Beyond3D Forum

Alpha_Spartan · 21-Oct-2005, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Why would wanting an audio codec from MS require divulging PS3's launch price to them?

Well, I think it also mentioned MS getting royalties. To discuss royalties, I guess MS needs to know the price of the hardware to set a percentage or what not.

If MS knows the PS3 price and as bad as MS is when it comes to leaks, this wouldn't surprise me. Like 95% of Xbox related rumors turned out to be true. So if MS knows about the PS3 then there's a huge change that there have already been leaks or that leaks are inevitable.

london-boy · 21-Oct-2005, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha_Spartan

Well, I think it also mentioned MS getting royalties. To discuss royalties, I guess MS needs to know the price of the hardware to set a percentage or what not.

If MS knows the PS3 price and as bad as MS is when it comes to leaks, this wouldn't surprise me. Like 95% of Xbox related rumors turned out to be true. So if MS knows about the PS3 then there's a huge change that there have already been leaks or that leaks are inevitable.

Besides, if MS came out saying "PS3 will be $500!!!", (1) who would believe them?, (2) who wouldn't laugh at the complete unprofessionalism? (3) who would care?

Same thing, if there is a "leak", look how long "leaks" are believed for... All this talk of leaks lately have had an effect on my diuretic system.

wco81 · 21-Oct-2005, 16:41

Sony has a rough history with audio codecs.

ATRAC anyone?

They've only supported MP3 in the past year.

At least they're supporting AAC fairly early.

Now, I've heard MS is virtually giving away its codecs. That might explain the ubiquity of WMA.

Supposedly WMV/VC-1 is cheaper than MPEG2 or H.264.

Xenus · 21-Oct-2005, 16:59

It would be funny if this was true and they made more money off oh licensing an audio codec then they made off the Xbox360. Though that is about as probable as a hell freezing over.

Shifty Geezer · 21-Oct-2005, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha_Spartan

Well, I think it also mentioned MS getting royalties. To discuss royalties, I guess MS needs to know the price of the hardware to set a percentage or what not.

I don't think so. A software codec license isn't going to be n% of total earnings or anything of the like. It'll be a flat fee per console/game/disc in all likelihood. And it's a software soltion presumably sot he hardware is irrelevant. The license will cover whatever the software the codec is included with. MS would be stupid to take $1 per PS3 sold if they can take 50 cents per disc sold!

c0_re · 21-Oct-2005, 17:03

This is BS it would be suicide to launch at that price, Sony isn't stupid.

sonny · 21-Oct-2005, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by pakpassion

[url]3) It seems MS knows the price of Sony but is not disclosing for NDA purposes.

Translation error. The source didn't say that.

scooby_dooby · 21-Oct-2005, 17:48

there's no way Sony would be dumb enough to do that. $600? No way. lol, that would be like $750 in Canada, those babies would not be selling at that price, no way no how...

Edge · 21-Oct-2005, 18:08

I always thought Europe paid more for consumer electronics, and is not the VAT included in the price?

It would not be $600 US, and doubt it would be anything near that. It would be at most $400 US, and not a penny more. They can't charge more than the competition unless the perceived value of getting a Blu-ray player was worth the additional cost.

Mefisutoferesu · 21-Oct-2005, 18:21

What about the vorbis libraries? Flac, Ogg, ad such? They should be free to support and they're a heck of a lot better than wma, IMO. I would imagine the fact that Sony's going the Linux route would add to the appeal.

mckmas8808 · 21-Oct-2005, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

there's no way Sony would be dumb enough to do that. $600? No way. lol, that would be like $750 in Canada, those babies would not be selling at that price, no way no how...

QFT.

valioso · 21-Oct-2005, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

there's no way Sony would be dumb enough to do that. $600? No way. lol, that would be like $750 in Canada, those babies would not be selling at that price, no way no how...

I dont think so either.. but Mr. Kutaragi has brought up plenty of times how the PS3 is going to be more expensive..

scooby_dooby · 21-Oct-2005, 19:01

Just Sony hype, hey ALWAYS do this, probably did it to fuck with MS's head too...anyways you slice it they gotta hit $400USD.

valioso · 21-Oct-2005, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

Just Sony hype, hey ALWAYS do this, probably did it to fuck with MS's head too...anyways you slice it they gotta hit $400USD.

