[Carl B]

I think the Linux might have appeal beyond techies actually if the UI is done right. I can really see a fully-rendered 3D interface with things zooming in and out of the distance and blah blah blah...

Shouldn't be difficult for Cell to pull off in terms of overhead whatsoever, seems in line with my vision of what 'Minority Report' means, and should look awesome as hell if that's the route they take. Sometimes the general population will put functionality aside and just roll with it if somethign is just out and out 'neat' enough.

[DudeMiester]

Hopefully they open the hardware architecture too. Although I don't expect them to do that until they sell their fair share of PS3's lol.

[Carl B]

Originally Posted by DudeMiester

Hopefully they open the hardware architecture too. Although I don't expect them to do that until they sell their fair share of PS3's lol.

I might be crazy, but isn't that exactly what is happening later today?

[Npl]

Originally Posted by one

K: We don't put an HDD in default.

Originally Posted by one

So, I think we'll put Linux (on an HDD) from the beginning... as a bonus. To file it as a computer.

Soo.. they wont ship with an HDD, but a Linux+HDD Bundle will be available right from the start ? ( or am I interpreting that wrong )

If you can code for Linux you can code Games, if you distribute them or even sell them, Sony earn no money for the games - Whats actually stopping Game-companies to do just that ?
If some company sells Apps for PS3-Linux, does it need to pay Licenses too?
If youre not allowed to sell Programs for PS3-Linux, this will kick out alot of professional Coders.

Well,m I guess there will be dozens of Contracts you have to accept upon installing PS3-Linux

As much as I would like to code on the PS3, I believe it could open the box of pandora for Sony, if you can run code without trouble, thats half the work for getting backups to run( not saying it would be easy though) and they are gonna get some serious licensing trouble ( and if its only the lawyers needed to shutdown abuse ).

[Carl B]

Cell's supposedly the absolute ultimate in DRM though, so maybe they're that confident on the subject.

[ShootMyMonkey]

Cell's supposedly the absolute ultimate in DRM though

Meaning it might take as much as 3 or 4 days for some pimple-faced European teenager to break all the protection it has to offer.

[Npl]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

Cell's supposedly the absolute ultimate in DRM though, so maybe they're that confident on the subject.

DRM aint helping when you can develop yourself ( ie compile and run). In the worst case, distribute sources so anyone can compile himself (not that uncommon in Linux)

The only thing I could imagine is that I have to get a Certificate to be able to sign my own compiles to be able to run them, and when I did something nasty Sony will withdraw it. Thats would mean you would have to be connected to the Internet to run non-Sony Stuff.
And it would also wont stop someone else from getting my programm and sign it with his own Cert.

[Carl B]

Well my reference to the DRM wasn't meant to preclude one from compiling or running their own stuff (or even custom apps), I was just bringing it up as a possible line of defense against people illegally running games of their hard drive or something.

Oh well in the end it doesn't matter - if they do indeed ship 'Linux for Cell' on the hard drives, then I give them much respect for that. They'll end up dealign with some headaches down the line due to the decision I have no doubt, but still how can I deny the novelty of it all?

[mckmas8808]

I think what Sony has in store for us is bigger than anyone could imagine. And he is right people are doing alot of big things on the PSP today so what can you say. If the same can be true with the PS3 then how can anyone complain.

And did I understand correctly that Tiger, Linux, or Windows will be able to run on the PS3? And even more interesting at the same time. I don't know if Sony can pull this off this will be the biggest thing ever to hit the video game sector in history.

[PC-Engine]

And did I understand correctly that Tiger, Linux, or Windows will be able to run on the PS3?

Who's going to make Windows and Tiger run on PS3? Game developers?

Please get a clue...

[Npl]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

Well my reference to the DRM wasn't meant to preclude one from compiling or running their own stuff (or even custom apps), I was just bringing it up as a possible line of defense against people illegally running games of their hard drive or something.

