[rabidrabbit]

Originally Posted by Acert93

Browsing back through your MGS4 posts it would seem you would indeed need to argue that that, too, was prerendered. Yet it is clear you consider it realtime, inengine.

I don't remember you calling that prerendered.

I quess the line in my mind blurred the moment someone compared the ATi Ruby demo with MGS4 trailer.
Until then I don't think I would have said "game engine rendered" footage could be called "prerendered", but as something that was done with an engine solely designed for outputting some art assets and predefined animation routines realtime to a screen in front of you was suddenly totally comparable to something that was done with an engine that was supposedly designed to handle physics, ai and user interaction at the same time as the pretty graphics... I just lost it.
"Prerendered" - Does it have to render 1 frame in ten minutes, just to be qualified to be called prerendered. If similar results are rendered to screen 30 frames per second, it's not prerendered any more, even if the rendering procedure was the same as when doing it in 1fp10min, only faster??
Yep, I'm just confused (and I have a flu plus some fever so I'm probabply not making much sense)... don't mind me

[c0_re]

I said it b4 I'll ay it again, I'll be dammed impressed if it looks this good when everything is said and done.

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by Inane_Dork

Oh my gosh...
Did you mean "sweet"?

SUPERMEGALOL!

[BlueTsunami]

Originally Posted by Acert93

Being sick my sweat wife made me some nice homemade chicken noodle soup. She is by far the sweatest thing I get to sample

One time is "Ok, typo" two times is "OMGWTF!!". I can certainly say I laughed hard. Also, mixing sweat / sweet is easy thing to do...but "sweatest / sweetest" is laugh worthy.

[london-boy]

mmm sweaty wives...

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by rabidrabbit

I quess the line in my mind blurred the moment someone compared the ATi Ruby demo with MGS4 trailer.

The truth comes out...

This is not about *defined* terms (gameplay, cutscene, ingame camera, realtime, prerendered, rendered to spec, etc); THIS is about how some of us took issue with calling MGS4 "gameplay" when it was a cutscene. Never mind we said the RENDERING was amazing.

The sad part is you obivously are blurring the technical terms--for your bias and bent--instead of argueing the merits of the discussion. Nope, lets just start change the meaning of words like "prerendered" because someone make an unfavorable comparison to my favorite machine.

As for Ruby and MGS4: They are both are

• realtime graphics engines
• using streamed animation.

The game backend--physics, AI, etc... are ran on the CPU--NOT the GPU. Unless the CPU in either case is taxed heavily for graphical tasks then they are comparable. And as far as we know, the MGS4 shots could be the realtime cut engine--not the game engine.

I don't believe this ONE BIT--but that is EXACTLY what YOU are suggesting for NBA2K6. It goes both ways--I just prefer not to pull stuff out of thin air.

Also, a Hint: Ruby was designed for, and runs well, on a x86 system. Based on the arguements in these forums an x86 processor does NOT have the Floating Point power to assist the GPU with these rendering techniques in Ruby anyhow.

So it is hard to believe that an application designed for an x86 processor ported to the Xbox 360 would be extensively--or effeciently--using the CPU to begin with. ATI got the Ruby demo running in 2 weeks at 30fps. EVERYTHING we know about the x86 to Xenon process indicates that a CPU dependant applications is going to CHOKE on the Xbox 360 and need to be optimized and reprogrammed.

So it is pretty clear Ruby is NOT a CPU intensive task... it is a GPU demo for crying out loud.

Anyhow, the Ruby/MGS4 is no excuse for blatantly misusing rendering terms AND making false statements that the media has defuncted.

Until then I don't think I would have said "game engine rendered" footage could be called "prerendered"

Nice to see you know the difference. So all this counter argueing is ..... what then???

Which brings us back to the original point: You are calling something REAL TIME, as verified by two Media sources, just to CAUSE A STIR.

This Sony fan bash MS <==> MS fan bash Sony trend is getting OLD. You know what you are talking about and have no basis for what you have said.

but as something that was done with an engine solely designed for outputting some art assets and predefined animation routines realtime to a screen in front of you was suddenly totally comparable to something that was done with an engine that was supposedly designed to handle physics, ai and user interaction at the same time as the pretty graphics... I just lost it.

Thanks for admitting your motives.

Thankfully they are 2 totally different scenarios and a different debate as already explained.

It is plainly clear you have no interest in honest discussion.

"Prerendered" - Does it have to render 1 frame in ten minutes, just to be qualified to be called prerendered. If similar results are rendered to screen 30 frames per second, it's not prerendered any more, even if the rendering procedure was the same as when doing it in 1fp10min, only faster??

You obviously don't understand what prerendered... oh wait, you admitted you do understand.

Now you are just playing word games to get out of admitting your motives, which you already disclosed.

• 1 frame per 10 minutes is prerendered by definition. It is not realtime--regardless if it looks like a realtime engine. You had to render each frame individually, compress them into a video stream, and then play them back. They are not realtime, they are not interactive, and they do not demonstrate gameplay. Gameplay may look like it, but that is irrelevant.

• 30fps in realtime is by definition realtime and NOT prerendered.

And if you still have caught on: NBA2K6 is done in realtime; further the footage is gameplay footage--NOT pre-canned animation from a cutscene.

I am amazed that you can struggle with such a basic concept yet want to level criticism at me for the suggestion that comparing graphical cinematic trailers is more favorable than comparing cutscene to actual gameplay.