I would think so, would that be the core.. or the hard drive version..

avaya · 21-Oct-2005, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by valioso

I dont think so either.. but Mr. Kutaragi has brought up plenty of times how the PS3 is going to be more expensive..

Most of the direct quotes were a "lost in translation", pulled from the PS Meeting in Tokyo where he was joking with press.

US price will likely be $400, the European price could well be around 500 Euros.

Shifty Geezer · 21-Oct-2005, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefisutoferesu

What about the vorbis libraries? Flac, Ogg, ad such? They should be free to support and they're a heck of a lot better than wma, IMO. I would imagine the fact that Sony's going the Linux route would add to the appeal.

I know OGG is larger on averge than MP3 for better quality. I don't know how well WMA handles higher compression versus OGG, and if it's better then where memory-footprint is important the highest compression-ratio:Audio-quality is important. But I can't see .wma having a huge advantage if any there. Normally isn't most in game audio just uncompressed 16 bit samples anyway? Considering the other routes taken by Sony, OpenGL (at least, that's what the official press releases say even if nAo knows nothing about this

) and Linux, a free open codec sounds more in keeping with Sony's current solutions.

Unless it's to support content over the 'net?

SirTendeth · 21-Oct-2005, 20:13

With the 360 being the first out of the gate, and unlike the dreamcast, Sony knows it will actually have a decent amount of market penetration.

So having access to a codec allows 360 titles to be brought over to the PS3 more readily. This has even more significance now that Microsoft has used 3-6 month limited exclusives so heavily last gen.

The benefit to Sony could would be a good codec at a decent price. With a significant advantage in recieving ports from the 360.

Cobra101 · 21-Oct-2005, 20:51

I will pay 500 bucks in a heart beat for a PS3.

But I am probably in the minority.

Mefisutoferesu · 21-Oct-2005, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

I know OGG is larger on averge than MP3 for better quality. I don't know how well WMA handles higher compression versus OGG, and if it's better then where memory-footprint is important the highest compression-ratio:Audio-quality is important. But I can't see .wma having a huge advantage if any there. Normally isn't most in game audio just uncompressed 16 bit samples anyway? Considering the other routes taken by Sony, OpenGL (at least, that's what the official press releases say even if nAo knows nothing about this

) and Linux, a free open codec sounds more in keeping with Sony's current solutions.

Unless it's to support content over the 'net?

I've been under the impression that OGG has the better compression and fidelity. 128kbps OGG is comparable to 192kbps MP3. That's what I've read, and there's definately a dicernable difference in quality (favoring OGG) by my ears. Not saying you're wrong, Shifty, it's just that's how it seems to me, obviously I'm no audio expert though.

Alpha_Spartan · 21-Oct-2005, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra101

I will pay 500 bucks in a heart beat for a PS3.

But I am probably in the minority.

Most definately. Everyone knew the Neo Geo was the shit back in the day, but SNES and Genesis still sold like gangbusters.

Johnny_Physics · 21-Oct-2005, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

there's no way Sony would be dumb enough to do that. $600? No way. lol, that would be like $750 in Canada, those babies would not be selling at that price, no way no how...

That price seems reasonable enough... for us in Sweden

Perhaps the rumour/leak talks about the price at the european launch? If it cost $600 it would actually cost less than the PS2 when it launched over here.

SirTendeth · 21-Oct-2005, 22:28

How does the price compare to the 360, in each config, and in each region?

I am curious at what price difference you would get a 360 instead? Because it's possible that by the time it's released in Europe, the 360 may have been out over a year and have seen a price drop.

I realize that for some you that the PS3 is the only thing you want, and that’s cool.

Shifty Geezer · 21-Oct-2005, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefisutoferesu

I've been under the impression that OGG has the better compression and fidelity. 128kbps OGG is comparable to 192kbps MP3. That's what I've read, and there's definately a dicernable difference in quality (favoring OGG) by my ears. Not saying you're wrong, Shifty, it's just that's how it seems to me, obviously I'm no audio expert though.

I've read on audio forums that Ogg is better fideilty but slightly larger. I know on my experiments a 128kbps MP3 was smaller than the Ogg. But for me the sound quality is much better. It may be a case that for smaller files MP3 goes smaller, but in higher quality Ogg is better?

MrWibble · 21-Oct-2005, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Normally isn't most in game audio just uncompressed 16 bit samples anyway?

