[dodo3]

Originally Posted by Reuters

Chairman Bill Gates said on Monday.
"We'll play again," Gates told Reuters in a telephone interview ahead of the Xbox 360 launch on Tuesday.

"We learned a lot in the first round. We've got a chance not just to have higher market share, but also to grow the size of this market substantially," Gates said.
"In terms of how we've balanced technology in the machine, we feel certain we've done a better job than Sony," he said.
"You won't really know that until a year from now, when people are talking about how the games on our machines compare to the games on Sony's machines," Gates said.

This is quite shocking to me. Especially since this is the day before your console launchs in the United States. I guess Bill Gates isn't very confident.

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[Gubbi]

Originally Posted by dodo3

I guess Bill Gates isn't very confident.

Originally Posted by BG

In terms of how we've balanced technology in the machine, we feel certain we've done a better job than Sony

Right....

Cheers

[Bill]

I think this time they'll figure out how important power is. Especially after 5 years of possible Xbox 1.5 references, being raked over the coals gleefully by hating journalists as less powerful than PS3, and such.

And they say MS gets it right on the third try..

If MS sets their mind too it, they can always beat Sony on power if launched in the same timeframe. Simply because they can lose more money.

I do think for the most part MS has shown to be vastly better hardware engineers than Sony. Interesting Gates hinted at that.

The only quibble I have with 360 is the EDRAM. That's a huge one. But Sony is making things a lot more difficult for themselves than it needs to be on the other hand.

[dodo3]

Originally Posted by Bill

I think this time they'll figure out how important power is. Especially after 5 years of possible Xbox 1.5 references, being raked over the coals gleefully by hating journalists as less powerful than PS3, and such.

And they say MS gets it right on the third try..

If MS sets their mind too it, they can always beat Sony on power in the same timeframe. Simply because they can lose more money.

I wonder what Sony is going to do with the PlayStation 4 when the time comes... I wonder if they'll even have enough money to bring another console in the market.

[Jon Brittan]

Originally Posted by Bill

I think this time they'll figure out how important power is. Especially after 5 years of possible Xbox 1.5 references, being raked over the coals gleefully by hating journalists as less powerful than PS3, and such.

And they say MS gets it right on the third try..

I think that statement in itself proves just how irrelevant power actually is and how important mindshare is instead.
Last generation MS had a notable power advantage over both Sony and Nintendo, yet Sony were still the major player and the largest number of people raved about Sony's games etc.
Now we're at a point where people are pointing at Sony as going to lead this generation (which they almost certainly will, but not for this reason) because they have the most powerful machine...

What it is, is simply an entrenched mindset that Sony is the dominant player, the reasoning people come up with to establish why is more to justify the feeling than a reason for it. The one thing Sony truly have done well is to establish the concept that they are the dominant gaming company, they'll then pretty much let people decide for themselves just why that is.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Jon Brittan

I think that statement in itself proves just how irrelevant power actually is and how important mindshare is instead.
.

Well that's interesting that people devote so many posts to showing X360 is underpowered, then. If it's not important.

It's very important and they know it.

Also Xbox won 2004 in the largest videogame market. Then MS basically killed it themselves. Pretty impressive frankly. It had all the momentum.

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by dodo3

I wonder what Sony is going to do with the PlayStation 4 when the time comes... I wonder if they'll even have enough money to bring another console in the market.

Oh please, not this "Sony are teh broke, they have a 1Trillion debt!!11" argument again...

[Jon Brittan]

Originally Posted by Bill

Well that's interesting that people devote so many posts to showing X360 is underpowered, then. If it's not important.

It's very important and they know it.

Also Xbox won 2004 in the largest videogame market. Then MS basically killed it themselves. Pretty impressive frankly. It had all the momentum.

But if you really look at it closely, many of those people posting about X360 being under-powered were likely the same people who were stating that power didn't matter when it came to Xbox vs PS2, the vast majority of people are very fickle with their views, changing them to suit their allegiances at any point in time. Many of those same people, if for whatever reason they suddenly decided to get an X360 instead of a PS3 would almost certainly rapidly change that view again.

