Beyond3D Forum

tt_22 · 06-Feb-2003, 23:51

Even more rumours about the R350.

This is taken from xbit-labs. Enjoy.

As we were told by our source, there will be two RADEON 9900 branded graphics cards available later this year. Obviously, the parts will be called as the RADEON 9900 and the RADEON 9900 PRO. Both products should be based on the famous R300 architecture with certain changes in the hardware of chips. Moreover, a source indicated that there may be two different chips for the RADEON 9900 family.

ATI RADEON 9900 VPU will be manufactured using advanced 0.15 micron copper fabrication process that should allow the graphics chip to be clocked at 375MHz for core and memory. It was already noted by a couple of journalists at The Inquirer that the superior 256-bit memory bus by ATI will remain untouched, but I cannot tell you for sure which type of memory will be used on the RADEON 9900 powered graphics cards. Take into account the fact that besides copper interconnections in the chip, certain optimisations may be made in order to boost the performance; nevertheless, architecture in general should not be changed much from the RADEON 9700: the same 8 rendering pipes with 1 TMU per each. This one will be unveiled at CeBIT and will be available almost immediately after the trade-show head-shooting the arch-rival GeForce FX 5800 Ultra.

ATI RADEON 9900 PRO will be made using 0.13 micron technology and will be hugely more powerful than the brethren. It was said that the part will contain 8 rendering pipelines with 2 TMUs per each in addition to more efficient architecture of the VPU itself compared to the original RADEON 9700. The RADEON 9900 PRO may be announced at CeBIT, but do not anticipate ATI to start selling the babe just after the launch as it is not easy to develop a 0.13 micron graphics processor. With more TMUs and higher core and memory clocks ATI wants the RADEON 9900 PRO to compete against the NV35 due this Summer, but since ATI is ahead of NVIDIA in general, they are also likely to be faster than them in particular and start offering the RADEON 9900 PRO this Spring.

ATI have not yet specified the prices on their forthcoming products. Keep in mind that almost all news-stories that reflect the information from inside the company are fully preliminary and may eventually become obsolete as companies usually adjust their roadmap and family of products based on the market situation.

McElvis · 06-Feb-2003, 23:58

But if the 9900 Pro is only to be available after spring, where does this leave the R400??

RussSchultz · 07-Feb-2003, 00:01

Perhaps that is the R400...

Though quite honestly, (beyond the fact that ATI likes to give non-sensical numbers to their parts and this rumor would fit right into that), I think the whole thing is BS.

demalion · 07-Feb-2003, 00:06

Unreserved Agreement With Russ In Every Particular.

Joe DeFuria · 07-Feb-2003, 00:16

OK...usually in every rumor there is some truth, so I'll speculate and try to find it.

* There will be Radeon 9900 and Radeon 9900 Pros. However, both will be what we would expect them to be: R350s, 0.15 micron, 8x1 architectures. Essentially, "faster versions" of the current R-300 products. One might be 375/350 the other 425/400. These two products will be announced at CeBit. One or both shipping shortly thereafter.

* There is another product (or products) coming in late spring, early summer. These are based on the RV-350. These are built on 0.13 micron, and are 4x2 designs. RV-350 products will probably not be announced at CeBit.

Doomtrooper · 07-Feb-2003, 00:17

Interesting

demalion · 07-Feb-2003, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe DeFuria

OK...usually in every rumor there is some truth, so I'll speculate and try to find it.

* There will be Radeon 9900 and Radeon 9900 Pros. However, both will be what we would expect them to be: R350s, 0.15 micron, 8x1 architectures. Essentially, "faster versions" of the current R-300 products. One might be 375/350 the other 425/400. These two products will be announced at CeBit. One or both shipping shortly thereafter.

But this isn't new.

Quote:

* There is another product (or products) coming in late spring, early summer. These are based on the RV-350. These are built on 0.13 micron, and are 4x2 designs. RV-350 products will probably not be announced at CeBit.

