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Old 02-May-2007, 03:19   #4101
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Originally Posted by Topman View Post
R600 XTX dual-gpu?
Impossible...
hmmm, a vision: external box(whisper@TheInq) with dual R600 + advanced cooling(WC?TEC?) + dedicated PSU (like some VGAs@Asus) + 'Lasso' ?

>>> US$ 999,00?

bye
It already exists. They call it Quadro Plex.
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Old 02-May-2007, 03:33   #4102
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Old 02-May-2007, 03:50   #4103
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Palit = new AMD partner?
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Old 02-May-2007, 03:52   #4104
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Palit = new AMD partner?
Nope. They have a number of current AMD products too.
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Old 02-May-2007, 03:57   #4105
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Nope. They have a number of current AMD products too.
My mistake then, I wasnt aware of it.
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Old 02-May-2007, 04:01   #4106
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How much latency for data going through a crossbar, if it comes in one side of the chip but needs to be over on the other side?

Put another way, what proportion of the latency is wire delay and how much is architecture-specific logic? Crossbar versus ring bus.
There should only be a few clock cycles delay between entering and leaving the crossbar itself. So in that case, assuming no stalls, the difference is entirely in the propagation delay. Worst case, that would be double for a ring? In practice, I expect it to be less. But even if it's only, say, 30% more instead of 100%, that's a lot of additional buffering.
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Old 02-May-2007, 04:10   #4107
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Excellent slide, Topman!

Ouch, it looks like they abandoned 32-bit MCs! That would go a long way explaining the horrible GDDR4 XTX benchmark numbers of DT. I suppose they had no choice with a 512-bit bus?
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Old 02-May-2007, 06:00   #4108
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Excellent slide, Topman!

Ouch, it looks like they abandoned 32-bit MCs! That would go a long way explaining the horrible GDDR4 XTX benchmark numbers of DT. I suppose they had no choice with a 512-bit bus?

The diagram shows two chips. Each channel seems to be made up of two 32-bit chips, making it a 64-bit channel. I don't think they'd be silly enough to use 64-bit chips as that would add to the cost even more.
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Old 02-May-2007, 06:34   #4109
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The diagram shows two chips. Each channel seems to be made up of two 32-bit chips, making it a 64-bit channel. I don't think they'd be silly enough to use 64-bit chips as that would add to the cost even more.
Well, if they want to have 64bits then they would have to make it themselves since standard Gddr3/4/5 memory chip are all x32.
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Old 02-May-2007, 06:43   #4110
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I don't think they'd be silly enough to use 64-bit chips as that would add to the cost even more.
Especially since they don't exist!
What I meant is: with R520, ATI introduced a MC that could talk independently to each 32-bit RAM. In the past, it had a 64-bit MC and treated 2 32-bit chips as 1 wide 64-bit chip. The 32-bit granularity has the advantage that you can access memory in smaller blocks, which won't make a difference in the best case, but can be much better in the worst case. The disadvantage is that it requires 1 external address/command bus per chip instead of 1 for 2 chips: more pins and more wires on the PCB.

With R600, they seem to have reverted to the old way. Probably because of too many wires...

Most (all?) GDDR3 has a burst length of 4. With a 64-bit wide bus, that gives an access granularity of 4*64/8 = 32 bytes: even if you need to read or write only 1 byte, you *have* to read or write all of them. A big waste of bandwidth. GDDR4 has a burst length of 8, which makes the worst case twice as bad as for GDDR3.

BL is a problem with all current DRAMs, so it's definitely not restricted to GPUs alone.

(Going from BL4 to BL8 is the main reason why GDDR4 can more easily be clocked higher, BTW.)
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Old 02-May-2007, 07:44   #4111
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Because they're filling in the gap with the XTX?
If the XT performs like the 8800 GTX or even Ultra then AMD would have no problem selling the XTX for > 600$
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Old 02-May-2007, 07:57   #4112
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Originally Posted by silent_guy View Post
With R600, they seem to have reverted to the old way. Probably because of too many wires...

Most (all?) GDDR3 has a burst length of 4. With a 64-bit wide bus, that gives an access granularity of 4*64/8 = 32 bytes: even if you need to read or write only 1 byte, you *have* to read or write all of them. A big waste of bandwidth. GDDR4 has a burst length of 8, which makes the worst case twice as bad as for GDDR3.

BL is a problem with all current DRAMs, so it's definitely not restricted to GPUs alone.
Does the G80 also use 64-bit channels? I'm guessing so since it loses that much going from the GTX to the GTS.

Last edited by Reputator; 02-May-2007 at 10:18.
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Old 02-May-2007, 08:12   #4113
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If the XT performs like the 8800 GTX or even Ultra then AMD would have no problem selling the XTX for > 600$
Sure they would. That market is probably already pretty saturated since 8800GTX has been out many months. No reason why a equal part should fly off shelves for the same price.

$500 might make sense in that scenario, though...

