Beyond3D Forum

covermye · 14-Jan-2003, 23:59

I'm hopin' somebody here can give me an idea outisde of the normal "reinstall drivers" advice:

I just installed my new Radeo 9500 Pro tonight. System was almost a clean install. I had a Radeon 8500 LE in it until this one came... I didn't uninstall the 8500LE's drivers, just swapped cards and Windows XP recognized the new card as a 9500 Pro and installed the correct drivers.

After seeing things weren't working quite right WRT FSAA, I uninstalled the drivers and reinstalled with the disk that came with the card.

I have full control over Aniso and Vsync, but no matter what I choose for FSAA, nothing works! Even in an obvious scenario (640 x 480), there is absolutely NO AA going on, regardless of whether I choose 2x, 4x, or 6x.

Any advice?

OpenGL guy · 15-Jan-2003, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by covermye

I have full control over Aniso and Vsync, but no matter what I choose for FSAA, nothing works! Even in an obvious scenario (640 x 480), there is absolutely NO AA going on, regardless of whether I choose 2x, 4x, or 6x.

Any advice?

Make sure you are in 32-bit mode unless you are using the latest leaked drivers. Some applications just won't work with forced AA because of memory requirements. Try something that's known to work (3D Mark for example).

Randell · 15-Jan-2003, 09:37

and reboot after switching modes - unfortunately that crept in as a requirement.

covermye · 15-Jan-2003, 12:17

The first game I installed (embarassingly) was Counter-Strike. It's obvious there's no AA going on at all. I took a couple of screen shots at a purposely low resolution (800x600) and all edges are stairstepped.

3DMark 2001 has no trouble enabling any form (2x, 4x, or 6x) of AA and all three are obviously different looking and performing. No problem there.

So I installed another DX game: Ghost Recon. Again, no AA even when forced in drivers and computer is rebooted.

I don't know why I can't get the pictures to post, but below are a couple of links to them:

www.fratco.com/PHOTOS/de_inferno0000.jpg
www.fratco.com/PHOTOS/de_inferno0001.jpg

Randell · 15-Jan-2003, 12:30

OK

counterstrike is 16 bit colour by default and the R300 chip doesnt do 16bit AA yet. You can force Counterstriek and half-life etc mods to run in 32 bit by adding-32bpp to the command line after the .exe.

Ghost Recon - it AA's on my 9700 - check your graphic options and ensure you are running in at least a 32bit colour with at least a 24bit z buffer which I think is an configurable option. Again if either are 16bit this will turn off AA.

covermye · 15-Jan-2003, 13:31

Oops... I did forget the -32bpp option after the re-install. I'll try it this afternoon when I get home. Don't I look stupid?

Re: Ghost Recon, I'm almost sure I was running 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-buffer. I'll double check settings again tonight to be sure.

Thanks for the advice though. I appreciate it...

-Chris

jb · 15-Jan-2003, 13:55

Yes that should take care of the issue. I installed a 9500pro on my dads PC and thats the first thing I did as even for an older fella, he likes to play CS once in awhile. Once you make that switch you should have AA...except where you see alpha textures.

Randell · 15-Jan-2003, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by covermye

Oops... I did forget the -32bpp option after the re-install. I'll try it this afternoon when I get home. Don't I look stupid?

Re: Ghost Recon, I'm almost sure I was running 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-buffer. I'll double check settings again tonight to be sure.

Thanks for the advice though. I appreciate it...

-Chris

np I've looked stupid many a time

I've just checked GR and I'm on 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-buffer and I do have AA. Just up it to 32bitZ-buffer and reboot and see what happens.

OpenGL guy · 15-Jan-2003, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randell

I've just checked GR and I'm on 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-buffer and I do have AA. Just up it to 32bitZ-buffer and reboot and see what happens.

32-bit Z buffer shouldn't make a differnce for AA, but things will look better because of the increased Z precision.

Randell · 16-Jan-2003, 07:59

Well yes 24 bit buffer should allow AA but it was worth a shot if it didnt

Is there a performance hit going 24 to 32?

covermye · 16-Jan-2003, 12:12

The problem with GR is merely that I didn't reboot. The problem with CS was that I was in too big of a hurry to remember to add the -32bpp switch.

