[patsu]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

Yes, it is. there is barely any game in there, and what thre it's horrible - pressing pre-choreographed QTEs For a game that is all "movie", i.e. storyline and characters, there are GIGANTIC problems with both of them. If you want a good narrative/emotional experience, what's stopping from reading a good book or watch a good movie?

Because the added interaction augmented the immersion... like chopping off the lead guy's pinky yourself. ^_^

Or at at least, play a handful games with good/decent stories. And once again, sorry, but people who are "entertained", by it, i.e enjoyed it, most likely means they haven't paid much attention what they were watch.. err, playing . What "mattered" to them was objectively an utter mess. I can only imagine what kind of movies and books they like, when they can forgive a failure of this magnitude.

It's usually the other way round. You watched your friend play for 5 hours but didn't get anything out of it. It may mean you were not interested or not paying attention in the first place.

if you already have a fixed idea for what has to happen, then you are less likely or won't be able to take in new perspectives.

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by patsu

It's usually the other way round. You watched your friend play for 5 hours but didn't get anything out of it. It may mean you were not interested or not paying attention in the first place

No, I was talking about HR in that paragh, not LAN. Sorry for the confusion.

[patsu]

My points remain unchanged.

[green.pixel]

Ok, if you say so . I'm not going to bother convincing people into hating/liking anything, they should be experienced enough to figure it out themselves.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

Ok, if you say so . I'm not going to bother convincing people into hating/liking anything, they should [be able to] figure it out themselves.

Finally.

[green.pixel]

But that still doesn't mean that they are right . Following that logic, any game/movie/book/anything is omg so good, fantastic!, and we shouldn't be critical of them. That task by its nature, is comparative. As one becomes more experienced and its tastes mature, sooner or later, it becomes more demanding from any medium. And with games, it comes down to more interesting and challenging designs and mechanics/interaction, regardless of the genre.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

But that still doesn't mean that they are right . Following that logic, any game/movie/book/anything is omg so good, fantastic!, and we shouldn't be critical of them. That task by its nature, is comparative. As one becomes more experienced and its tastes mature, sooner or later, it becomes more demanding from any medium. And with games, it comes down to more interesting and challenging designs and mechanics/interaction, regardless of the genre.

Sure. But by the same token, it remains the case that what any individual thinks of a game/movie/book/anything is highly subjective. The only objective criteria that can be defined in terms of liking something, is that the greater number of 'subjects' like a game/movie/book/anything, the more objectively that game/movie/book/anything is likeable.

Objectivity is in the end what we agree with the largest number of people to be true. Those with the maturest tastes are almost by definition less likely to be in large numbers, so they are in that sense more subjective than what the 'majority' likes. In other words, casuals are by definition more right than hardcore gamers. On the other hand, hardcore gamers are, through their experience, more demanding, so they are also willing to pay more money for a deeper experience, so that may, fortunately, balance out somewhat, or the hardcore would be starved of good games pretty quickly.

But what you have to realise is that even hardcore gameres/movie-goers/readers/anything are typically hardcore only in one or a few 'genres'. They only play shooters, or racers, but often not both for instance. And then games that fill a niche demand, like good adventure / puzzle / detective, will be appreciated more easily because they don't have any competition and the demand for them is there. As joker for instance mentioned, a game that you can play with your spouse fills a specific demand. The same goes for games you can play with, or even in front of (!) your kid(s). Etc.

A more 'mature' taste is not necessarily better. It can also be more cynical, jaded, specialist - someone who has had only solo-sex his whole life may become an expert in auto-erotic asphyxiation, but does that really make him 'better' or even 'happier'?

More useful is an understanding of craftmanship - why a game/movie/book/anything works in a certain way or with a certain audience, and then use that knowledge to find or create something that someone you know (or you yourself) will like and appreciate. As a literary major myself (with narrative technique as a specialty), this is the skill I personally enjoy most. For many other things, I find being able to see through narrative structures like plain glass is often somewhat of a nuisance - it is hard to be surprised by something.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by green.pixel

But that still doesn't mean that they are right . Following that logic, any game/movie/book/anything is omg so good, fantastic!, and we shouldn't be critical of them. That task by its nature, is comparative. As one becomes more experienced and its tastes mature, sooner or later, it becomes more demanding from any medium. And with games, it comes down to more interesting and challenging designs and mechanics/interaction, regardless of the genre.

Yes and no. You can also become more critical by streamlining and removing ingredients. The creators are certainly free to explore new direction and perspectives. It all depends on personal tastes/target audience, trend/fashion and culture. There is no right or wrong per se. The impressionists were considered "wrong" at first.

[BoardBonobo]

Originally Posted by Arwin

.... It can also be more cynical, jaded, specialist - someone who has had only solo-sex his whole life may become an expert in auto-erotic asphyxiation, but does that really make him 'better' or even 'happier'?...

That has to be the most out there analogy ever!! Comparing the relatively safe format of game playing to someone who garrots themselves with a pair of tights whilst stuffing an orange up their ass... though I suppose with kinnect you could make a game out of that

[Scott_Arm]

Originally Posted by Arwin

A more 'mature' taste is not necessarily better. It can also be more cynical, jaded, specialist - someone who has had only solo-sex his whole life may become an expert in auto-erotic asphyxiation, but does that really make him 'better' or even 'happier'?