BTW, about these upgraded TMU's, it seems they simply massively sped up the TMU's in regards to HDR? If that's the case how wise is that? It does seem most games will be HDR going forward.
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Old 02-May-2007, 08:21   #4114
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Sure they would. That market is probably already pretty saturated since 8800GTX has been out many months. No reason why a equal part should fly off shelves for the same price.

$500 might make sense in that scenario, though...
Not everyone in the world upgraded to the Geforce 8800GTS/GTX series of cards.

There will be plenty of options for this card to sell. People have been waiting and large OEMs are buying (e.g like Apple).
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Old 02-May-2007, 08:37   #4115
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Not everyone in the world upgraded to the Geforce 8800GTS/GTX series of cards.

There will be plenty of options for this card to sell. People have been waiting and large OEMs are buying (e.g like Apple).
It would sell some, but there is no reason for it to sell a lot if it's the same perfomance and ">$600" as the OP suggested.

The people that want the uber high end cards tend to buy the latest and greatest anyway, and they've had six months to buy 8800GTX. Maybe the die hard ATI hold-outs..but what is that, 10%?

It would have pretty limited share..it has to offer something better, not par, especially after being six months late..

BTW, I'm not saying this means it's performance>8800GTX..it probably doesn't.
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Old 02-May-2007, 09:20   #4116
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Stalker Test: (default E6600 default R600XT)

1280*1024 HIGH SETTINGS HDR on

from the first step out of cellar, until reach the village

2007-05-02 12:04:07 - XR_3DA
Frames: 7027 - Time: 35704ms - Avg: 196.812 - Min: 93 - Max: 333
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Old 02-May-2007, 09:45   #4117
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Originally Posted by Pressure View Post
Not everyone in the world upgraded to the Geforce 8800GTS/GTX series of cards.
Sure, most of those won't update to R600 either.

Quote:
There will be plenty of options for this card to sell. People have been waiting and large OEMs are buying (e.g like Apple).
Not so sure, the card I'm waiting for is single slot and doesn't require a new PSU for example. I also know many people like me, FWIW (HTPC users mostly).

So where is that "upper midrange" single slot card? I see none coming, from both camps we get double-slot heaters or anemic low-end would-be 3D cards but nothing like the 6800GT or the X1800GTO in sight yet.
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Old 02-May-2007, 09:46   #4118
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Hmm according to Firing Squad a 8800 GTS scores about a third of that.

There's a million variables of course, but just wondering if the uber HDR TMU's are responsible for the high score?

Also looks like FS test was probably more demanding

Quote:
Basically our test involves running down a set path where the environment goes from a densely vegetated forest (which hurts frame rate) into a more open environment.
Anyways, just throwing things out there, no real reason.

My current theory is R600 might perform really well on HDR games. Of course, as usual, I dont know what I'm talking about though..

In fact I guess it's not even a theory, AMD's own slides pretty much confirm it.

Last edited by Rangers; 02-May-2007 at 09:56.
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Old 02-May-2007, 09:53   #4119
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Originally Posted by mao5 View Post
Stalker Test: (default E6600 default R600XT)

1280*1024 HIGH SETTINGS HDR on

from the first step out of cellar, until reach the village

2007-05-02 12:04:07 - XR_3DA
Frames: 7027 - Time: 35704ms - Avg: 196.812 - Min: 93 - Max: 333
Ohhh yeah , a nice DX 8 bench .
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Old 02-May-2007, 09:57   #4120
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Originally Posted by mao5 View Post
Stalker Test: (default E6600 default R600XT)

1280*1024 HIGH SETTINGS HDR on

from the first step out of cellar, until reach the village

2007-05-02 12:04:07 - XR_3DA
Frames: 7027 - Time: 35704ms - Avg: 196.812 - Min: 93 - Max: 333
Does that "Hight Settings" includes at least 4xAA and 8xAF? (never played Stalker so i don't know how's the in-game settings panel)

edit: i doubt the game would allow to turn on hdr on in a DX8 codepath, unless they use int8 precision....and that wouldnt look good, still those fps are unexpectedly high to me.

Last edited by doob; 02-May-2007 at 10:09.
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Old 02-May-2007, 10:13   #4121
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This framerate is in DX 8,, is imposible this framerate in DX9 with dinamic lighting,
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Old 02-May-2007, 10:14   #4122
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So do we get a NDA lift tomorrow or is it delayed to the 14th also?
Launch day is the 14th.
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Old 02-May-2007, 10:24   #4123
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Originally Posted by mao5 View Post
Stalker Test: (default E6600 default R600XT)

1280*1024 HIGH SETTINGS HDR on

from the first step out of cellar, until reach the village

2007-05-02 12:04:07 - XR_3DA
Frames: 7027 - Time: 35704ms - Avg: 196.812 - Min: 93 - Max: 333
Min 93? Sounds fishy to me.
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Old 02-May-2007, 10:39   #4124
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http://www.hisdigital.com/html/produ...d=304&view=yes
Was that one posted already? HIS has 2900XT on their site now
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Old 02-May-2007, 10:44   #4125
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Launch day is the 14th.
That's in the PD now
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