[SaCRedONe]

Can we get a breakdown of the information that has been cofirmed pls?

[Bobbler]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

That's if the TSMC outsourcing rumors pan out though. Sony's set to fab RSX on 65nm as soon as the process is ready, so I'm not sure if we'll ever see it on the 80nm half-node, even if available to MS and Xenos in the interim.

Nvidia confirmed that RSX (in some meeting Uttar recently dictated) was being fabbed at Sony and Toshiba's fabs (that's where they spent a lot of time setting up the fabs for RSX). I'm not convinced those TSMC rumors hold any water...

[wco81]

We'll either have a repeat of the EE or GS yield problems which led to the PS2 shortages at launch or we won't.

And didn't the PSP have production problems because of the GPU yields too?

I also seem to recall Sony made some kind of a filing around the time of the PS2 launch which listed all the risks, like fabricating on what was then a cutting-edge process, Rambus, etc.

[Carl B]

Originally Posted by wco81

We'll either have a repeat of the EE or GS yield problems which led to the PS2 shortages at launch or we won't.

And didn't the PSP have production problems because of the GPU yields too?

I also seem to recall Sony made some kind of a filing around the time of the PS2 launch which listed all the risks, like fabricating on what was then a cutting-edge process, Rambus, etc.

Well, I mean it would simply be unbelievable for the yields to be *that* bad. EE and GS are truly in a class all their own in terms of yields. I can undertsand bad, but I'm 99% of the mind that they have to be better than the initial PS2 yields were. GS especially was legendary.

They did have yield issues with the PSP as well though... and PSX also. All wrapped up in their bumpy move to 90nm. Cell is SOI so Sony's previous 90nm experience doesn't necessarilly apply like it will to RSX either, but IBM's been doing 90nm SOI for a while so I'd have to imagine in the end, the hiccups couldn't be too extreme over at Fishkill. But IBM did make the comment of 'fastest yield learning' ever with Cell, so that may imply it was unusually bad before. I think after a year now of fabbing though it'd be hard for the Cell to be more of a bottleneck than the BD drives in terms of production, especially since BD is in a holding pattern.

I think that Sony's extremity of delay is simply to recast the launch as global, not because they wouldn't have been able to launch in Japan September or something (with meager volumes) if they wanted to.

[Johnny Awesome]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

I think you and I have different estimations of what the word 'lie' means.
If you don't like KK, I don't even have an issue with that. It's just why drag that into this thread, which is really a celebration of so much waiting on some of our parts? This thread isn't 'serious' in nature IMO, it's more of a stress release. Believe me the debate threads will come as the monthe/weeks/days go by.

Listen, just because a lie doesn't bother you or is totally expected from Sony doesn't make it anything other than a lie. It just means that it is a lie you expected that doesn't bother you. I'm simply stating a fact: KK and Sony lied about Killzone, playable at TGS, February conference, and Spring launch. They have no credibility, so how can there be a celebration?

The title of this thread is "PS Business Briefing", not "Sony fans PS3 party". I don't go into MGS threads to piss on MGS even though I can't stand the series, but this thread is not a PS3 appreciation thread. It's a business briefing and deserves to be treated with the same skepticism that anything MS or Nintendo put out there.

When Sony fans were criticizing the world-wide launch strategy, I didn't go into the thread and tell all the Sony fans they were pissing on the MS party. I debated the points and made my argument. This is a discussion forum.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

According to Moore, about 10% of gamers never save

And what he is trying to say is that....?

[Moonblade]

Wow, this news is great because I was expecting a spring 2007 release for Europe.
With that 'free' basic online service and a 60 GB HDD, they have my attention.

[Carl B]

Originally Posted by Johnny Awesome

Listen, just because a lie doesn't bother you or is totally expected from Sony doesn't make it anything other than a lie. It just means that it is a lie you expected that doesn't bother you. I'm simply stating a fact: KK and Sony lied about Killzone, playable at TGS, February conference, and Spring launch. They have no credibility, so how can there be a celebration?

The title of this thread is "PS Business Briefing", not "Sony fans PS3 party". I don't go into MGS threads to piss on MGS even though I can't stand the series, but this thread is not a PS3 appreciation thread. It's a business briefing and deserves to be treated with the same skepticism that anything MS or Nintendo put out there.

When Sony fans were criticizing the world-wide launch strategy, I didn't go into the thread and tell all the Sony fans they were pissing on the MS party. I debated the points and made my argument. This is a discussion forum.