I played CS last night for a little while at 6X AA and max Aniso at 1024x768. It's still crappy CS, but was an impressive difference...

Thanks,

Chris

Randell · 16-Jan-2003, 13:54

heh np - GR foxed me as well at first as this rebooting nonsense is a new issue.

OpenGL guy · 16-Jan-2003, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randell

heh np - GR foxed me as well at first as this rebooting nonsense is a new issue.

When did this pop up? I haven't seen this problem with any of the latest drivers/control panels.

Randell · 16-Jan-2003, 20:57

DX9 and Cat 3's in D3D. Several threads at Rage3d too.

saf1 · 23-Jan-2003, 00:52

I don't mean to hijack your thread but you mentioned AA/FSAA strange'ness. Well I too am seeing goofy things. In fact, I sent ATI and Mythic (game developer) logs to see what is going on.

In short, when playing Dark Age of Camelot / Shrouded Isle (exp pack) my system will freeze up when I pan the camera view around. Happens every time. I was running in 32bit color mode, 1280x1024x32 and AA set to 6x and Anisotropic Filtering set to 8x and even 16x. This is on a 9500 Pro.

If I disable AA/FSAA it will work fine. Every time. I'm running the latest Cat certified 3.0 drivers with DX9. Again, official release. Win XP, SP1. Another machine with nvidia card runs great - lol.

Error after I reboot is:
szAppName : Drivers.Display szAppVer : 10024E450000021002
szModName : ati2dvag.dll szModVer : 6.14.1.6255 Offset : B42606EA

So far, ATI says it is my comp and a driver/dll issue. My issue is it runs fine until I enable AA!!!! I can reproduce anytime. In fact, when I enable it, I still see jaggies...

WaltC · 23-Jan-2003, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randell

and reboot after switching modes - unfortunately that crept in as a requirement.

Not for me. Never was a requirement. I've seen this in a couple of threads @ Rage 3D referenced by maybe half-a-dozen people, but I've never had to reboot to change modes. There's no requirement for it--something's wrong somewhere in your system/driver installation if it's now "required" for you.

Randell · 23-Jan-2003, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaltC

There's no requirement for it--something's wrong somewhere in your system/driver installation if it's now "required" for you.

you know Walt you said the exact same thing to anyone who complained of the OGL stutter bug, yet ATI admitted it was their fault and fixed it. It may be system dependant, it even be app/game dependant, but I'll be damned if I try every D3D title in my collection to find out. Maybe it is app dependant and you dont have a D3D title affected. If you never turn AA off or change AA modes then you would never notice.

One thing is for sure - as it is reproducable by a lot of people and exhibits the same behaviour, and isnt present in the Cat 2.4's or 2.5's I know what I'm blaming.

Tagrineth · 23-Jan-2003, 15:12

Hmm... well now that I have my 9500Pro I have to say the DX9 demos are absolutely stunning

But the CAT 3.0's had some odd problems... Serious Sam couldn't start, and the display went straight to hell after it pre-crashed. And after restarting, all my desktop icons turned into large solid white squares.

Also the display went somewhat haywire when the CAT3's did their 'test' on first boot...

So I'm using CAT2.5, but I have to restart for AA settings anyway. Blarg.

Randell · 23-Jan-2003, 15:20

SS works for me with Cat 3.0a's. Actually I find that several reboots are required after a Cat install on my 9700Pro before everything settles dwon. Most odd. Might be Smartgart.

Basic · 23-Jan-2003, 18:50

About rebooting after AA change:
My GF2 needs all programs using DX to be shut down before new AA settings is used. This means that webbrowser that show flash contents needs to be shut down.

Could this be something similar. Is it that some people have some background program that inadvertedly locks up DX so it can't change AA mode. And the only time that program is shut down is when rebooting.

Tagrineth · 23-Jan-2003, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basic

About rebooting after AA change:
My GF2 needs all programs using DX to be shut down before new AA settings is used. This means that webbrowser that show flash contents needs to be shut down.

