Beyond3D Forum

ERK · 09-Jan-2006, 23:02

I hope so or they are inefficent designs.

Geo · 10-Jan-2006, 01:18

Hexus on a rumor-mongering roll today: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4346

I'm still not believing that XTX clock. I refuse to believe until reviews are posted. Nyah nyah!

tEd · 10-Jan-2006, 01:39

1 week

_xxx_ · 10-Jan-2006, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by geo

I'm still not believing that XTX clock.

Why, what do you expect? It's already very high IMHO.

AlphaWolf · 10-Jan-2006, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_

Why, what do you expect? It's already very high IMHO.

The 3% XTX clock boost over the XT doesn't seem to warrant a new SKU.

_xxx_ · 10-Jan-2006, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf

The 3% XTX clock boost over the XT doesn't seem to warrant a new SKU.

Any additional X or PE or whatever extra letters seem to be enough nowadays, for both vendors

N00b · 10-Jan-2006, 08:48

Quote:

ATi RADEON X1900 XTX 512MB (650MHz VPU / 1550MHz GDDR-3) (AMD A64 FX-57 2.8GHz)
11,149 3DMarks

ATi RADEON X1900 XT 512MB (625MHz VPU / 1450MHz GDDR-3) (AMD A64 FX-57 2.8GHz)
~10,000 3DMarks

1100 3DMarks for a 25Mhz VPU / 100MHz GDDR-3 increase? That's rather unlikely.

AlphaWolf · 10-Jan-2006, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by N00b

1100 3DMarks for a 25Mhz VPU / 100MHz GDDR-3 increase? That's rather unlikely.

Well I'd guess that the 10,000 is low for the XT. Thats ~10% over the x1800xt, I'd expect a bit more of a gap in 3dmark05, but I don't know.

N00b · 10-Jan-2006, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf

Well I'd guess that the 10,000 is low for the XT. Thats ~10% over the x1800xt, I'd expect a bit more of a gap in 3dmark05, but I don't know.

I lack data here, so I won't speculate.
Does anybody know how much more a 7800 scores over a 6800 in 3DMark05 @ same clockspeeds / pipes? That could give an indication what to expect.

_xxx_ · 10-Jan-2006, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by N00b

I lack data here, so I won't speculate.
Does anybody know how much more a 7800 scores over a 6800 in 3DMark05 @ same clockspeeds / pipes? That could give an indication what to expect.

I don't think so since the architectures are different.

N00b · 10-Jan-2006, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_

I don't think so since the architectures are different.

I disagree. Since the primary improvement of the G70 over the NV40 is the added ALU, this might give an indication how 3DMark05 responds to more ALU power. I'm not saying that performance difference between NV40 and G70 can be applied to R520 and R580, but it could give a hint and make an educated guess possible.

_xxx_ · 10-Jan-2006, 10:02

Dunno. NV40 had "1.5" ALU's per pipe, G70 has two. R580 has 3 with unknown capabilities etc., hard to make any parallels there IMHO.

Dave Baumann · 10-Jan-2006, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_

R580 has 3 with unknown capabilities etc.

Unknown? If you can't figure it it then you're not very good at this game!

Ailuros · 10-Jan-2006, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_

Dunno. NV40 had "1.5" ALU's per pipe, G70 has two. R580 has 3 with unknown capabilities etc., hard to make any parallels there IMHO.

I notice the brackets, but there's no half of anything unit. Let's just say that all recent GPUs have one ALU per SIMD channel that's split up into two main subunits, with such and such capabilities; if that should help to make things easier.

N00b · 10-Jan-2006, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_

Dunno. NV40 had "1.5" ALU's per pipe, G70 has two. R580 has 3 with unknown capabilities etc., hard to make any parallels there IMHO.

That's where the "educated" part of educated guess comes in.

I was thinking along the following lines:
- I know how 1800XT scores in 3DMark05. (a)
- I know how 7800GTX 512 scores in 3DMark05. (b)
- I believe that 1900XT = ~ 1800XT + 2 * ALU + some other improvements (c)
- I assume that 3DMark05(1900XT) >= 1.1 * 3DMark05(7800GTX512) (d)
- x = (3DMark05(G70) - 3DMark05(NV40)) / 3DMark05(NV40) (@ same clockspeeds / pipes)

So I assume that
3DMark05(1900XT) = y * 3DMark05(1800XT)
and
y = 1 + z + eg * x
with
z = gain from architectural improvements other than added ALUs
eg = educated guess factor (between 1.0 and 2.0)

(a), (b) and (d) make me assume: z + eg * x >= 0.2

Now let's speculate:
- I speculate that z is in the range 0.0 - 0.1
- I speculate that eg is in the range 0.1 - 0.25

If I had x I could verify some of my assumptions and speculations.

