[Qroach]

mckmas8808, seems to be trolling lately. You're better off not paying attention to him. That was another rendered game demo.

[mckmas8808]

Qroach you seem to be trolling me. Everywhere that I make a comment you have to automaticlly make the opposite. And I simply asked if they think the real game will look like the same as the one in the conference. And when it does I can see millions of people buying the PS3 for its greatness.

Also I thought I'd like to throw this in. Its part of an interview from Shane Kim Head of Mirosoft Game Studio.

Yes, it's a huge difference. Things that you saw, and I'll use another first-party title as an example, Project Gotham Racing 3, I think that gives you an indication of a visual bar that we're aspiring to. I mean, we wouldn't have shown that if we didn't believe that was absolutely reachable.

So do you think this is reachable?

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/7...605_wmvlow.wmv
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[marconelly!]

F1 game screens in full res has visible geometry edges, poor textures in places, and craploads of other problems that would indicate that even if it's CGI, it's CGI obviously made to be easy to immitate with realtime graphics. The footage certainly looked like a nice looking F1 TV broadcast, though.

Same with Motorstorm, and to an even greater degree. The screens show so many realtime lookning artifacts that I have a ahrd time believing that was CGI to being with. More like a cut scene rendered on a 6800 or something like that.

mckmas8808, the PGR3 trailer is a combination of pre-rendered graphics (mostly) and some realtime footage. Allard admitted as much.

[Laa-Yosh]

Originally Posted by marconelly!

Same with Motorstorm, and to an even greater degree. The screens show so many realtime lookning artifacts that I have a ahrd time believing that was CGI to being with. More like a cut scene rendered on a 6800 or something like that.

We've been through this enough times, right? Keep your beliefs if you wish to, but please stop spreading it like a prophet...

[mckmas8808]

mckmas8808, the PGR3 trailer is a combination of pre-rendered graphics (mostly) and some realtime footage. Allard admitted as much

Well what I'm trying to say is MS is basically saying the samething about PGR3 that Sony said about Killzone but to a lesser degree. MS has their eyes on PGR3 looking like that video. And you know what I will believe them until they prove me wrong. With 200% more power (this is questionable) to go who knows what the final product will look like. Next gen gaming will be the main focus of entertainment in the years to come.
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[Qroach]

I really wish you'd stop talking that way. You're NOT going to get pre-rendered graphics quality out of the next gen consoles. If you're thinking you will your going ot be veyr dissapointed. Now will it still look fantasitc? yes, but not identicle to some CG. So please stop trying to backtrack on eveyrthing you say, just to make it sounds like you're being more resonable. You've done this in every thread so far.

[marconelly!]

We've been through this enough times, right?

Not really, you actually never replied when I asked you to take a look at the high res versions of the motor storm screenshots. Trust me, it's quite a different story than screens of Killzone, which look a whole lot more prerendered than these F1 and motorstorm screens.

Here's a link:
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/ar...6073451233.jpg

Not the jagged edges everywhere, fake post processed motion blur, clipping, the shimmery textures on particles, flat-ish lighting.

Qroach, don't you think that Unreal 3 engine already offers graphics that are about as impressive as some uglier looking CGI from couple years ago? Many, *many* people would argue for example that U3 demo or Gears of War footage looked (or would look once they achieve solid framerate) more impressive than this F1 trailer for example, even though F1 could have been pre-rendered.

[Laa-Yosh]

Originally Posted by marconelly!

Not really, you actually never replied when I asked you to take a look at the high res versions of the motor storm screenshots. Trust me, it's quite a different story than screens of Killzone, which look a whole lot more prerendered than these F1 and motorstorm screens.

Trust me, I've posted enough aobut MotorStorm. Search for my posts and see. It's even more complex than Killzone, in terms of scene geometry, volumetric and fluid particle effects, lighting etc.
The fact that crappy motion blur gives rendering artifacts does not make it realtime.

[mckmas8808]

I can't wait until Laa-Yosh, Qroach, jvd, and others see that the PS3 is capable of handle graphics like MotorStorm, F1, and Killzone. Do you guys think that the Unreal Engine is the only engine that can produce great looking graphics? So far it looks like there is no game will ever look better than Gears of War.

I don't understand why you guys can't even give it a possiblity that the PS3 might be able to do this. The Unreal engine didn't bring us the best looking games of this generation, so why should it next-gen. If you noticed Killzone for the PS2 is really high in the poly count for the system.

Does that fire look familar?


Does this motion blur look familar?

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[Xeno]

Originally Posted by mckmas8808

So why is it that two other guys on LIVE TV says something and you totally ignore it? Better yet jvd can you answer this question for me? Do you think its possible for Killzone, Motorstorm, or F1 (for the PS3) to look like what we seen in the conference?

