Beyond3D Forum

Dave Baumann · 29-Jan-2003, 21:39

Now that GeForce FX has broken cover (in reference form at least), as expected, the noise concerning ATI’s refresh products in the form of RV350 and R350 has begun to rise. The emphasis is on the R350 based chip as this is the new high end part, expected to replace R300 and allow ATI to maintain the performance crown even in the face of GeForce FX. Whether this will happen is really anybody’s guess as very little is known about the part, its configuration or changes from the original R300 architecture, other than it will be based on the same 150nm process as R300 – it would, however, seem a little foolish to start making ‘performance’ leadership noises if the part were to fall short.

Digit-Life has an article covering a Russian ATI even designed to highlight their intent in the Russian market, along with a number of board vendor partners. During the rounds of speeches and presentations it would appear that PowerColor spilled the beans on much of ATI’s roadmap for 2003…

"When Mr. Edinger spoke in the morning the ATI's future plans were brought to the words Next Generation. But that idyl was destroyed by the next speech of a guy from CP Technology who presented the roadmap showing R350, RV350, R400 and their approximate implementation time. When the information was displayed the Vice President was taken aback at such straightforwardness. Nevertheless, I can inform you that the R350 based cards will appear in April this year, RV350 ones will come even a little earlier. Of course, this is just a plan and it can be corrected any time. The R400 is due to be released after July."

If Radeon 9700 PRO and 9500 PRO releases are anything to go by then it may be that we’ll see ATI board versions well before other vendors start selling them.

Possibly of more interest though, is that it would appear that R400 sounds like its still on course for a Fall release. R400 is an entirely new architecture, which some are describing as 'hybrid' (possibly with reference to the shader pipeline's being unified in some sense) and is likely to support DirectX9's, currently unexposed, PS/VS3.0 functionality.

Related articles:

ATI Technologies: Premium Event "With no limits in mind" (Digit Life)
Graphics battle: Nvidia GeForce FX vs. ATI R350 in the next few weeks (Digitimes)
ATI, Nvidia battle for speed lead (C|Net News)

KnightBreed · 29-Jan-2003, 22:41

Quote:

Nevertheless, I can inform you that the R350 based cards will appear in April this year, RV350 ones will come even a little earlier. Of course, this is just a plan and it can be corrected any time. The R400 is due to be released after July."

R350 released in April, and new product launch in July? Why?

Dave Baumann · 29-Jan-2003, 22:46

"After July". I'd guess that actually means "probably September".

noko · 29-Jan-2003, 23:52

Annoiced in September, delivered late October - -> Best time of year to sell new products (Christmass fever).

Anonymous · 30-Jan-2003, 04:16

It would be foolish to start making performance leadership noises this far ahead of the game wouldn't it?

That would be too much like nvidia, huh

jjayb · 30-Jan-2003, 06:41

I saw the title "r350 noise" on the front page and thought that I was going to read that the r350 was going to use a fan like the FX. Had me worried for a minute.

Johnny Rotten · 30-Jan-2003, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjayb

I saw the title "r350 noise" on the front page and thought that I was going to read that the r350 was going to use a fan like the FX. Had me worried for a minute.

Heh heh. My exact impression too! Phew!

Anonymous · 31-Jan-2003, 03:36

Quote:

Heh heh. My exact impression too! Phew!

What if though ??? I mean it is still on 150nm. Maybe this kind of cooling method will be the new trend in quest for performance crown.

jjayb · 31-Jan-2003, 04:33

Lord I hope not. My wife would never let me turn my computer on if it had a fan like the FX. She's already sensitive enough to the noise my cpu fan makes.

WaltC · 31-Jan-2003, 04:58

Hmmmm.....hadn't heard anything about R400 being yet another new architecture....not sure if but the smartest thing for ATI wouldn't be to take the R350 core, tweak it a bit, maybe add in a tad more depth to the shaders (although too much really makes no sense as it kills performance), maybe go to new shader specs (kind of at cross purposes with the last phrase, I know), and drop it all down to .13 microns running at 500-600Mhz with a decent core voltage (which I think could certainly be done as ATI's already proven the concept at .15 microns.) Based on how much faster per clock the R300 already seems than the nv30, I would think that would make a killer 3D chip--almost impossible for nVidia to touch this year. I think ATI ought to hang in there with the base R300 architecture for at least the rest of this year (with some of the advnaced shader changes, of course.) It's a great architecture, and with the 256-bit bus and DDRII (or 3, if they get it working by R400), ATI would be looking at something like ~40gigs/sec bandwidth which would support a core like that.

Anonymous · 12-Feb-2003, 01:44

well....check this out!
http://www.ocsystem.com/ocenrad97pro1.html

9700 pro with 415mhz core and passive cooling
....dead silent!

Anonymous · 12-Feb-2003, 01:59

http://www.monster-hardware.com/revi...ti9700%201.htm

Check out the review...

jvd · 12-Feb-2003, 05:27

anyone else here expect to see a 475mhz r350 with 450 ram while still using the same cooler from the 9700 pro ? Cause thats what i'm expecting.

Mulciber · 12-Feb-2003, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvd

anyone else here expect to see a 475mhz r350 with 450 ram while still using the same cooler from the 9700 pro ? Cause thats what i'm expecting.

I'd say you're expecting a little to much on both accounts for frequencies

Joe DeFuria · 12-Feb-2003, 12:36

I agree with Mulciber....I think you're expecting too much.