Could this be something similar. Is it that some people have some background program that inadvertedly locks up DX so it can't change AA mode. And the only time that program is shut down is when rebooting.

...as of Win98, Windows itself relies on DirectDraw.

Basic · 23-Jan-2003, 20:33

Uhmm, oops, of course. So I have to rephrase that.
All programs using <some unknown subset of DX functions> needs to be shut down for AA settings in the drivers to take effect on my GF2.

Uhm, that wasn't the full truth either. The programs doesn't need to be restarted. I've seen that if you only have one "offending" program that uses D3D, and it restarts it's D3D stuff, then that's enough. The program doesn't have to be restarted. But it's enough to have Flash running in a web browser to lock the AA level. Does flash use D3D?

So an experiment that I would recomend for those that need to restart windows to enable AA changes, is to shut down as many programs as possible, and see if it helps.

Colourless · 24-Jan-2003, 07:26

It's because flash uses DirectDraw, and until Direct3D 8, DirectDraw to get access to Direct3D surfaces. DX8 just hides all the icky DirectDraw stuff, but in the background it's still there.

14-Jan-2003, 23:59	#1
covermye Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monon, IN Posts: 40	New 9500 Pro won't FSAA! I'm hopin' somebody here can give me an idea outisde of the normal "reinstall drivers" advice: I just installed my new Radeo 9500 Pro tonight. System was almost a clean install. I had a Radeon 8500 LE in it until this one came... I didn't uninstall the 8500LE's drivers, just swapped cards and Windows XP recognized the new card as a 9500 Pro and installed the correct drivers. After seeing things weren't working quite right WRT FSAA, I uninstalled the drivers and reinstalled with the disk that came with the card. I have full control over Aniso and Vsync, but no matter what I choose for FSAA, nothing works! Even in an obvious scenario (640 x 480), there is absolutely NO AA going on, regardless of whether I choose 2x, 4x, or 6x. Any advice?

23-Jan-2003, 15:12	#18
Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny (boring) Florida Posts: 2,512	Hmm... well now that I have my 9500Pro I have to say the DX9 demos are absolutely stunning But the CAT 3.0's had some odd problems... Serious Sam couldn't start, and the display went straight to hell after it pre-crashed. And after restarting, all my desktop icons turned into large solid white squares. Also the display went somewhat haywire when the CAT3's did their 'test' on first boot... So I'm using CAT2.5, but I have to restart for AA settings anyway. Blarg. __________________ For Great Justice Move Every 'Zig'

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15-Jan-2003, 09:37	#3
Randell Senior Daddy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,869	and reboot after switching modes - unfortunately that crept in as a requirement.

15-Jan-2003, 12:17	#4
covermye Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monon, IN Posts: 40	The first game I installed (embarassingly) was Counter-Strike. It's obvious there's no AA going on at all. I took a couple of screen shots at a purposely low resolution (800x600) and all edges are stairstepped. 3DMark 2001 has no trouble enabling any form (2x, 4x, or 6x) of AA and all three are obviously different looking and performing. No problem there. So I installed another DX game: Ghost Recon. Again, no AA even when forced in drivers and computer is rebooted. I don't know why I can't get the pictures to post, but below are a couple of links to them: www.fratco.com/PHOTOS/de_inferno0000.jpg www.fratco.com/PHOTOS/de_inferno0001.jpg

15-Jan-2003, 12:30	#5
Randell Senior Daddy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,869	OK counterstrike is 16 bit colour by default and the R300 chip doesnt do 16bit AA yet. You can force Counterstriek and half-life etc mods to run in 32 bit by adding-32bpp to the command line after the .exe. Ghost Recon - it AA's on my 9700 - check your graphic options and ensure you are running in at least a 32bit colour with at least a 24bit z buffer which I think is an configurable option. Again if either are 16bit this will turn off AA.

