[Wunderchu]

Originally Posted by Shao

Hey all, might be old and probably covers old ground, but I think this debate becomes more and more relevant the closer we get to next gen.

In the Japan section of the newest EDGE, one Japanese developer talks about how many of his associates are leaving the games industry altogether. Many others are considering it or fearing the prospect and the common factor is that they simply don't know if they will survive the next-gen. The writer himself speaks about his uncertainty towards his own future, he simply doesn't know if his company will be around after the PS3/X360/Rev era.

With rising costs and demand for amazing graphics next gen, its not going to be acceptable for below-par graphics is it? Will another Katamari convince people to shell out if it doesn't have some decent PS3 visuals? Lets face it, next gen is going to eat away a hell of a lot of finances and there is no way consumers will accept any price hike for a luxury item.

Elsewhere a developer mentions he cannot fund a console project next gen and has to stick with the portables. This is a very precarious position for developers and it has serious repercusions. If a single game can make or break you, you're not going to take risks are you?

I hope the Revolution does what it promises and allows these smaller developers to bring decent games to the system. Maybe even release downloadable only games.

I'm willing to accept 3 times better graphics than Resi 4 or Zelda TW which both look amazing anyway. I would also like to see more use of celshading or even 2D if that would keep costs down. What will be interesting is how the extra power is used to affect gameplay, physics, animation etc, but lets face it, these kind of budgets are going to be hard to come by.....right?

source: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=65056

[BTOA]

Isn't this old? I remember reading something similar to that.

[MoeStooge]

We've come a long way since the heyday of shareware, homebrew software, and one person development teams.

[jvd]

get a middleware engine instead of designing your own engine.

There are dozens of engines out there that they can buy for thier games .

[blakjedi]

Movie prices doubled in the last ten years and so did the cost of making movies... What is interesting is that except for the odd LOTR, most of the good movies dont cost that much...

[ERP]

Originally Posted by jvd

get a middleware engine instead of designing your own engine.

There are dozens of engines out there that they can buy for thier games .

The issue isn't really the tech.... Or even the content....

It's getting funding, If publishers believe you need X people to make a next gen game in Y months an you have X/3 people in your team your going to find it very hard to get funding for your project. And often if X is large you can't afford to proceed through development because publishers rear load payments.

[fearsomepirate]

Originally Posted by jvd

get a middleware engine instead of designing your own engine.

There are dozens of engines out there that they can buy for thier games .

So who makes the scores upon scores of hi-res textures? Who's going to animate all the character models to make sure they're sufficiently life-like? Who's going to write the story? Who's going to design and plan all the events throughout the game so that the game feels alive and exciting, yet doesn't feel linear and contrived? Who's going to record the hours and hours of voice?

That's where the budget concerns are coming from, not just programming new graphics engines. The days of ihawking graphics engine tech demos as full games are apparently behind us, or something.

[jvd]

fearsome.


When you get an engine you save alot of time , you can start from the begning doing the art and animations . Getting rid of an engine and tool design from the equation should decrease development time.


Making new textures and characters of high lvls will take alot of time and that wont change. The best bet is to reduce costs where you can .

[fearsomepirate]

Originally Posted by jvd

fearsome.


When you get an engine you save alot of time , you can start from the begning doing the art and animations . Getting rid of an engine and tool design from the equation should decrease development time.


Making new textures and characters of high lvls will take alot of time and that wont change. The best bet is to reduce costs where you can .

You know that over 25% of games this generation are using Renderware, right? It's not like developers aren't already licensing engines and Epic has just now thought up the idea, so now all they need to do is get on board. If that was the solution to the problem, then they wouldn't be worried, because they solved that problem 10 years ago.

[iknowall]

Originally Posted by blakjedi

Movie prices doubled in the last ten years and so did the cost of making movies... What is interesting is that except for the odd LOTR, most of the good movies dont cost that much...

Movie quality have little to do with budget. It have to do to the artisting talent of who make it.
Also it not true the price of makeing movie went down a lot thanks to the introduction of the digital hd cameras.

[Inane_Dork]

I don't really see the problem with going to portable/DL game development. I think it's great that we have something like that for developers to move to.

On the whole, I think the game development/publishing industry has to figure out how to make games profitable regardless of the cost. The current system is geared towards producing summer blockbusters year round, which is screwy. Online distribution seems to be the best solution here since much of the current system doesn't scale with development cost.

[expletive]

The author mentions something about nintendo doing something for lower cost games. Is this the same thing as XBL Arcade? If not, how is it different?

[Alpha_Spartan]

Multiplatform mofos. That solves that.

[Alpha_Spartan]

Originally Posted by blakjedi

Movie prices doubled in the last ten years and so did the cost of making movies... What is interesting is that except for the odd LOTR, most of the good movies dont cost that much...

A tale of two different markets. The movie audience is much larger than gaming audiences. A niche movie can send a producer singing to the bank but a niche game will send a developer out of business.

I think the insane expectations for PS3 and Xbox 360 games will have a negative effect on a lot of developers. Look at Madden 2006. It looks leagues better than the current gen, but somehow it's not enough in most circles. Some people are still waiting for the "real" version of Madden, Madden 2007, to show up on the PS3 next fall.

I'd pay any price of admission just to see the looks on these folks faces when it ends up being much of the same or negligibly better.

