We don't show gaping wounds with bones protruding. We don't dwell on closeups of people with bullet wounds to their foreheads.

Normally, that which is shown on news channels here is corpses from a distance, blood on the walls, dead covered by blankets, etc. And those are generally only as stills or as short clips as backdrops for the talking head story.

I'm certainly not asking for that kind of grissly imagery...just shots akin to what you see in the European or even British media...bandaged children, fathers weeping over dead or wounded children. War is ugly and this is far from a "clean" mission. Americans should know that when they form their opinions.

Mize

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by Mize

Did you see how far I had to dig for it? Do you really think the average American will read this? Why doesn't FOX or CNN report on it?

So you just think it should be sensationalized and headlined, and not simply reported on.

As I said above - maybe I'm a bit emotionally connected with this thing and it slants my interpretation of things, but I honestly feel the reporting we've seen domestically is biased in favor of the video-game mentality toward war.

I do understand where you're coming from, and I do agree that much of the U.S. journalists, at least initially, does have that "video-game" like mentality. However, I don't see that as hindering their reporting of the facts.

[MrsSkywalker]

And yes, there's is a US reporter presence in Bagdad. Peter Arnett is there, as is some CBS reporters. Though I have noticed that Peter Arnett is no longer broadcasting video like he was on the first day.

In a call-in-to-report segment he said that they are not allowed to leave their hotel anymore. They did show that Iraqis "searching for spec ops guys" crap the other day, but that was, conveniently, right in front of the hotel. The images they have been showing are pretty much all from that hotel roof, and there really didn't seem like they can see too much from up there... The city is really big, housing nearly 5 million citizens. How much can you see from the roof of one hotel? Not sure how much that has to do with it, but that's what he said when he called in.

[epicstruggle]

Originally Posted by Mize

I'm certainly not asking for that kind of grissly imagery...just shots akin to what you see in the European or even British media...bandaged children, fathers weeping over dead or wounded children. War is ugly and this is far from a "clean" mission. Americans should know that when they form their opinions.
Mize

Are you talking about things like this. Ive seen these images quite a bit on cnn:
child bandaged


civilian structure destroyed

man crying

Other images






I wish I could encode and distribute video from cnn. because i do see every you think they dont. they just dont show it every other second.

I hope I have informed you abit.
later,

[Sharkfood]

Why doesn't FOX or CNN report on it?

Both have reported on every item you have listed in your original post... with the exception of the water shortage in Basra, which I've only seen FOX report (with a somewhat positive spin, explaining Coalition forces have been working hard to restore water as well as electricity in the war ravaged city.. and hope to have this established in the next 24-48 hours).

[MrsSkywalker]

Did you see how far I had to dig for it?

Um, MSNBC is digging?

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally Posted by RussSchultz

I'm sorry, we generally do not show pictures of babies with half their heads. We don't show gaping wounds with bones protruding. We don't dwell on closeups of people with bullet wounds to their foreheads.

Clarification needed.

We ARE shown such things, but not typically by the media. It's shown by the "entertainment" industry....you know...those guys who in the majority are "opposed to war and violence".

[Sxotty]

I think he just wanted to say that the US media is as full of deceit and lies as other media around the world, but unfortuantely it isn't oh well.

I have seen plenty of what you described, and I saw stuff about the food and water shortage quite early on PBS, which is government owned basically so our government is discusing Iraqi civillian casulties, and the water/humanitaria crisis. The Brits are about to get alot worse casulties going in to Basara simply to help out the humanitarian problem, and all people do is complain that we caused it, well there is quite a bit of evidence showing that Saddam's forces shut off the water to basara, not the coalition (and even if we do this sort of thing which most suggest we should, it is accidental)

Unfortunately just showing dead bodies doesn't mean very much or change anything unless you can establish who, how, why. And the same goes for casulties.

1718: Popular uprising reported in Basra. British troops said to be firing into the city where Iraqi soldiers were shooting at civilian protesters.

thats from the bbc, so when you see Iraqi civilians dead remeber who killed them is important

[Mize]

deleted

Yes, pictures like that are exactly what I'm talking about - I've not seen them on CNN or FOX at all. Where did you get those? I read cnn's front page several times a day and never found those there.

I hope I have informed you abit.
later,

That you have.

Mize

[Heathen]

Talking of reporting, seems the inhabitants of Basra have had enough of Saddam and are launching a popular uprising against any pro-saddam forces in the city. British forces are currently providing fire support and are preapring to move into the city.

[Mize]

Originally Posted by Heathen

Talking of reporting, seems the inhabitants of Basra have had enough of Saddam and are launching a popular uprising against any pro-saddam forces in the city. British forces are currently providing fire support and are preapring to move into the city.

I really hope this is true. We need some positive news.

Mize

[Heathen]

Well I'm watching live on TV, I almost feel sorry for the Pro saddam force the inhabitants of Basra are REALLY REALLY pissed.