The greatest post in Beyond3d history.

[patsu]

Ha ha I totally missed that paragraph ! Certainly open up my world view.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by BoardBonobo

That has to be the most out there analogy ever!! Comparing the relatively safe format of game playing to someone who garrots themselves with a pair of tights whilst stuffing an orange up their ass... though I suppose with kinnect you could make a game out of that

Are you sure? A few people playing World of Warcraft for days on end without sleeping have died from a heart-attack, probably blood-clot and/or dehydration induced, and just recently a mother got convicted for letting her child starve in 2009 because of addiction to the same game.

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/06/0...years-for.html

Now compare that to the guy that I got the phrase from (I read that in the newspaper, probably a British one since I was studying English Lit back then. I was impressed and the phrase "auto-erotic asphyxiation" became stuck in my memory as one of the greatest ever. The article included a drawing of how he did it, which was pretty amazing if you think about it though I recommend you not to ):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Milligan

Now you tell me which one of them is more extreme?

[RenegadeRocks]

Wow ! This thread is so interesting ! And here I was avoiding it thinking its about a game where u watch poly replicas of real faces and try to decipher what the real faces were really doing at the time they were mapped on to their poly replicas instead of watching the real faces themselves and solving the crime then n there !

Jokes besides, Arwin has brought some sense into the green.pixel discussion (now) spanning 2 threads !

I havent reacted to greenpixels posts uptill now because if we go by his argument of reading a novel if we need a good narrative, then the whOle adventure game genre should be totally unenjoyable and boring ! But that hasn't been the case all these years ! We have a long history of adventure games behind us and HR and LA Noire are just re imaginations of that !

[green.pixel]

Originally Posted by RenegadeRocks

Wow ! This thread is so interesting ! And here I was avoiding it thinking its about a game where u watch poly replicas of real faces and try to decipher what the real faces were really doing at the time they were mapped on to their poly replicas instead of watching the real faces themselves and solving the crime then n there !

Jokes besides, Arwin has brought some sense into the green.pixel discussion (now) spanning 2 threads !

I havent reacted to greenpixels posts uptill now because if we go by his argument of reading a novel if we need a good narrative, then the whOle adventure game genre should be totally unenjoyable and boring ! But that hasn't been the case all these years ! We have a long history of adventure games behind us and HR and LA Noire are just re imaginations of that !

One of them is a horrible game, and the other not a particularly good one either.

Some of the adventure games are glorified books with some crazy puzzles. The narrative in adventure games (like in all games) serves to set the stage for the game part, interaction, which is problem solving and exploration, interaction with NPCs, etc. If you remove those, you don't have a game. And if the storytelling parts are bad you end up with a bad movie/plot. You can find much better stories in (good) books, of any genre, why whould search them for in a game and want to waste time like that? It almost sounds like some people don't want to read or watch anything, just to experience stuff (even if it's bad) in their preffered hobby, which is just silly IMO.

@Arwin: I agreee with most of your post.

[nightshade]

Can we please stop with this already?

[poopypoo]

Seriously. I enjoy a good video game debate more than most, and have been known by my friends to be shockingly contrary from time to time. But if you're so confident of your opinion, you need to let things go after awhile. You haven't brought anything new to the thread in a couple pages. You said your piece, now get some peace.

[joker454]

I must be crazy because I enjoyed both LA Noire and Heavy Rain

[patsu]

Laa Yosh... watch this !
http://gizmodo.com/5814813/can-you-f...beautiful-girl

Look at this video closely [Video in the link above]. You can see the seven members of AKB48 advertising some Japanese candy. Among them, center stage, is the lovely girl that you can see in the gallery and on top, Eguchi Aimi. She looks just like the others, all big eyes, juicy lips, perfect cheeks, cute chin, blinding smile and angelical look. Look at her sing. So cute.

...

The fact is that yes, she looks exactly like the others. Literally. The big eyes, the juicy lips, the perfect cheeks, the cute chin, the blinding smile and the angelical look belong to the other six member of AKB48. Eguchi Aimi is not a real person, she has been composed in a computer using parts from her fellow band members. Her fans, who are legion, just learned about it this week, when this shocking video demonstrating the process, was published in YouTube.

[Laa-Yosh]

That's so creepy it nearly hurts. Seriously, it's a 2D result, no matter how much 3D scanning they did, it's still fake and wouldn't work in any other way. And it's creepy, have I mentioned that yet?

[patsu]

Muahahaha... all your bases shall belong to lulz fembots one day.

[itsmydamnation]

the dev studio that made L.A. Noire has gone bust
http://www.gamepron.com/news/2011/08...dministration/

[Beef Stallmer]

Originally Posted by itsmydamnation

the dev studio that made L.A. Noire has gone bust
http://www.gamepron.com/news/2011/08...dministration/

shame

[Laa-Yosh]

The shame was the amount and extent of abuse the devs had to endure there.