Just a quick comment on this point...

No, it wouldn't generally be the done thing to use uncompressed audio, certainly on console. Most hardware can do better than that.

For example on PS2, ADPCM is the norm. In fact the hardware prefers this over uncompressed data for performing quite a lot of fairly standard operations.

With games including increasingly vast sound tracks, hours of spoken audio and hi quality multi-channel sfx it all adds up to a lot of disk space and a lot of memory, so compression is pretty important.

Shifty Geezer · 21-Oct-2005, 22:54

On disc compression makes sense not least for faster transfer rates, but I thought audio in mem was uncompressed. Or rather, not heavily compressed with lossy formats because the decompression would each too heavily into processor cycles.

21-Oct-2005, 18:08	#34
Edge Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 613	I always thought Europe paid more for consumer electronics, and is not the VAT included in the price? It would not be $600 US, and doubt it would be anything near that. It would be at most $400 US, and not a penny more. They can't charge more than the competition unless the perceived value of getting a Blu-ray player was worth the additional cost. __________________ SN Systems (Middleware): "Since these different parts (SPEs) can all access their own memory at full speed simultaneously, it should give the PS3 a significant performance advantage." Edge Magazine August 2005 issue

21-Oct-2005, 22:28	#47
SirTendeth Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 64	How does the price compare to the 360, in each config, and in each region? I am curious at what price difference you would get a 360 instead? Because it's possible that by the time it's released in Europe, the 360 may have been out over a year and have seen a price drop. I realize that for some you that the PS3 is the only thing you want, and that’s cool. Last edited by SirTendeth; 21-Oct-2005 at 22:30.

21-Oct-2005, 22:54	#50
Shifty Geezer Grumpy Mod Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a pretty pink padded cell Posts: 26,029	On disc compression makes sense not least for faster transfer rates, but I thought audio in mem was uncompressed. Or rather, not heavily compressed with lossy formats because the decompression would each too heavily into processor cycles. __________________ Shifty Geezer ... Tolerance for internet moronism is exhausted. Anyone talking about people's attitudes in the Console fora, rather than games and technology, will feel my wrath. Read the FAQ to remind yourself how to behave and avoid unsightly incidents.

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21-Oct-2005, 16:41	#28
wco81 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Coast Posts: 4,299	Sony has a rough history with audio codecs. ATRAC anyone? They've only supported MP3 in the past year. At least they're supporting AAC fairly early. Now, I've heard MS is virtually giving away its codecs. That might explain the ubiquity of WMA. Supposedly WMV/VC-1 is cheaper than MPEG2 or H.264.

21-Oct-2005, 16:59	#29
Xenus Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,207	It would be funny if this was true and they made more money off oh licensing an audio codec then they made off the Xbox360. Though that is about as probable as a hell freezing over.

21-Oct-2005, 17:03	#31
c0_re Naughty Boy! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 468	This is BS it would be suicide to launch at that price, Sony isn't stupid.

21-Oct-2005, 17:48	#33
scooby_dooby Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: E-town, Alberta Posts: 8,390	there's no way Sony would be dumb enough to do that. $600? No way. lol, that would be like $750 in Canada, those babies would not be selling at that price, no way no how...

21-Oct-2005, 18:21	#35
Mefisutoferesu Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 717	What about the vorbis libraries? Flac, Ogg, ad such? They should be free to support and they're a heck of a lot better than wma, IMO. I would imagine the fact that Sony's going the Linux route would add to the appeal.

21-Oct-2005, 19:01	#38
scooby_dooby Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: E-town, Alberta Posts: 8,390	Just Sony hype, hey ALWAYS do this, probably did it to fuck with MS's head too...anyways you slice it they gotta hit $400USD.

21-Oct-2005, 20:13	#42
SirTendeth Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 64	With the 360 being the first out of the gate, and unlike the dreamcast, Sony knows it will actually have a decent amount of market penetration. So having access to a codec allows 360 titles to be brought over to the PS3 more readily. This has even more significance now that Microsoft has used 3-6 month limited exclusives so heavily last gen. The benefit to Sony could would be a good codec at a decent price. With a significant advantage in recieving ports from the 360.

21-Oct-2005, 20:51	#43
Cobra101 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 152	I will pay 500 bucks in a heart beat for a PS3. But I am probably in the minority.

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