[Heinrich4]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf

toshiba had xdr samples in 2003.

Rambus has fulfilled the performance specifications on paper for PS3 hardware?

We know that the ps2 had some latencies even 2channels 3.2GB/sec, but correct me if I'm wrong, never heard about problems with speed and performance XDR on ps3 (had much criticism from developers about programming for three types of memory etc.local store->XDR->GDDR3 ).

About XDR2...they have videos showing the performance of these modules will not be able to meet a possible demonstration and testing to manufacturers?

http://www.rambus.com/in/technology/...dr2/index.html

[AlphaWolf]

We'll know when someone makes one. Let me know when that happens, and then they could probably mass produce a year or so after that.

[Rolf N]

Originally Posted by Urian

I know a person who is an investor of MoSys and other technological companies, we talked about Wii U a few days ago and I became surprised with a comment from him about the new console:

"Wii U uses 28nm manufacturing process from NEC and 1T-SRAM from MoSys"

I asked him how he could know it and he told me that this information have been shared to the investors of MoSys because Nintendo partnership is the more important one for them and any signal of losing the deal can be very dangerous for the health of MoSys business. Since he isn´t a technical person I didn´t ask him about technical specs, but the 28nm comment was very interesting.

Now that's a surprise. Or could be. Err.

I thought the Wii kept 1T-SRAM in only for backwards compatibility. It has the exact amount required to go into Gamecube mode properly, and not a single byte more. The rest of the memory is GDDR, which should be much cheaper not least because it's a high-volume product, used by many, made by many.

Just speculating here, but I wouldn't take this to mean that Nintendo is banking on a non-mainstream main memory type again. It's probably used again to achieve good backwards compatibility with the Wii (and potentially Gamecube downloadables). Or maybe embedded as framebuffer memory, but much larger this time to accomodate 720p.

... or both. A 24MB 1T-SRAM buffer at high speeds could be the Wii U's native frame buffer, and at other times, downclocked, an emulated Wii's or an emulated Gamecube's main memory bank.

The GPU might not even need the old framebuffer and texture cache memories to provide full-speed emulation.

[liolio]

I read Charlie (and some others) claims about the llano supply problems (we could also consider deceiving Bulldozer unofficial previews). AMD lacking aside it seems that GF 32nm process is not doing good. If Charlie was right about MS expecting the first silicon the first silicon for their SoC in 2012 Q1 I expect things to look bad. Basically the odds (already low) for an anticipated launch in fall 2012 are buried for good.

[AlphaWolf]

Did anyone really expect a 2012 launch?

[Sonic]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf

Did anyone really expect a 2012 launch?

Originally, yes. But with Kinect the 360 should have enough legs to last another year before it needs to be replaced.

[Rangers]

2012 launch was always almost ruled out (well, since e3) because Halo 4 360 is in holiday 2012. They're not going to do a massive marketing campaign for that AND bring out a new console.

2013 is possible.

[rekator]

Originally Posted by Sonic

Originally, yes. But with Kinect the 360 should have enough legs to last another year before it needs to be replaced.

And Gears 3 shown that 360 have some room for upgrade graphics and can sell 3M games in one week. So the NPD and EU sells numbers will be very interesting to survey this end of year. The UE4 is also expect to release in 2014 and target next consoles…

[Urian]

Originally Posted by Rolf N

Now that's a surprise. Or could be. Err.

I thought the Wii kept 1T-SRAM in only for backwards compatibility. It has the exact amount required to go into Gamecube mode properly, and not a single byte more. The rest of the memory is GDDR, which should be much cheaper not least because it's a high-volume product, used by many, made by many.

Just speculating here, but I wouldn't take this to mean that Nintendo is banking on a non-mainstream main memory type again. It's probably used again to achieve good backwards compatibility with the Wii (and potentially Gamecube downloadables). Or maybe embedded as framebuffer memory, but much larger this time to accomodate 720p.

... or both. A 24MB 1T-SRAM buffer at high speeds could be the Wii U's native frame buffer, and at other times, downclocked, an emulated Wii's or an emulated Gamecube's main memory bank.

The GPU might not even need the old framebuffer and texture cache memories to provide full-speed emulation.