[Boke]

In the case of Madden and many of the other next gen titles, the developers are almost completely at fault for the high expectations. They allude far to often that the offline rendered concept trailers are what we are going to see in the final product. What do they expect people to do when they finally see the real thing?.. Of course they are going to be disappointed.

This has irritated me since day one in the video games industry. If your going to show me a game I want to see it. Not some rendered concept sequence. TV spots are the worst, 28 seconds of concept 2 of game-play(if your lucky).

[iknowall]

Originally Posted by Boke

In the case of Madden and many of the other next gen titles, the developers are almost completely at fault for the high expectations. They allude far to often that the offline rendered concept trailers are what we are going to see in the final product. What do they expect people to do when they finally see the real thing?.. Of course they are going to be disappointed.

This has irritated me since day one in the video games industry. If your going to show me a game I want to see it. Not some rendered concept sequence. TV spots are the worst, 28 seconds of concept 2 of game-play(if your lucky).

Actyally madden delivered graphically all the expectation. It is a full next gen visual game.

Just watch the 720p trailer to see how good it look

http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/xbox-...06-HD-Trailer/

[Boke]

Oh I agree, It looks great to me.
But the early shots had a much different "feel" to them and I think is the reason many people are disappointed. Look at the first 5 pics here-> LINK

[DudeMiester]

If they did NPR, then I'm sure they can use all that horse-power, look amazing and get it done for cheap. For example, try a real anime style game. I mean many anime's are done in 3D, then run through a complex toon shader, and there is no shortage of anime, lol! Port those techniques to the consoles, and see what happens.

[Synergy34]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Spartan

Look at Madden 2006. It looks leagues better than the current gen, but somehow it's not enough in most circles. Some people are still waiting for the "real" version of Madden, Madden 2007, to show up on the PS3 next fall.

Guilty as charged.

However I think Madden looks great, it's just the lack of an animation/physic upgrade that i am disappointed with. Sure, they added new animations but they still look stiff and unatural. I can't say for certain but I'm betting that you will still bounce off a ball carrier if he is in the middle of an animation while being hit by another player. That HAS to go this gen.

And Madden 2007 will be the real version of the game, for BOTH consoles, not sure why you would think other wise. 06 is lacking in features. Think about it. EA is most certainly developing 07 right now and probably started it months ago. It will have the mini-games they left out and a better owner mode as well.

[dukmahsik]

thus XNA thus MS making it cheapest as possible to dev for the 360

[Lord Darkblade]

I for one would like to see 2D (or perhaps 3D in a 2D style) games come back. Things like Castlevania Symphony of the Night are still awesome games, why should we not get things like this now, upgrade the graphics a little but focus on the gameplay!

[see colon]

Originally Posted by fearsomepirate

You know that over 25% of games this generation are using Renderware, right? It's not like developers aren't already licensing engines and Epic has just now thought up the idea, so now all they need to do is get on board. If that was the solution to the problem, then they wouldn't be worried, because they solved that problem 10 years ago.

epic just now thought up the idea? there are dozens of games that run on the unreal engine this generation, including high profile games like the splinter cell series, star wars republic commando, deus ex (1&2), and rainbow 6, along with smaller titles like land of the dead, dead mans hand, XIII, and rune. unreal engine games have apperaed on every home console since (and including) the dreamcast.

art assets can be licensed as well. there are texture libraries and stock models for sale.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by see colon

art assets can be licensed as well. there are texture libraries and stock models for sale.

Is there much market for stock models outside of medieval RPGs? I'd have thought car and people models would be more needed.

[jvd]

Originally Posted by expletive

The author mentions something about nintendo doing something for lower cost games. Is this the same thing as XBL Arcade? If not, how is it different?

Well the rev should have an itunes type system from most reports .



The major problem with the industry is old games. You make games each generation and if your lucky you can port it to a portable and thats about it .

With the rev every game on every nintendo system can easily be offered by the developer or publisher through this download service . This is fast cash for a developer . There is basicly no work done from them and even at a 1$ if nintendo takes a quarter for it that is still 75cents per download that they are making for a game that has sit in thier vault for a couple decades now


Portables like the gba has made a sucess of this even while at full retail price (30ish)

Of course those were nes and supernes games .

The ds now offers a platform for the psone , saturn and n64 era games to get ported to and of course the psp offers a good platform for playstation 2 games .


Of course the rev will use emulation which is much easier and cheaper than porting to another system years after the original product was done.


The costs should also be low so alot f people will buy the system for the classics they grew up with .

[expletive]

Originally Posted by jvd

Well the rev should have an itunes type system from most reports .



The major problem with the industry is old games. You make games each generation and if your lucky you can port it to a portable and thats about it .

With the rev every game on every nintendo system can easily be offered by the developer or publisher through this download service . This is fast cash for a developer . There is basicly no work done from them and even at a 1$ if nintendo takes a quarter for it that is still 75cents per download that they are making for a game that has sit in thier vault for a couple decades now


Portables like the gba has made a sucess of this even while at full retail price (30ish)

Of course those were nes and supernes games .

The ds now offers a platform for the psone , saturn and n64 era games to get ported to and of course the psp offers a good platform for playstation 2 games .


Of course the rev will use emulation which is much easier and cheaper than porting to another system years after the original product was done.


The costs should also be low so alot f people will buy the system for the classics they grew up with .

HOw is this different from XBL arcade? Last i heard games on XBL were from $5-$15, is it the price range different?