While this reasonable middleground between 4x1 and 8x1 has occurred to me as well, this has nothing to do with anything new stated by this particular item. The 2 TMU per pipe idea has been floating around for quite a while.

The individual ideas of the item aren't total BS, but the mishmash as a whole still strikes me as such.

Hellbinder · 07-Feb-2003, 00:44

Rubbish...

THe_KELRaTH · 07-Feb-2003, 00:50

hehehe! Short and to the point.....

Luminescent · 07-Feb-2003, 02:57

In reference to what, Hellbinder?

THe_KELRaTH · 07-Feb-2003, 05:11

I would have thought that one area ATI would want to move forward on quickly is from 96bit to 128bit if nothing more than to have equal footing in primary features.

Chalnoth · 07-Feb-2003, 06:28

As far as "OEM checkbox features" are concerned, ATI doesn't really need to worry. They can still claim 128-bit support, since the 9700 Pro does support those data types. It just doesn't do the internal calculation at that level.

THe_KELRaTH · 07-Feb-2003, 10:40

Wasn't using 96bit precision purely a bandwidth saver?
I agree it's just a checkbox figure and I certainly wouldn't notice any difference but from a marketing direction many potential customers who just look at and compare box numbers it could be seen as "not as good as Nvidia".
I would also expect new AA/AF modes and not necessarily higher quality. ie possibly a performance AF to compete with the aggressive mode.

Dave Baumann · 07-Feb-2003, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalnoth

It just doesn't do the internal calculation at that level.

They might, if they wished to code it in such a fasion, be able to achieve it by bit stack over two clocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by THe_KELRaTH

Wasn't using 96bit precision purely a bandwidth saver?

This is internal precision we’re talking about here, not external – internal bandwidth isn’t an issue.

PeterT · 07-Feb-2003, 11:01

AFAIK, doing the internal calculations at 24 bit (per component) only saves transistors, not bandwidth (you would only need more bandwith if you used textures/buffers with higher colordepth).

[Edit] Dave beat me to it

[/Edit]

THe_KELRaTH · 07-Feb-2003, 14:32

Heh PeterT.. I'll let you have the next one!

........

So with regards 96 / 128bit, it would seem that this will only change with the next card that uses .13 then. (excluding the RV350).

09-Feb-2003, 01:07

ATI said there will be NO 0.13 micron Chip untill the R400..........

And since the R350 and Rv350 are based on you guessed it the R300 ...they both will be on 0.15 micron

ClyssaN · 09-Feb-2003, 06:29

Rv350 will be a 0.13 micron chip.

09-Feb-2003, 23:48

yes they seemed to have changed it..... but it's a bit weird that the Rv350(less powerfull and to be released a short time b4 the R350) will be a 0.13 micron while the R350 stays 0.15 micron.......

This recently released spec makes more sense

ATI RADEON 9900 PRO will be made using 0.13 micron technology the part will contain 8 rendering pipelines with 2 TMUs well that makes more sense and the 9900 stays like the 9700 based on 0.15 micron

ClyssaN · 10-Feb-2003, 01:45

From reading this foruns, the rv350 only appears after the r350, 8 pipelines x 2 TMUs will never happen

Kaizer · 10-Feb-2003, 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3D WonderBoy

yes they seemed to have changed it. but it's a bit weird that the Rv350(less powerfull and to be released a short time b4 the R350) will be a 0.13 micron while the R350 stays 0.15 micron..

Or maybe not..
0.13 micron means cheaper, something which makes sense for a solution targeted for the mainstream/mid end markets.
0.15 micron means tweaked version of the basic design of the r300 (already a complex chip), a little more expensive, and this does not matter as we are talking about a high end, top performance part (a market where the price is not the main selling point).

My .02

With Regards
Kjetil

Tagrineth · 10-Feb-2003, 14:54

Just received word from a friend of mine; he said ATi gave a presentation at his college on advanced realtime 3D graphics, and it included some stuff on R350.

He said that it will be .13 and that SuperSampling will be added in the next driver set.