Even when I am the one who put the info into this thread I am skeptic about the use of the 1T-SRAM in Wii U. I am not saying that we aren´t going to see it into the motherboard but at the same time I doubt that it will be attached to the main GPU.

Do you remember the I/O Processor from PS2 that made the backwards compatibility possible and included 2MB of associated RAM? I believe that we are in front of a similar case, this time with a reduced Wii SoC and 88MB of 1T-SRAM as the associated memory for the small die that gives the Wii U the BC without affecting directly to the main CPU and main GPU design.

[liolio]

Originally Posted by Rangers

2012 launch was always almost ruled out (well, since e3) because Halo 4 360 is in holiday 2012. They're not going to do a massive marketing campaign for that AND bring out a new console.

2013 is possible.

Oops I completely forgot about Halo4 release (and in most my recent posts... ).

[Rangers]

Seems like a 2-bit website, but I found this rumors fun and plausible

http://sillegamer.com/?p=4231

The latest issue of Xbox World is reporting via the rumor section that a number of Microsoft developers are currently prepping a wave of brand new titles for the unannounced successor to the Xbox 360.

According to the November 2011 edition of the publication, a notable selection of high-profile development studios are now in the process of manning big-budget teams for a bout of new games for the Xbox 720.

Recent rumors floating about include the possibility that Turn 10 are hard at work on Forza 5 for the fabled next generation console, in addition to powerhouse developer Epic supposedly developing Gears of War 4 as a launch title for the device – tantalizingly rumored to be pegged in for a 2013 release.

”Rare, Lionhead and Turn 10 all have teams in place too – Rare, we hear, are even prototyping ideas for a new ‘mature’ title.”

Not sure I buy Gears 4 so soon (and without more leaks about it) but hey...at least they got 2013 (+) right. Any rumor claiming 2012 is suspect.

[NRP]

As much as I would like an upgraded 360, I think in the grand scheme of things the later they launch the more capable the hardware will be.

[Rangers]

Originally Posted by NRP

As much as I would like an upgraded 360, I think in the grand scheme of things the later they launch the more capable the hardware will be.

It will already be 8 years in 2013, how much longer do you want?

[NRP]

The wait isn't too painful for me personally. I think the current console games look pretty good. I can wait another year or two.

[BadTB25]

Originally Posted by NRP

The wait isn't too painful for me personally. I think the current console games look pretty good. I can wait another year or two.

I'm with you NRP. I don't really feel the itch yet or a new console.
It could be that the current gen still has the ability to wow you at times.

Minds could be changed with a demo or vid of what the next gen will offer.

[Barrabas]

I might be trowing stones in a glass house now, but I cant help thinking that the demand from people around the world that consoles must be so cheap is limiting the companies to make more powerful/futureproof hardware. I know expensive consoles does not sell very well because of this and the companies know that. I think thats sad, but what can we do? The strange thing is that millions of PC gamers often upgrade their PC with only a graphic card that costs more than a complete console, hey millions even pay more for a cellphone!!!. Me personally would like to see a market with low-, mid- and high end alternatives of consoles. I use my PS3 so much (several hours each day) and have so much fun playing online with friends, so for me it would be totally worth it to pay even 2000$. (I payed close to 1000$ here in Norway on release). So I would have given the high end alternative a shot, but because of the market situation, I would most likely be amongst a few people with maybe a limited amount of games available. Maybe each company could make one low/mid end console and one high end console which both could play all games from that company, but with different graphic settings like in the PC world?....I dont know. Please do not tell me to just use PC for gaming because I just like to jump in my sofa, fire up the projector and use the controller for gaming. I am finished using my PC for gaming. For the next generation, my hope is that at least one company pushes the limits and dont choose the "Nintendo way".

[AlphaWolf]

Making things more expensive in the technology world doesn't really make them future proof. You would extend the life slightly, but the benefit is very limited.

Imagine they had done what you suggest in 2005/6 what could they have managed? $1000 hardware with double the ram and a 15% higher clock in a box twice the size to accommodate the extra cooling? Does that even buy the hardware an extra year? The vast majority of people wouldn't spend that so the developers would still target the base system with the higher end ones getting a higher texture pack or maybe AA from the odd release.