If you can run unsigned Code in Linux or sign executables yourself, the matter of breaking Protection is
1) decrypt signed Files of the Game (the right key & algorithm has to be stored inside the PS3).
2) patch game to boot from Linux

Without Linux you`d have the PS3 refusing to execute unsigned Binaries, with the key locked away unreachable at a Computer from Sony ( like its the case with PSP ). Thats a million time harder to break that 1&2

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

Oh well in the end it doesn't matter - if they do indeed ship 'Linux for Cell' on the hard drives, then I give them much respect for that. They'll end up dealign with some headaches down the line due to the decision I have no doubt, but still how can I deny the novelty of it all?

I`d be all over it 8) . But I dont see a bright future if Sony goes bancrupt in the process.

[Alpha_Spartan]

Originally Posted by pipo

Of course. It can't do any harm...

Meanwhile, dropping the HDD from the default config isn't a smart move in my book. I can see where they're coming from cost-wise, but a lot of devco's are not going to be happy about that.

Dropping the hard drive whilst keeping optional stuff like a built-in GigaE switch, card slots and all those HD inputs seems kinda backwards.

[Shifty Geezer]

As I suggested before, if all PS3 content has to go through a Sony access portal, homebrew will enable anyone to create games, sell games, and Sony still get a cut. It'd be ideal.

As for Cell being no good for PC work, what work won't it be good for for the average Joe? I wordprocess, do digital image work, listen to music and video clips and surf the web. Cell can easily manage all these. From the Apple article (they tested Cell) they suggested the reason for not using Cell is because the programs would all need to be rewritten, as running existing code falls over due to lack of OOO features. Apple can't use Cell because old code won't run, not because it can't run a wordprocessor or art package or web browser.

Linux on PS3 could be a very capable platform and if Sony work it right, I could well see it becoming the spiritual successor to the Amiga (as long as they get a good, user friendly interface!)

[Titanio]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Spartan

Dropping the hard drive whilst keeping optional stuff like a built-in GigaE switch, card slots and all those HD inputs seems kinda backwards.

That "optional" stuff doesn't add up to the cost of the HDD, unfortunately. And some of it is arguably as optional as a HD..

[jvd]

As I suggested before, if all PS3 content has to go through a Sony access portal, homebrew will enable anyone to create games, sell games, and Sony still get a cut. It'd be ideal.

Sounds just like xbox market place

[Kolgar]

Originally Posted by Confidence-Man

Square in particular.

I'm beginning to agree here. This could turn out bad for Sony.

Not only does Microsoft look set to beat Sony to the "computer entertainment" punch, but what happens if devs simply can't realize their visions on PS3 because the base console has no hard drive?

A few weeks ago, I'd said Sony was too smart to do something stupid (like a certain other company did when it chose old, outdated carts over high-capacity CD-ROMs). And yet, this hard drive issue may boil down to the same thing. Microsoft puts one in; Sony chooses not to. What are the repercussions? Is it possible they could lose Square or another big dev?

How ironic that the same decisions that led to Sony's rise may contribute to its fall.

All of this is to say nothing of the fact that a no-hard drive PS3 may hold back the gaming experience. For example, IMS is planning downloads and mods for its Elder Scrolls: Oblivion game. Will PS3 enjoy these types of benefits if only a fraction of its user base owns a hard drive? :?

[BlueTsunami]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

As I suggested before, if all PS3 content has to go through a Sony access portal, homebrew will enable anyone to create games, sell games, and Sony still get a cut. It'd be ideal.

As for Cell being no good for PC work, what work won't it be good for for the average Joe? I wordprocess, do digital image work, listen to music and video clips and surf the web. Cell can easily manage all these. From the Apple article (they tested Cell) they suggested the reason for not using Cell is because the programs would all need to be rewritten, as running existing code falls over due to lack of OOO features. Apple can't use Cell because old code won't run, not because it can't run a wordprocessor or art package or web browser.