Power, IMO, is not very important, it is simply important, much like many of the other factors which some of these people role out to be the sole reason why any given console will suceed or fail.
Realistically a console will suceed or fail based upon a combination of its power, the games available for it, its market penetration and the mindset of the current and potential consumers.
All of those factors and more are equally important, certain people try to bring the argument down to focusing on a single issue as it suits the requirements of their argument far more simply, or in some cases because they simply don't understand the reality of the situation.

Xbox might have been gaining momentum, but it wasn't purely down to power and the Xbox brand will continue to gain momentum with the X360.

Xbox was the most powerful console of its generation, but did it win that generation? No.
Did Xbox get MS the foothold it was looking for in the market? Yes.
Xbox 360 will not be the most powerful console of its generation, but will it win this generation? Most likely, no.
Will X360 continue to expand MSs market share as a percentage of the total market? Most likely, yes.

[dodo3]

Originally Posted by london-boy

Oh please, not this "Sony are teh broke, they have a 1Trillion debt!!11" argument again...

No, you misunderstand me. Sorry. I just hope Howard Stringer can bring Sony back to the top again.

[Bad_Boy]

how can billy say they have done better than sony this time around when sony has barely even shown their hand yet? either way, dealer wins.

dealer = teh consumer.

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by Bill

Also Xbox won 2004 in the largest videogame market. Then MS basically killed it themselves. Pretty impressive frankly. It had all the momentum.

Did you mean that in 2004 Xbox sold more in the US than Sony? Is that even true?

[Phil]

Originally Posted by london-boy

Did you mean that in 2004 Xbox sold more in the US than Sony? Is that even true?

Ditto. Sony shipped roughly 3 million PS2s in America during the whole of 2004.

[AbbA]

An hardware with an obsolete DVD-Rom, an hardware without a digital output.
Two version, one of its without hard disk.
I'm not so sure he said the truth.

[Bill]

I know MS outsold Sony in hardware in December and November 2004 in North America. The two biggest months obviously.

And they won 6 or 7 months overall.

Overall it had to be close, anyway. If MS didn't outsell them.

[Phil]

I really find that hard to believe, really. Without any links to back this up, I for one am going to remain sceptical.

[Johnny Awesome]

Originally Posted by Jon Brittan

What it is, is simply an entrenched mindset that Sony is the dominant player, the reasoning people come up with to establish why is more to justify the feeling than a reason for it. The one thing Sony truly have done well is to establish the concept that they are the dominant gaming company, they'll then pretty much let people decide for themselves just why that is.

That is exactly right. Very well said. MS is trying to change that mindset. We'll see how successful they are in doing so.

[Bill]

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=11067

Google will tell you all you need to know as well.

[dantruon]

so what if it beat Sony in NA by a small margin, just look at Japan where it seel less than the ps1 almost every single week.

[Johnny Awesome]

Originally Posted by Jon Brittan

But if you really look at it closely, many of those people posting about X360 being under-powered were likely the same people who were stating that power didn't matter when it came to Xbox vs PS2, the vast majority of people are very fickle with their views, changing them to suit their allegiances at any point in time. Many of those same people, if for whatever reason they suddenly decided to get an X360 instead of a PS3 would almost certainly rapidly change that view again.

Power, IMO, is not very important, it is simply important, much like many of the other factors which some of these people role out to be the sole reason why any given console will suceed or fail.
Realistically a console will suceed or fail based upon a combination of its power, the games available for it, its market penetration and the mindset of the current and potential consumers.
All of those factors and more are equally important, certain people try to bring the argument down to focusing on a single issue as it suits the requirements of their argument far more simply, or in some cases because they simply don't understand the reality of the situation.

Xbox might have been gaining momentum, but it wasn't purely down to power and the Xbox brand will continue to gain momentum with the X360.