Alright, fair enough. You've made your points though - several times - so please let's let the rest of the discussion procede. Exposing and debating the 'illusory' powers of Ken Kutaragi is not a productive line of conversation.

Everyone is aware of their own internal feelings on Sony's past transgressions without the need to project them upon others. I'm not sure why several folk take umbrage at other people's being 'pleased' with this news. Regardless of how you may view it, this isn't some Sony herd-fanboi reaction; some people are genuinly pleased by what they heard.

If we want to discuss the global launch though, alright let's discuss it.

[Sis]

Originally Posted by Moonblade

Wow, this news is great because I was expecting a spring 2007 release for Europe.
With that 'free' basic online service and a 60 GB HDD, they have my attention.

Watch that "basic" part that everyone glosses over. If basic service allows for online gaming, one has to question what the "extended" or "advanced" online service would be. In relation to Xbox Live, the basic part exists for free, but the advanced part is the ability to play online.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by Sis

Watch that "basic" part that everyone glosses over. If basic service allows for online gaming, one has to question what the "extended" or "advanced" online service would be. In relation to Xbox Live, the basic part exists for free, but the advanced part is the ability to play online.

If thats the case its bad.But then again it seems they need to cover up the costs for offering the imporvements.I hope its not the case though

[Robert.L]

Originally Posted by Johnny Awesome

Listen, just because a lie doesn't bother you or is totally expected from Sony doesn't make it anything other than a lie. It just means that it is a lie you expected that doesn't bother you. I'm simply stating a fact: KK and Sony lied about Killzone, playable at TGS, February conference, and Spring launch. They have no credibility, so how can there be a celebration?

What has Sony lied about killzone ? they never said it was game play neither have they said that it was CGI and as far as TGS yes kk a Sony rep denounced that priory to TGS and later KK or kaz apologist for that and apparently Feb conference was moved to march and spring launch moved up to November but at least Sony is planning to launch WW.

And by your logic MS doesn't have that much cred either since i still don't see a standard HDD and wireless controller on every 360 like MS promised ..but hey let’s just completely ignore that and burry it with all the other BS MS spouted about Xbox like the last time.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Johnny Awesome

Listen, just because a lie doesn't bother you or is totally expected from Sony doesn't make it anything other than a lie.

A lie is deliberately misleading/misinforming. Do you have evidence that Sony have no intention to launch in November worldwide but are saying as such to the contrary? Do you have evidence that they never intended to launch in Spring but have always wanted to launch 2007 and just lied saying Spring first of all and now November to string people along? Can you state categorically that Sony has never changed it's plans based on unforseen circumstances; that they are 100% in control of anything and everything relating to their consoles' development and fabrication and all parties involved, including the many members of the Bluray consortiuum, hence elliminating any possibility of unexpected problems interfering with their plans?

[blakjedi]

Originally Posted by Robert.L

What has Sony lied about killzone ? they never said it was game play neither have they said that it was CGI and as far as TGS yes kk a Sony rep denounced that priory to TGS and later KK or kaz apologist for that and apparently Feb conference was moved to march and spring launch moved up to November but at least Sony is planning to launch WW.

And by your logic MS doesn't have that much cred either since i still don't see a standard HDD and wireless controller on every 360 like MS promised ..but hey let’s just completely ignore that and burry it with all the other BS MS spouted about Xbox like the last time.

there isnt a wireless controller in every box? i dont remember buying two wireless controllers... damn i got gypped!!!!

[Moonblade]

Originally Posted by Sis

Watch that "basic" part that everyone glosses over. If basic service allows for online gaming, one has to question what the "extended" or "advanced" online service would be. In relation to Xbox Live, the basic part exists for free, but the advanced part is the ability to play online.

True.
I am expecting the worst but still hoping for a basic online 'gaming' experience. They can still launch an 'extended' service with rankings, new content, voice speak, email, friendlist or even an avatar. The opposite of Xbox Live actually.

[Johnny Awesome]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

Alright, fair enough. You've made your points though - several times - so please let's let the rest of the discussion procede. Exposing and debating the 'illusory' powers of Ken Kutaragi is not a productive line of conversation.

Thank you for the reasoned response. I'll let it drop for now.

[scooby_dooby]

Originally Posted by Nesh

And what he is trying to say is that....?

Well I guess in the context he was using it in, it was justification for not having a standard HDD, but really it's just an interesting factoid.