_xxx_ · 10-Jan-2006, 11:00

I know there's no half of anything, but that's the best approximation I could think of

EDIT:
N00b, you just gave me headache

N00b · 10-Jan-2006, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by _xxx_

N00b, you just gave me headache

Sorry!

chavvdarrr · 10-Jan-2006, 12:34

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/125255/000219387.html
10600 in 3dmark05
http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/125255/000219571.html
X1900XTX - 650/750
7900GTX - 750/950 , 8 quads , 24 rops?

Ailuros · 10-Jan-2006, 12:42

Why would the G71 have 24 ROPs?

***edit: not that 8 quads@750MHz makes that much more sense either

N00b · 10-Jan-2006, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by chavvdarrr

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/125255/000219387.html
10600 in 3dmark05
http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/125255/000219571.html
X1900XTX - 650/750
7900GTX - 750/950 , 8 quads , 24 rops?

10600 3DMarks05 @ 1280x1024
11600 3DMarks05 @ 1024x768

Geo · 10-Jan-2006, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tEd

1 week

So you're planting a flag for the 17th instead of the 24th?

chavvdarrr · 10-Jan-2006, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailuros

Why would the G71 have 24 ROPs?

***edit: not that 8 quads@750MHz makes that much more sense either

dunno, in that table there is something thats 16 for X1900 and 24 for 7900 .... my wild guess is thats ROPs, could be anything else... like VS ....

Fodder · 10-Jan-2006, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by chavvdarrr

dunno, in that table there is something thats 16 for X1900 and 24 for 7900 .... my wild guess is thats ROPs, could be anything else... like VS ....

1. PS/TMU, 2. ROPs or ???, 3. VS, 4. ROPs or ???.

fellix · 10-Jan-2006, 13:56

Could be this the R580 general block layout, as if it's a direct RV530 structure scale-up?!

Sunday · 10-Jan-2006, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by chavvdarrr

dunno, in that table there is something thats 16 for X1900 and 24 for 7900 .... my wild guess is thats ROPs, could be anything else... like VS ....

G71 will only be a speed bum up over G70! Thanx to the 90nm tech, this GPU will go around 700 MHz, and in that case, 24 Pixel Pipes (6 quads) will be sufficient! There is no need to go for 32 pipes and larger, more expensive, and ultimately slower core!!

10-Jan-2006, 01:18	#527
Geo Mostly Harmless Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Uffda-land Posts: 9,156	Hexus on a rumor-mongering roll today: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4346 I'm still not believing that XTX clock. I refuse to believe until reviews are posted. Nyah nyah! __________________ "We'll thrash them --absolutely thrash them."--Richard Huddy on Larrabee "Our multi-decade old 3D graphics rendering architecture that's based on a rasterization approach is no longer scalable and suitable for the demands of the future." --Pat Gelsinger, Intel ". . .its taking us longer than we would have liked to get a [Crossfire game] profiling system out there" --Terry Makedon, ATI, July 2006 "Christ, this is Beyond3D; just get rid of any fker talking about patterned chihuahuas! Can the dog write GLSL? No. Then it can fk off." --Da Boss

10-Jan-2006, 01:39	#528
tEd Casual Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,088	1 week __________________ f@h name griswoold

10-Jan-2006, 10:02	#537
_xxx_ Naughty Boy! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 5,008	Dunno. NV40 had "1.5" ALU's per pipe, G70 has two. R580 has 3 with unknown capabilities etc., hard to make any parallels there IMHO. __________________ I have thought some of nature's journeymen had made men, and not made them well, they imitated humanity so abominably.

10-Jan-2006, 11:00	#541
_xxx_ Naughty Boy! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 5,008	I know there's no half of anything, but that's the best approximation I could think of EDIT: N00b, you just gave me headache __________________ I have thought some of nature's journeymen had made men, and not made them well, they imitated humanity so abominably.

10-Jan-2006, 12:34	#543
chavvdarrr Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sofia, BG Posts: 1,136	http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/125255/000219387.html 10600 in 3dmark05 http://www.pcpop.com/doc/App/125255/000219571.html X1900XTX - 650/750 7900GTX - 750/950 , 8 quads , 24 rops? __________________ "There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."

09-Jan-2006, 23:02	#526
ERK Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 287	I hope so or they are inefficent designs.

10-Jan-2006, 12:42	#544
Ailuros Epsilon plus three Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Chania Posts: 7,818	Why would the G71 have 24 ROPs? **edit: not that 8 quads@750MHz makes that much more sense either __________________ People are more violently opposed to fur than leather; because it's easier to harass rich ladies than motorcycle gangs*.

10-Jan-2006, 13:56	#549
fellix Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Varna, Bulgaria Posts: 2,832	Could be this the R580 general block layout, as if it's a direct RV530 structure scale-up?! Last edited by fellix; 10-Jan-2006 at 20:41.

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