Xbox was the most powerful console of its generation, but did it win that generation? No.
Did Xbox get MS the foothold it was looking for in the market? Yes.
Xbox 360 will not be the most powerful console of its generation, but will it win this generation? Most likely, no.
Will X360 continue to expand MSs market share as a percentage of the total market? Most likely, yes.

I couldn't agree more. Power is only a small part of the equation IMO. Especially when the consoles are going to be essentially running the same 3rd party games.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Bill

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=11067

Google will tell you all you need to know as well.

Excellent, thanks. I really didn't know - must of been those two months when Halo 2 came out?

In anycase, over the entire year 2004 based on that data, it wasn't that close at all: PS2 sales 4606,545 vs Xbox 2979,771. Not bad I suppose though.

[london-boy]

Oh so MS outselling Sony 2 months of the year (and Sony outselling MS the other 10) suddenly means, in your own words, "Also Xbox won 2004 in the largest videogame market" ?
Funny enough it was only when Halo 2 came out and PS2 had no big games coming out in that period except maybe MGS3, and the momentum lasted 2 months. Hardly anything to write home about.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by Bill

I know MS outsold Sony in hardware in December and November 2004 in North America. The two biggest months obviously.

And they won 6 or 7 months overall.

Overall it had to be close, anyway. If MS didn't outsell them.

That doesnt mean much actually considering that the PS2 approached all its possible consumers it could get by that time.It wasnt because XBOX was prefered more than the PS2.And we are talking about small differences too.

[drpepper]

Yes, Halo 2 coming out probably explains the surge in Xbox sales. But it was hardly enough to sustain that momentum.

Shortly after I believe GT4, God of War and Devil May Cry 3 came out for winter-spring 05.

MS has to compete with the likes of these. that's why Sony has so much sway.

[Nick Laslett]

Originally Posted by dodo3

I wonder what Sony is going to do with the PlayStation 4 when the time comes...

I think Sony are playing the long game. A much longer game than MS. I figure Sony expect MS to play a third hand.

The painful and expensive shift to CELL will come into it's own in 8 years time.

I expect Sony to scale up the Playstation 4. It won't be a new console at all, just a PS3 with more CELLS. They should reap major economies of scale, die shrink, and all those other things about Chip manufacturing which goes over my head.

People with a PS3 will be able to upgrade the console to a PS4 by buying an add-on.

Blu-Ray will still be the format of choice. Without a major shift in display devices there is no need to go to a new format.

The adoption of 360 and PS3 will be slower than with the present generation. We are reaching the point of diminishing returns for the mass market consumer. You need a HDTV to enjoy these new consoles, that will make the adoption rate much slower.

On a SD TV the difference between the current gen and next gen is not great enough.

The PS2 still has to hit the $99 price point.

Once the Hardcore have all bought their next-gen consoles, sales will be very hard to come buy.

For me the next-gen is like High End PC gaming, DVD-Audio and Laser Discs - a niche market for commited enthusiasts.

Mr Massmarket will stick with his current console for 3 - 4 years.

The situation in Europe is even more conservative, going from 575i PAL to 720p is not the same leap as crappy 480i NTSC. HDTV will struggle to take hold in Europe for a long time. House sizes are much smaller and screen sizes above 32" are rare. HD TV really shines at sizes above 32".

In Japan we have the opposite situation. The next gen is needed more than ever to grow the market. But it is there that the Nintendo Revolution will probably have the greatest disruption effect. The Japanese culture prizes innovation over raw power. Both MS and Sony could find themselves on the receiving end of this paradigm shift.

Very happy to be proved wrong about my assumptions about the adoption of new technology. It will be interesting to look back in 2 years time and see if MS have shifted a significant number of 360s worldwide.

[deathstar121]

It's not if they lose, it's when they lose, I am not too big on 360 after what my friend has told me, I live just outside of NYC and my friend is the biggest xbox F@NB0Y that i know, and he thought 360 sucked, I am gonna go to his house and play the system today should tell you what I think by 10 pm tonite, but if this guy don't like what he saw MS is gonna be screwed big time.