[Arun]

You arguably shouldn't count it, since ATI has a dedicated MUL for perspective correction, basically... But if it got partially exposed in the future, it would be interesting, and could arguably count as a (small?) part an ALU or some such... 1/4th would be my first guestimate.

Uttar

[jamis]

Originally Posted by LeStoffer

Thanks. At around the 20:10 mark we got the "today it is 48 - in the future maybe it is 96". After having listen to it myself, I'm not totally convinced that was a solid hint to the R600. The "maybe" sounded a bit vague...

Listen a bit further and he says:"Our next generation is going to exceed half a gigaflop", no maybies there. He also repeats the magical number of 96...

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by jamis

Listen a bit further and he says:"Our next generation is going to exceed half a gigaflop", no maybies there. He also repeats the magical number of 96...

I assume you mean "half a teraflop"
Anyawy, what's the theoretical max of G80 on those fancy floppies

[trinibwoy]

A middling 346 gflops without the MUL.

[jamis]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

I assume you mean "half a teraflop"
Anyawy, what's the theoretical max of G80 on those fancy floppies

LOL, yes. I think it's >500 GFlops too. At least that's what they say.

[rwolf]

Originally Posted by geo

Part of what has been missed a touch in the boggling over the 1350 MHz shaders is that base clocks took a step backwards in G80 to 575 MHz. This is covered by increasing ROPs to 24, for instance. A hypothetical R600 in the ~850 MHz range could be roughly equivalent with the same number of ROPs as R580.

ATI has not shown, that I can recall, much ankle towards going towards the clock domains concept and making significant differences in chip clocking for different parts of the chip. NV at least had tried that out a bit with the G7x line before throwing down with the major clock differences with G80. So, at least today, I'd be surprised if that shows up in R600. . .and thus I'd lean towards a higher base clock that applies to everything, with somewhat fewer units. That seems to be ATI's MO the last few years.

Not true, I believe that the ring bus operates at the same speed as the memory interface and it connects internal components together.

[rwolf]

Originally Posted by dnavas

Depends on what those units are capable of, unless we think R600 is going the scalar route as well....

96 < 128, but, 96 Vec4 > 128 scalar, even when running at 800Mhz vs. 1350Mhz....

ed. Geo beat me But, even with ROPs, you'll likely need to factor in differences in capability.

So what if those units run at 3GHz.

[LeStoffer]

Originally Posted by rwolf

So what if those units run at 3GHz.

Damn rwolf, you just cant get that fast14 tech out of your head, can you?

[Rangers]

Originally Posted by rwolf

So what if those units run at 3GHz.

ATI isn't that aggressive.

[Anarchist4000]

Originally Posted by rwolf

So what if those units run at 3GHz.

If that happened ATI likely wouldn't have any competition for the next couple years. Besides the fact they would likely be pushing around 3TFLOPS at that point if all the other rumored speculation plays out.

[Domell]

http://66.249.93.104/translate_c?hl=...language_tools

Does it mean that r600 will use 256-bit memory bus or what??

[rwolf]

Originally Posted by Rangers

ATI isn't that aggressive.

Why not? Ring bus is running at GDDR4 speeds.

[rwolf]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35707

R600
16 ROPS
700MHz-800MHz
64 shaders each with 4-way simd

DAAMIT kept the RingBus configuration for the R600 as well, but now the number has doubled. The External memory controller is a clear 512-bit variant, while internally you will be treated with a bi-directional bus double the width. The 1024-bit Ringbus is approaching

Since R600 SIMD Shader can calculate the result of four scalar units, it yields with scalar performance of 256 units - while Nvidia comes with 128 "real" scalar units.

Delay is caused by another weird bug.

[Ailuros]

I wish the folks at the INQ knew only half the time what they're rambling about

[rwolf]

We are heading for very interesting results in DX10 performance, since game developers expect that NV stuff will be faster in simple instrucions and R600 will excel in complex shader arena. In a way, you could compare R600 and G80 as Athlon XP versus Pentium 4 - one was doing more work in a single clock, while the other was using higher clock speed to achieve equal performance.

Interesting.