He talks out of his ass pretty frequently though so I'm not gonna believe it just yet though

martrox · 10-Feb-2003, 14:57

Tangrineth, just where is that sun you talk about.... it's pretty damn dreary here..... in wet, cold, cloudy, dreary boring Florida......

BoardBonobo · 10-Feb-2003, 15:08

Is this for real?

If it is, then that's a pretty weird setup!

Dave Baumann · 10-Feb-2003, 15:19

The inaccuracies in that shot are too easy to spot., so, no its not real.

06-Feb-2003, 23:51	#1
tt_22 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 20	R9900 & R9900 pro Even more rumours about the R350. This is taken from xbit-labs. Enjoy. As we were told by our source, there will be two RADEON 9900 branded graphics cards available later this year. Obviously, the parts will be called as the RADEON 9900 and the RADEON 9900 PRO. Both products should be based on the famous R300 architecture with certain changes in the hardware of chips. Moreover, a source indicated that there may be two different chips for the RADEON 9900 family. ATI RADEON 9900 VPU will be manufactured using advanced 0.15 micron copper fabrication process that should allow the graphics chip to be clocked at 375MHz for core and memory. It was already noted by a couple of journalists at The Inquirer that the superior 256-bit memory bus by ATI will remain untouched, but I cannot tell you for sure which type of memory will be used on the RADEON 9900 powered graphics cards. Take into account the fact that besides copper interconnections in the chip, certain optimisations may be made in order to boost the performance; nevertheless, architecture in general should not be changed much from the RADEON 9700: the same 8 rendering pipes with 1 TMU per each. This one will be unveiled at CeBIT and will be available almost immediately after the trade-show head-shooting the arch-rival GeForce FX 5800 Ultra. ATI RADEON 9900 PRO will be made using 0.13 micron technology and will be hugely more powerful than the brethren. It was said that the part will contain 8 rendering pipelines with 2 TMUs per each in addition to more efficient architecture of the VPU itself compared to the original RADEON 9700. The RADEON 9900 PRO may be announced at CeBIT, but do not anticipate ATI to start selling the babe just after the launch as it is not easy to develop a 0.13 micron graphics processor. With more TMUs and higher core and memory clocks ATI wants the RADEON 9900 PRO to compete against the NV35 due this Summer, but since ATI is ahead of NVIDIA in general, they are also likely to be faster than them in particular and start offering the RADEON 9900 PRO this Spring. ATI have not yet specified the prices on their forthcoming products. Keep in mind that almost all news-stories that reflect the information from inside the company are fully preliminary and may eventually become obsolete as companies usually adjust their roadmap and family of products based on the market situation.

07-Feb-2003, 06:28	#12
Chalnoth Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,679	As far as "OEM checkbox features" are concerned, ATI doesn't really need to worry. They can still claim 128-bit support, since the 9700 Pro does support those data types. It just doesn't do the internal calculation at that level. __________________ April 20, 1979 - America must never forget.

10-Feb-2003, 14:54	#22
Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny (boring) Florida Posts: 2,512	Just received word from a friend of mine; he said ATi gave a presentation at his college on advanced realtime 3D graphics, and it included some stuff on R350. He said that it will be .13 and that SuperSampling will be added in the next driver set. He talks out of his ass pretty frequently though so I'm not gonna believe it just yet though __________________ For Great Justice Move Every 'Zig'

10-Feb-2003, 15:08	#24
BoardBonobo Senior Moment Join Date: May 2002 Location: SurfMonkey's Cluster... Posts: 1,813	Is this for real? If it is, then that's a pretty weird setup! __________________ "We're a virus with shoes" - Bill Hicks "The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. " — George Bernard Shaw "The Tree of Life is Self-Pruning" - The Darwin Awards

10-Feb-2003, 15:19	#25
Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh... Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 12,989	The inaccuracies in that shot are too easy to spot., so, no its not real. __________________ Expand. Accelerate. Dominate. Tweet Tweet!

06-Feb-2003, 23:58	#2
McElvis Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London Posts: 269	But if the 9900 Pro is only to be available after spring, where does this leave the R400??