[Rangers]

Originally Posted by BadTB25

It could be that the current gen still has the ability to wow you at times.

It's losing that ability for me. I was most wowed maybe back in 2006-7. Then there was another huge jump with Killzone 2 and Uncharted. Then other games took a few years to catch up to those two.

I dont see any "big" jumps at all anymore. Nothing shocks me on this hardware.

The games are AAAAAAAAAMAZING for this hardware though. That's why I'm itchy to see what they can do with a big jump in power, it's gonna be unreal!

[homerdog]

Originally Posted by BadTB25

I'm with you NRP. I don't really feel the itch yet or a new console.
It could be that the current gen still has the ability to wow you at times.

Minds could be changed with a demo or vid of what the next gen will offer.

Here's one vote for "thinks console games have looked bad for a while now and can't wait for the next generation to arrive."

And I agree that it's the case of "you don't know what you have 'till it's gone." By that I mean, if you've been gaming on PC at 60fps with increased detail and IQ settings, it really hurts to go back to ≤30fps 720p with crappy IQ. But if you don't know what you're missing, you probably won't be demanding a huge upgrade. I think that's what Epic was trying to accomplish with the Samaritan demo (i.e. show people what they're missing), and frankly I expect the next generation to end up well ahead of that (but not for launch titles obviously).

[Rangers]

Samaritan demo for me did not wow me near as much as UE3 demos (the brumak, etc) did back in the day.

I'm firmly against the "diminishing returns" camp and remain so, even believing the opposite. However, Samaritan demo unless it was just a bad demo, might be evidence the other way.

[wco81]

The current gen designs are based on what are now almost 10-year old designs?

A very long time in technology.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by BadTB25

I'm with you NRP. I don't really feel the itch yet or a new console.
It could be that the current gen still has the ability to wow you at times.

Minds could be changed with a demo or vid of what the next gen will offer.

I'm still wanting improvements in the games; the visuals would be good enough as long as the game experience evolved. eg. Syndicate and XCom are being remade as FPSes - whereas someone announcing a true-blue XCOM game for 2013 for PS360 would have me excited. From Dust has potential but needs to be evolved into a full game, but there would be a fabulous next-gen god game to wait for.

[BadTB25]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

I'm still wanting improvements in the games; the visuals would be good enough as long as the game experience evolved. eg. Syndicate and XCom are being remade as FPSes - whereas someone announcing a true-blue XCOM game for 2013 for PS360 would have me excited. From Dust has potential but needs to be evolved into a full game, but there would be a fabulous next-gen god game to wait for.

I'd agree to a point. I just feel that we are approaching that point where I'm not sure how big a difference it would make for me.

Besides looking prettier, I guess if I buy into 3D or holodeck tech, I don't see what is really going to get me to buy into next gen on day one.

It could be as homerdog has stated and that because I've been gaming on the old tech that I really don't know what I'm missing. Somehow, I just think that this gen has more to be squeezed out of it.

I'm actually quite surprised that Turn 10 has been able to up Forza 4's graphics from 3 in a short time with the added CPU overhead requirement for Kinect.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by BadTB25

I'd agree to a point. I just feel that we are approaching that point where I'm not sure how big a difference it would make for me.

I'm actually saying I'm happy with this gen and its potential. I want the games to get 'better', which they can do on the current boxes. We don't need new hardware to advance the games yet, and a release of new console next year say would just mean more fo the same with prettier graphics. Well, that's not worth hundreds of bucks IMHO. I'm happy to stick with what I've got hardwarewise and wish devs would improve their desgin skillzorz (not puttung noobs up against vets in multiplayer for example, or not having stupid Overkill Perks).

[homerdog]

Originally Posted by BadTB25

I'm actually quite surprised that Turn 10 has been able to up Forza 4's graphics from 3 in a short time with the added CPU overhead requirement for Kinect.

I saw a lot of F4 on a Top Gear episode and wasn't impressed. I think GRID on my PC looks better, and that game is old and developed on fewer resources than Turn 10 can throw at F4. High quality AA and AF make a tremendous difference.