[rwolf]

First of all, the GPU is a logical development that started with the R500Xenos, or Xbox GPU, but without the 10MB eDRAM part. Unlike the Xbox GPU, the R600 has to be able to support a large number of resolutions and, if we take a look at today's massive 5Mpix resolutions, it is quite obvious that R600 should feature at least five times more eDRAM than Xbox 360 has

I doubt that the R600 has eDRAM and only has a modest cache. It wouldn't make sense to have a 512-bit bus if you have eDRAM.

[neliz]

Originally Posted by Rangers

ATI isn't that aggressive.

Not aggressive on the products, but aggresive within their limited design?

[ChrisRay]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35707

Oy. I dont even know WHAT theo is trying to say here.

[nicolasb]

Originally Posted by rwolf

I doubt that the R600 has eDRAM and only has a modest cache. It wouldn't make sense to have a 512-bit bus if you have eDRAM.

Maybe you read that wrong...? They're saying that if R600 had eDRAM it would have to have 5 times as much as Xenos, which is clearly impossible and is precisely the reason why R600 quite definitely doesn't have eDRAM.

I know one shouldn't necessarily believe The Inquirer, but, if this does turn out to be accurate, does anyone else feel a little dissapointed? 16 ROPs and 64 shaders? Good news about the clock-speed and the memory bandwidth, I suppose, but.... In my heart-of-hearts I was hoping for something that would convincingly beat G80 all round. Oh well.

[Ailuros]

*sigh* Why don't you guys first wait what each unit is capable of before you even come to conclusions about unit amounts? It must be the third time I remind that, but as more food for thought:

R5x0 ALU = 12 FLOPs
Xenos ALU = 9 FLOPs
G80 SP = 3 FLOPs

Uhmmm hello....?

And yes before anyone says it sterile flop numbers aren't an indicator either, yet it's even more senseless to judge something purely on unit amount. Patience until we know what each is capable of.

[Kocur]

Well, if the Inq is right (on the specs, not on the analysis ), then R600 clocked at 800MHz will be, theoretically, up to 20% faster in shaders than the current 8800GTX. Of course, in practice the perfromance difference will vary, depending on the particular scenario. Moreover, the "efficiency" of the chip could be an important factor here. And it looks like, again, ATI will be faster in "heavy duty" AA modes in very high resolutions.

[fehu]

hi
I'm new in this forum also if I use to read it almost regularly

I have a question, or almost a curiosity
I'm understanding that G80 has many simpler units and the R600 maybe have more complex Vec4 units
From a developer standpoint it make a difference?
We will see in this generation too game working badly on a card only because every game need a different path with different optimization for every card?
Or simply means that a developer send to the gpu some instruction and the G80 split it and the R600 group it?

In the first case what are the real world instruction used by developers? simple or vec4?

[Rys]

Originally Posted by fehu

hi
I'm new in this forum also if I use to read it almost regularly

I have a question, or almost a curiosity
I'm understanding that G80 has many simpler units and the R600 maybe have more complex Vec4 units
From a developer standpoint it make a difference?
We will see in this generation too game working badly on a card only because every game need a different path with different optimization for every card?
Or simply means that a developer send to the gpu some instruction and the G80 split it and the R600 group it?

In the first case what are the real world instruction used by developers? simple or vec4?

The developer really shouldn't care, unless they're fine tuning. The driver and its instruction assembler is designed to get the best use out of the shading hardware, so you just write your shader and assume that part of it is just running as best it can (for the most part). Per-chip optimisations are generally not something a developer wants to spend much time on, but that's not to say it doesn't happen (especially in the console space).

As for real-world instruction mixes, they're so varied that choosing the most common is a redundant task, and it certainly wouldn't come down to just scalar or vec4.

Regardless, the first D3D10 parts should have some commonality in regards to how they tackle the instruction mix of real-world shaders.

[fehu]

Originally Posted by Rys

...

so the R600 is only teoretically faster in the shader field?

[Rys]

Originally Posted by fehu

so the R600 is only teoretically faster in the shader field?

It's impossible for me to say at this point. Regardless, don't believe (even some small fraction) of what The Inquirer deemed fit to report as fact this morning, since they're hilariously wrong in places.