The 400/400 Mhz neighborhood sounds about right to me...but hey, ATI has surprised us before with clock rates.

Mulciber · 13-Feb-2003, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe DeFuria

I agree with Mulciber....I think you're expecting too much.

The 400/400 Mhz neighborhood sounds about right to me...but hey, ATI has surprised us before with clock rates.

yea, they sure suprised us with core freq., but it'll be a lot harder to suprise us with ram freqs.

29-Jan-2003, 21:39	#1
Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh... Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 12,956	R350 Noise Now that GeForce FX has broken cover (in reference form at least), as expected, the noise concerning ATI’s refresh products in the form of RV350 and R350 has begun to rise. The emphasis is on the R350 based chip as this is the new high end part, expected to replace R300 and allow ATI to maintain the performance crown even in the face of GeForce FX. Whether this will happen is really anybody’s guess as very little is known about the part, its configuration or changes from the original R300 architecture, other than it will be based on the same 150nm process as R300 – it would, however, seem a little foolish to start making ‘performance’ leadership noises if the part were to fall short. Digit-Life has an article covering a Russian ATI even designed to highlight their intent in the Russian market, along with a number of board vendor partners. During the rounds of speeches and presentations it would appear that PowerColor spilled the beans on much of ATI’s roadmap for 2003… "When Mr. Edinger spoke in the morning the ATI's future plans were brought to the words Next Generation. But that idyl was destroyed by the next speech of a guy from CP Technology who presented the roadmap showing R350, RV350, R400 and their approximate implementation time. When the information was displayed the Vice President was taken aback at such straightforwardness. Nevertheless, I can inform you that the R350 based cards will appear in April this year, RV350 ones will come even a little earlier. Of course, this is just a plan and it can be corrected any time. The R400 is due to be released after July." If Radeon 9700 PRO and 9500 PRO releases are anything to go by then it may be that we’ll see ATI board versions well before other vendors start selling them. Possibly of more interest though, is that it would appear that R400 sounds like its still on course for a Fall release. R400 is an entirely new architecture, which some are describing as 'hybrid' (possibly with reference to the shader pipeline's being unified in some sense) and is likely to support DirectX9's, currently unexposed, PS/VS3.0 functionality. Related articles: ATI Technologies: Premium Event "With no limits in mind" (Digit Life) Graphics battle: Nvidia GeForce FX vs. ATI R350 in the next few weeks (Digitimes) ATI, Nvidia battle for speed lead (C\|Net News) __________________ Expand. Accelerate. Dominate. Tweet Tweet!

29-Jan-2003, 22:46	#3
Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh... Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 12,956	"After July". I'd guess that actually means "probably September". __________________ Expand. Accelerate. Dominate. Tweet Tweet!

12-Feb-2003, 05:27	#13
jvd Naughty Boy! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: new jersey Posts: 12,731	anyone else here expect to see a 475mhz r350 with 450 ram while still using the same cooler from the 9700 pro ? Cause thats what i'm expecting. __________________ Freexbox 360 !!! Free Psp!

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29-Jan-2003, 23:52	#4
noko Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 502	Annoiced in September, delivered late October - -> Best time of year to sell new products (Christmass fever).

30-Jan-2003, 04:16	#5
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	It would be foolish to start making performance leadership noises this far ahead of the game wouldn't it? That would be too much like nvidia, huh

30-Jan-2003, 06:41	#6
jjayb Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 358	I saw the title "r350 noise" on the front page and thought that I was going to read that the r350 was going to use a fan like the FX. Had me worried for a minute.

31-Jan-2003, 04:33	#9
jjayb Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 358	Lord I hope not. My wife would never let me turn my computer on if it had a fan like the FX. She's already sensitive enough to the noise my cpu fan makes.

31-Jan-2003, 04:58	#10
WaltC Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: BelleVue Sanatorium, Billary, NY. Patient privileges: Internet access Posts: 2,694	Hmmmm.....hadn't heard anything about R400 being yet another new architecture....not sure if but the smartest thing for ATI wouldn't be to take the R350 core, tweak it a bit, maybe add in a tad more depth to the shaders (although too much really makes no sense as it kills performance), maybe go to new shader specs (kind of at cross purposes with the last phrase, I know), and drop it all down to .13 microns running at 500-600Mhz with a decent core voltage (which I think could certainly be done as ATI's already proven the concept at .15 microns.) Based on how much faster per clock the R300 already seems than the nv30, I would think that would make a killer 3D chip--almost impossible for nVidia to touch this year. I think ATI ought to hang in there with the base R300 architecture for at least the rest of this year (with some of the advnaced shader changes, of course.) It's a great architecture, and with the 256-bit bus and DDRII (or 3, if they get it working by R400), ATI would be looking at something like ~40gigs/sec bandwidth which would support a core like that.

12-Feb-2003, 01:44	#11
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	well....check this out! http://www.ocsystem.com/ocenrad97pro1.html 9700 pro with 415mhz core and passive cooling ....dead silent!

12-Feb-2003, 01:59	#12
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	http://www.monster-hardware.com/revi...ti9700%201.htm Check out the review...

12-Feb-2003, 12:36	#15
Joe DeFuria Regular Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,951	I agree with Mulciber....I think you're expecting too much. The 400/400 Mhz neighborhood sounds about right to me...but hey, ATI has surprised us before with clock rates.

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