Linux on PS3 could be a very capable platform and if Sony work it right, I could well see it becoming the spiritual successor to the Amiga (as long as they get a good, user friendly interface!)

Simple remedy, learn to use Linux. It not all that hard, most people that work on Linux Distros are going out of there way to make the environment as user friendly as ever!....

Another things is...the CELL is a new technology that will be using new architectures, Windows and Apple are built on Legacy hardware...and they won't budge for anything. What I can see happening is maybe Apple rewritting a variant OS thats not part of there main OS but is specifically tailored toward CELL based machines.

As Shifty said, the way to go is with Linux. Open Source pre-built OS....its the best choice of them all.

PS: I want to give props to Slackerware, Fedora Core 3 and Gentoo...if you've never used Linux try one of these three (or all three!)...you won't regret it!

Originally Posted by Kolgar

I'm beginning to agree here. This could turn out bad for Sony.

Not only does Microsoft look set to beat Sony to the "computer entertainment" punch, but what happens if devs simply can't realize their visions on PS3 because the base console has no hard drive?

A few weeks ago, I'd said Sony was too smart to do something stupid (like a certain other company did when it chose old, outdated carts over high-capacity CD-ROMs). And yet, this hard drive issue may boil down to the same thing. Microsoft puts one in; Sony chooses not to. What are the repercussions? Is it possible they could lose Square or another big dev?

How ironic that the same decisions that led to Sony's rise may contribute to its fall.

All of this is to say nothing of the fact that a no-hard drive PS3 may hold back the gaming experience. For example, IMS is planning downloads and mods for its Elder Scrolls: Oblivion game. Will PS3 enjoy these types of benefits if only a fraction of its user base owns a hard drive? :?

As far as this may being Sonys downfall...I don't see how that would effect them that much. Honestly, if developers are going to develop games with HDD functions then just develop them that way. All Sony needs to do is just release a HDD addon and it will be the consumers choice if they want the HDD or not. Bundle it or sell it separetly...just have the HDD available a little while after the launch of the PS3....that effectively takes away the NON HDD and PACKAGED HDD PS3's.

Sony (from a business standpoint) MUST know the importance of an HDD in the coming consoles, I honestly can't see them not bundling an HDD with the PS3 and not having a plan that allows consumers to easily get an HDD. If they do scrape HDD functions (or severely cripple it) then I can see that as a serious issue, it cannot be a true media center without some type of storage mechanism....

Note: Whats this thing Kutagari keeps throwing around about CELL Network storage? Imagine if you could connect to a PC in your house through your network and utilize its HDD.....

>.>

[scooby_dooby]

I've never understood the whole point of Linux on a console.

People have been installing linux on xbox's for like 3 years now, at least, but I didn't bother installing it on mine cause I really didn't see the point.

I mean, first of all there are tons of applications written specifically for the native OS, so anything you want to do you can pretty much do(web browser, ftp server, emulators, media centre, dvd players). And I don't get why someone would rather use their TV to do PC-related tasks liek browsing etc...what's the point really?

I guess from the PS3's point of view, linux would be cool cause it would let you install alot of different apps without needing them to be written specifically for the PS3 OS. But I really don't think sony would let you do that, it would be a pirates paradise.

The big problem with not including a HD is that nobody bothers writng very many applications for the system, so with no bundled HD you won't see an onslaught of homebrew software like you saw with the original XBOX, and might see with the 360, if it can be modded/exploited.

p.s. FC 3 rocks. YUM is a lifesaver.

[Kalin]

Linux on every PS3 HDD! A dream is coming true
Now let's see the prices

Why should I care if Sony makes a mistake with this, I love it no matter what 8)

[scooby_dooby]

Originally Posted by BlueTsunami

Note: Whats this thing Kutagari keeps throwing around about CELL Network storage? Imagine if you could connect to a PC in your house through your network and utilize its HDD.....