15-Jan-2003, 13:31	#6
covermye Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monon, IN Posts: 40	Oops... I did forget the -32bpp option after the re-install. I'll try it this afternoon when I get home. Don't I look stupid? Re: Ghost Recon, I'm almost sure I was running 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-buffer. I'll double check settings again tonight to be sure. Thanks for the advice though. I appreciate it... -Chris

15-Jan-2003, 13:55	#7
jb Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,636	Yes that should take care of the issue. I installed a 9500pro on my dads PC and thats the first thing I did as even for an older fella, he likes to play CS once in awhile. Once you make that switch you should have AA...except where you see alpha textures.

16-Jan-2003, 07:59	#10
Randell Senior Daddy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,869	Well yes 24 bit buffer should allow AA but it was worth a shot if it didnt Is there a performance hit going 24 to 32?

16-Jan-2003, 12:12	#11
covermye Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monon, IN Posts: 40	The problem with GR is merely that I didn't reboot. The problem with CS was that I was in too big of a hurry to remember to add the -32bpp switch. I played CS last night for a little while at 6X AA and max Aniso at 1024x768. It's still crappy CS, but was an impressive difference... Thanks, Chris

16-Jan-2003, 13:54	#12
Randell Senior Daddy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,869	heh np - GR foxed me as well at first as this rebooting nonsense is a new issue.

16-Jan-2003, 20:57	#14
Randell Senior Daddy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,869	DX9 and Cat 3's in D3D. Several threads at Rage3d too.

23-Jan-2003, 00:52	#15
saf1 Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 235	I don't mean to hijack your thread but you mentioned AA/FSAA strange'ness. Well I too am seeing goofy things. In fact, I sent ATI and Mythic (game developer) logs to see what is going on. In short, when playing Dark Age of Camelot / Shrouded Isle (exp pack) my system will freeze up when I pan the camera view around. Happens every time. I was running in 32bit color mode, 1280x1024x32 and AA set to 6x and Anisotropic Filtering set to 8x and even 16x. This is on a 9500 Pro. If I disable AA/FSAA it will work fine. Every time. I'm running the latest Cat certified 3.0 drivers with DX9. Again, official release. Win XP, SP1. Another machine with nvidia card runs great - lol. Error after I reboot is: szAppName : Drivers.Display szAppVer : 10024E450000021002 szModName : ati2dvag.dll szModVer : 6.14.1.6255 Offset : B42606EA So far, ATI says it is my comp and a driver/dll issue. My issue is it runs fine until I enable AA!!!! I can reproduce anytime. In fact, when I enable it, I still see jaggies...

23-Jan-2003, 15:20	#19
Randell Senior Daddy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,869	SS works for me with Cat 3.0a's. Actually I find that several reboots are required after a Cat install on my 9700Pro before everything settles dwon. Most odd. Might be Smartgart.

23-Jan-2003, 18:50	#20
Basic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Linköping, Sweden Posts: 846	About rebooting after AA change: My GF2 needs all programs using DX to be shut down before new AA settings is used. This means that webbrowser that show flash contents needs to be shut down. Could this be something similar. Is it that some people have some background program that inadvertedly locks up DX so it can't change AA mode. And the only time that program is shut down is when rebooting.

23-Jan-2003, 20:33	#22
Basic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Linköping, Sweden Posts: 846	Uhmm, oops, of course. So I have to rephrase that. All programs using <some unknown subset of DX functions> needs to be shut down for AA settings in the drivers to take effect on my GF2. Uhm, that wasn't the full truth either. The programs doesn't need to be restarted. I've seen that if you only have one "offending" program that uses D3D, and it restarts it's D3D stuff, then that's enough. The program doesn't have to be restarted. But it's enough to have Flash running in a web browser to lock the AA level. Does flash use D3D? So an experiment that I would recomend for those that need to restart windows to enable AA changes, is to shut down as many programs as possible, and see if it helps.

24-Jan-2003, 07:26	#23
Colourless Monochrome wench Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in outback South Australia Posts: 1,257	It's because flash uses DirectDraw, and until Direct3D 8, DirectDraw to get access to Direct3D surfaces. DX8 just hides all the icky DirectDraw stuff, but in the background it's still there.

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