07-Feb-2003, 00:01	#3
RussSchultz Professional Malcontent Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: HTTP 404 Posts: 2,855	Perhaps that is the R400... Though quite honestly, (beyond the fact that ATI likes to give non-sensical numbers to their parts and this rumor would fit right into that), I think the whole thing is BS.

07-Feb-2003, 00:06	#4
demalion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CT Posts: 2,024	Unreserved Agreement With Russ In Every Particular.

07-Feb-2003, 00:16	#5
Joe DeFuria Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,951	OK...usually in every rumor there is some truth, so I'll speculate and try to find it. * There will be Radeon 9900 and Radeon 9900 Pros. However, both will be what we would expect them to be: R350s, 0.15 micron, 8x1 architectures. Essentially, "faster versions" of the current R-300 products. One might be 375/350 the other 425/400. These two products will be announced at CeBit. One or both shipping shortly thereafter. * There is another product (or products) coming in late spring, early summer. These are based on the RV-350. These are built on 0.13 micron, and are 4x2 designs. RV-350 products will probably not be announced at CeBit.

07-Feb-2003, 00:17	#6
Doomtrooper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,328	Interesting

07-Feb-2003, 00:44	#8
Hellbinder Naughty Boy! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,444	Rubbish...

07-Feb-2003, 00:50	#9
THe_KELRaTH Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Surrey Heath UK Posts: 471	hehehe! Short and to the point.....

07-Feb-2003, 02:57	#10
Luminescent Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 1,036	In reference to what, Hellbinder?

07-Feb-2003, 05:11	#11
THe_KELRaTH Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Surrey Heath UK Posts: 471	I would have thought that one area ATI would want to move forward on quickly is from 96bit to 128bit if nothing more than to have equal footing in primary features.

07-Feb-2003, 10:40	#13
THe_KELRaTH Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Surrey Heath UK Posts: 471	Wasn't using 96bit precision purely a bandwidth saver? I agree it's just a checkbox figure and I certainly wouldn't notice any difference but from a marketing direction many potential customers who just look at and compare box numbers it could be seen as "not as good as Nvidia". I would also expect new AA/AF modes and not necessarily higher quality. ie possibly a performance AF to compete with the aggressive mode.

07-Feb-2003, 11:01	#15
PeterT Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Austria Posts: 699	AFAIK, doing the internal calculations at 24 bit (per component) only saves transistors, not bandwidth (you would only need more bandwith if you used textures/buffers with higher colordepth). [Edit] Dave beat me to it [/Edit]

07-Feb-2003, 14:32	#16
THe_KELRaTH Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Surrey Heath UK Posts: 471	Heh PeterT.. I'll let you have the next one! ........ So with regards 96 / 128bit, it would seem that this will only change with the next card that uses .13 then. (excluding the RV350).

09-Feb-2003, 01:07	#17
Guest Posts: n/a	ATI said there will be NO 0.13 micron Chip untill the R400.......... And since the R350 and Rv350 are based on you guessed it the R300 ...they both will be on 0.15 micron

09-Feb-2003, 06:29	#18
ClyssaN Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 131	Rv350 will be a 0.13 micron chip.

09-Feb-2003, 23:48	#19
Guest Posts: n/a	yes they seemed to have changed it..... but it's a bit weird that the Rv350(less powerfull and to be released a short time b4 the R350) will be a 0.13 micron while the R350 stays 0.15 micron....... This recently released spec makes more sense ATI RADEON 9900 PRO will be made using 0.13 micron technology the part will contain 8 rendering pipelines with 2 TMUs well that makes more sense and the 9900 stays like the 9700 based on 0.15 micron

10-Feb-2003, 01:45	#20
ClyssaN Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 131	From reading this foruns, the rv350 only appears after the r350, 8 pipelines x 2 TMUs will never happen

10-Feb-2003, 14:57	#23
martrox Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA Posts: 2,065	Tangrineth, just where is that sun you talk about.... it's pretty damn dreary here..... in wet, cold, cloudy, dreary boring Florida......

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