Not that there is no room for discussion on that subject, only that if you cannot grasp a simple concept of "prerendered vs. realtime" you are going to struggle even more in a discussion relating to much more advanced topics.

What is sounds like to me is someone is upset about another subject and interjecting that negativity into this thread, and even worse doing so by intentionally misusing technical terms and blatantly IGNORING first hand information so they can continue their crusade.

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by BlueTsunami

One time is "Ok, typo" two times is "OMGWTF!!". I can certainly say I laughed hard. Also, mixing sweat / sweet is easy thing to do...but "sweatest / sweetest" is laugh worthy.

Fruedian slip

Honestly, I failed spelling as a child... I just caught onto the "i before e" thing last week. Having taught myself 2 other languages I must say this in my defense: English sucks for spelling. Most languages, be it Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, French, etc... are pretty straight forward!

Memorizing useless letter combinations... meh. At least I get about 95% of them right. That is a passing grade, right?

[mckmas8808]

Originally Posted by Acert93

She is by far the sweatest thing I get to sample...

Ahhhhhh.

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by mckmas8808

Ahhhhhh.

WTH am I doing here argueing in this pool of mud throwing when I can be spending time with her?!

Since it seems the mods are gone (dead? vacation? enjoying their free R520s?!) and people are not interested in talking about these subjects honestly--even if their POV is different--I should go spend the rest of my sick day coughing on her instead of coughing on the screen slapping my head.

Adios guys. Hope you enjoy the X05 footage.

Ps- Yes, it is all prerendered. MS is secretly shipping the long lost SNES Super CD. All the footage is really just gonna be streamed Sorry I held this secret in so long. No go tell the world before anyone buys an Xbox 360!

[czekon]

maybe you relax little watching a brand new NBA2k6 trailer on xboxyde enjoy

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2069_en.html

just love GFX

[mckmas8808]

Originally Posted by Acert93

WTH am I doing here argueing in this pool of mud throwing when I can be spending time with her?!

Since it seems the mods are gone (dead? vacation? enjoying their free R520s?!) and people are not interested in talking about these subjects honestly--even if their POV is different--I should go spend the rest of my sick day coughing on her instead of coughing on the screen slapping my head.

Hey Acert you know I was kidding right?

[pipo]

And a new HD clip: *edit* posted two posts up...

[rabidrabbit]

Sorry Acert, I admit I went too far with the "semantics" and I admit I was (am?) bordering trolling.
But it just irks me so when people call something "gameplay" when clearly it is replay or some other footage, no matter if it's done with game engine or not.
I might be wrong again, but hasn't "ingame" always meant the same as "gameplay", although this has been blurred lately too because of "ingame cinematics" done with game engine.

It is understandable devs like to start calling replays "gameplay", also it's understandable in marketing pov. Replays usually look more interesting than gameplay.

Do you think we should accept that? Blur the lines between gameplay and replay?
I don't think so, that was the main point in my nitpicking in the word "prerendered" to make the point that we should keep it the way it's been, gameplay is gameplay... replay is replay. They might use the same graphics engine but it's not the same as gameplay, that's a fact that I can't see anyone arguing.
Nobody said the MGS4 footage was "gameplay", it was agreed to be "cinematics".

Btw, You said I wasn't critisizing MGS4 in the MGS4 threads as I'm critisizing now... but it's a different thread, with different points presented by different people, you can't compare what I've had to say in some other thread to what I have to say now. This is a different discussion. MGS4 was clearly said to be cinematics done with game engine, and that was easy to believe when considering the previous MGS games and what Kójima had done with their trailers, there was little to argue about that, that's why there was no need to go say "no the mgs4 is not ingame!!! it is prerendered replay cinematics!!!" (which imo they are "prerendered ingame, game-engine cinematics")

Ok, I'm done with this now.

To sum it.
I think the NBA2K6 footage is replay footage, NOT gameplay or "ingame" as was said.
NBA2K6 gameplay will probably use the same models and engine as the replay footage, that's why it'll have the same overall quality as the replays, only you won't be seeing the models so close up, so you woun't be seeing as much detail as in these shots and footage (I'd guess much of the sweet (or is it sweat ) effect would go to waste in gameplay, whereas in replays it'll look nice.
That's my point, if ever I had a point or am I just trolling me Sony funboy!!

[mckmas8808]

Oh No a new NBA Live video! 2K6 has some competition now.

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1997

[blakjedi]

mckmass good find! The character models are top notch, the animation on the whole appears slightly better than 2k6, didnt notice the physics though to do any comparisons. The stadium is pretty good in that the reflections and lighting are right and the backboards and benchs have the same quality as the other interactive compenents of the court.

The only gripe I have is... wassup with EA and their "uncanny valley" approach? Tim Duncan looks like a zombie toward the end of the clip...

EDIT: Aha! The characters never blink and hold the exact same "face" at all times... if they fix that it'll be and A+ game visually.

[one]

Originally Posted by rabidrabbit

It is understandable devs like to start calling replays "gameplay", also it's understandable in marketing pov. Replays usually look more interesting than gameplay.

QFT. Sports games, race games, I've never seen real gameplay looks better than replay scenes. You may call it HUD craziness, but if you intend to evaluate hardware on which games are running on, it's a necessary viewpoint. What's fun or not is subjective as good music is still good with low sound fidelity and confusing it with hardware evaluation is the source of trouble.