>.>

I think this goes under the category of "If it sounds too good to be true..it probably is"

By his referemce to a CELL server etc, he must mean uploading files to an external server via imternet connectiom.

How are they going to offer you a tera-byte of storage, and let you upload entire HD movies etc. If 120 GB is "too small" that means he expects more than that amount of storgae being required.

First of all, who has this kind of bandwidth or internet connection. And I don't know about your ISP's, but my ISP would be on my ass if I started uploading/downbloading 100's of gigs of data every month. And thirdly, who's paying for these servers with "tera-bytes" of storage and massive bandwidth limits, Sony?

It's one of those ideas that sounds great, but when you think it through, it's just not feasible.

[Kolgar]

Originally Posted by BlueTsunami

[Sony (from a business standpoint) MUST know the importance of an HDD in the coming consoles, I honestly can't see them not bundling an HDD with the PS3 and not having a plan that allows consumers to easily get an HDD. If they do scrape HDD functions (or severely cripple it) then I can see that as a serious issue, it cannot be a true media center without some type of storage mechanism....

Note: Whats this thing Kutagari keeps throwing around about CELL Network storage? Imagine if you could connect to a PC in your house through your network and utilize its HDD.....

Good points. I still think this is a risk on Sony's part, though.

Remember when KK said of the original PlayStation: "We imagined where games would be in five years, then we built that machine." Well I can see a hard drive being pretty important to a modern console and especially a "computer-entertainment" living room device in the next five years. And I think it's better to build in what you need instead of fracturing your user base with Haves and Have-Nots.

Granted, it'd be cool if there WAS some way to use your PC's hard drive, but again, I have no idea whether that would really work.

Bottom line for me is that right now, I see Microsoft in a much better position than Sony to become the center of our living rooms.

[BlueTsunami]

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

I think this goes under the category of "If it sounds too good to be true..it probably is"

How are they going to offer you a tera-byte of storage, and let you upload entire HD movies etc. If 120 GB is "too small" that means he expects more than that amount of stargae being required.

First of all, who has this kind of bandwidth or internet connection. And I don't know about your ISP's, but my ISP would be on my ass if I started uploading/downbloading 100's of gigs of data every month.

It's one of those ideas that sounds great, but when you think it through, it's just not feasible.

I'm talking about connecting to a PC in your HOUSE. Like the PS3 would be in the living room...and my main PC would be in my room. I have a home wireless network setup. Connect my PS3 to my OWN PC in my house and utilize the 250Gigs of HDD space that I have (40Gigs are being taken up, so utilize the rest). Its a good alternative to having no HDD at all....

[ralexand]

Sony is already shipping linux on the ps2? Has that set off a revolution. I think their goals of replacing pcs is alittle off base. In the end people buy consoles to play games, not to bring down the MS monopoly by going open source. Those individuals are a small part of the consumer market.

[scooby_dooby]

Originally Posted by BlueTsunami

I'm talking about connecting to a PC in your HOUSE. Like the PS3 would be in the living room...and my main PC would be in my room. I have a home wireless network setup. Connect my PS3 to my OWN PC in my house and utilize the 250Gigs of HDD space that I have (40Gigs are being taken up, so utilize the rest). Its a good alternative to having no HDD at all....

I think without a doubt, you will be able to do that.

Sony would be dumb not too, as 360 will have be built in sharing, and peole with modded xbox's have been doing that for years now. So I'm sure the PS3 will network to your PC with ease.

Hopefully it has some sort of built in media player, is this possible without a HD though?? It sucks, cause even with network capabilites, there's no way to install cool apps to take advantage of it, so you're stuck with whatever comes integrated into the PS3 system. Unless you shell out more cash for the internal HD.

[ralexand]

Originally Posted by scooby_dooby

I think without a doubt, you will be able to do that.

Sony would be dumb not too, as 360 will have be built in sharing, and peole with modded xbox's have been doing that for years now. So I'm sure the PS3 will network to your PC with ease.

Sony hasn't mentioned that.