Originally Posted by Moonblade

Wow, this news is great because I was expecting a spring 2007 release for Europe.
With that 'free' basic online service and a 60 GB HDD, they have my attention.

The way it breaks down should be like this: Japanese should be dissapointed because their launch is delayed, NA's should be dissapointed because they will be getting much less supply than they would've with the spring japanese launch. IMO, the only people that should consider this 'good' news are the europeans and the ozzies.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

Well I guess in the context he was using it in, it was justification for not having a standard HDD, but really it's just an interesting factoid.

oh well.To tell the truth I dont think a HDD which has a capacity of GBs is needed to save games.A mem card though is needed hands down
But when MS announced they wouldnt have the HDD as standard I was surprised, and thought it as a bad idea because XBOX live is a very important part of the XBOX brand experience, and ofcourse a HDD is needed if someone wants to enjoy the content Live offers.

[gokickrocks]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Controller prototypes? Why would you need prototypes and a final version of the controller if it's no different from DS2 in functionality? Does this hint at more than just sticks+buttons?

the controller is still in prototype stage because its going to be different from DS2 in functionality unless they pay up ...they got sued and lost big...then they tried to appeal it and iirc, the appeal got rejected (microsoft got sued as well, but settled and are now licensing the technology, they will also make money from sony as well if they decide to stick with the technology because of some other licensing mumbo jumbo)

i guess you can say sony is "up the creek without a paddle"

[Titanio]

Originally Posted by gokickrocks

the controller is still in prototype stage because its going to be different from DS2 in functionality unless they pay up ...they got sued and lost big...then they tried to appeal it and iirc, the appeal got rejected

a) They're appealing again

b) The only thing the Immersion lawsuit affects is rumble implementation. Nothing more, nothing less. Not the aesthetic design of the controller nor the rest of the functionality.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by gokickrocks

the controller is still in prototype stage because its going to be different from DS2 in functionality unless they pay up ...they got sued and lost big...

That only means the absence of rumble, which doesn't need a new controller to develop for but a DS2 without using rumble features. If the controls of PS3 controller are the same as DS2, a different controller isn't needed for development. Though...doesn't PS3 controller have analogue triggers? I guess that would be something devs would need to gauge, needing final examples.

[MrWibble]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

That only means the absence of rumble, which doesn't need a new controller to develop for but a DS2 without using rumble features. If the controls of PS3 controller are the same as DS2, a different controller isn't needed for development.

The nature of patents would mean it might not even be that bad. They might just have to implement the feature in a sufficiently different way, or if that's not possible, pay up for a license like other companies did.

I quite like the rumble, I'd hope it wouldn't be removed entirely. I mean it's not often implemented particularly well, but when it is it can be a nice extra form of feedback.

Perhaps instead of removing it, they'll develop it in a different direction (and if I could think of any good examples of what I mean, I'd patent them )

[V3]

Originally Posted by MrWibble

The nature of patents would mean it might not even be that bad. They might just have to implement the feature in a sufficiently different way, or if that's not possible, pay up for a license like other companies did.

I quite like the rumble, I'd hope it wouldn't be removed entirely. I mean it's not often implemented particularly well, but when it is it can be a nice extra form of feedback.

Perhaps instead of removing it, they'll develop it in a different direction (and if I could think of any good examples of what I mean, I'd patent them )

Well I like extra feedback too, but rumble in DS and DS2 are just bad. Hopefully they'll think of something better instead of just licensing the tech, because the tech sucks.

[scooby_dooby]

what does 360 use? it works great, I love flying in the chopper in GRAW and the whole controller rumbles in your hand from the vibrations, kinda puts your hand to sleep after extended periods though

[Crossbar]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

Cell is SOI so Sony's previous 90nm experience doesn't necessarilly apply like it will to RSX either, but IBM's been doing 90nm SOI for a while so I'd have to imagine in the end, the hiccups couldn't be too extreme over at Fishkill. But IBM did make the comment of 'fastest yield learning' ever with Cell, so that may imply it was unusually bad before. I think after a year now of fabbing though it'd be hard for the Cell to be more of a bottleneck than the BD drives in terms of production, especially since BD is in a holding pattern.

Here's some fresh info about the cell production

Sony has begun volume production of its Cell processor, the core of the PS3, at its Nagasaki Fab 2.

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showA...leID=181503783

[Carl B]

Good find there Crossbar, I guess there we go for Nagasaki.