If Xbox 360 Alpha kits produced GoW running at 20~30FPS, why not? The end product will look slightly better without a doubt and if Xbox360 first gen games look better than the GoW images... Sure the poly count might go down a bit but I think it's possible to get the targeted visuals to a certain extent. Just don't plan on seeing every stich on a Helghast uniform, every pore on their skin or for the entire game to be scripted to a tee. :P

[blakjedi]

The difference in quality you notice between Ghost Recon 3 intro sequence, which is not a s dramatic as Killzone but looks *better*:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.p...5&type=wmv

and the gameplay sequence which looks just beyond this gen:

http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/xbox-...eplay-Footage/

will probably be roughly the same you see between Killzone 2 cg sequence:

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/7...one_wmvlow.wmv

and the actual game.

The good and bad thing about Gears is that it real is a good representation of what games will generally look like and only the best teams in the world on each platform will be able to get more than that...

which in the end means that over the next five or six years each one of those teams may produce three games each per platform that will make games beyond gears of war in visual quality....

[Qroach]

Qroach, don't you think that Unreal 3 engine already offers graphics that are about as impressive as some uglier looking CGI from couple years ago? Many, *many* people would argue for example that U3 demo or Gears of War footage looked (or would look once they achieve solid framerate) more impressive than this F1 trailer for example, even though F1 could have been pre-rendered.

I think GOW looks great, but it still doesn't compare to what has been done with CG. Even what was done a few years ago. The real question is, "Does it compare to the CG we see now?"

Sure, we've come a long way, but like I said I wouldn't expect much better then what the unreal 3 engine has produced for next gen consoles. The amount of time and effort invovled in just making something that looks close to unreal 3 (tech demo and GOW) is immense (and just the reason so many people are licensing unreal 3 tech). Anyone invloded with CG animation can tell you the real skinny on how close it is. I'm not saying you'll never see better, I'm just saying you won't see better like the night and day difference with PS2 first gen games and the most recent PS2 games. when GOW is basically a starting point.

mckmas8808 is just ignoring those that have either seen development or work on CG produced. What's funny is the CG sony showed is beyond what you can do in the unreal engine at interactive framerates IMO. and mckmas8808 is really latching onto this idea that PS3 is god and it can dio eveyrthing. This is just the reason that CG shouldn't have been showed or sony should have been more honest with what they were showing, as it creates fanatical fans like mckmas8808.

[rusty]

holy crap... i know that's prerendered but i actually though that was a photo for a minute

Originally Posted by mckmas8808

Oh I sorry that you won't like a racing game that looks like this.

[jvd]

I've already said that if the dev of killzone admits its a representation and not actual game play then I believe him . He is the one working on it and if he says its not real time and only a representation then that is what it is .

Not only that but the guy from epic said only thier stuff and the fight night were real time (and the cell demos )

Thats two developers who say its not real time vs a suit . I'd take developers any day of the week

[marconelly!]

I think GOW looks great, but it still doesn't compare to what has been done with CG. Even what was done a few years ago. The real question is, "Does it compare to the CG we see now?"

I know what you mean, technically it doesn't perhaps, but again, I think you'd have a lot of people being impressed more with footage of GoW or H. Sword (both realtime) than that F1 trailer.

I also think we'll see engines that render stuff better and more importantly different than U3. Shaders are already there, just look at those Nvidia tech demos that had things like volumetric lighting and sss - it's up to developers to use them.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by mckmas8808

I can't wait until Laa-Yosh, Qroach, jvd, and others see that the PS3 is capable of handle graphics like MotorStorm, F1, and Killzone.

Heh I can't wait to see your world fall apart when the truth is revealed .

It's a bit weird to argue with a guy who thinks PS3 games are going to look like prerendered movies, or that PS3 can almost render SW Episode 3 in realtime, there is something surreal about it...

[Qroach]

Aye, it's like he's getting paid to look , well, not so smart.

[jvd]

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

Heh I can't wait to see your world fall apart when the truth is revealed .

It's a bit weird to argue with a guy who thinks PS3 games are going to look like prerendered movies, or that PS3 can almost render SW Episode 3 in realtime, there is something surreal about it...

This is what happened with the ps2 . They will slowly forget about it . That is why i'm saying sony can gte away with this because it will be at least a year before anyone sees the real games and how much diffrent they are and the original videos will be much harder to track down .

Of course this time its diffrent as there are more websites out there and more places for the originals to hide out untill its time to compare them to the released product

[marconelly!]

jvd,
Demos shown at the unveiling of PS2 didn't look all that impressive compared to actual games we eventually got to see on PS2.

[Qroach]

That's not 100% true. Some of thsoe demos were veyr impressive. Most of the demos Sony showed were never matched in actual games. There's a good reason for that too. Considering how sony demonstrated the PS2 using a couple gigs of ram connected directly to the EE (or was it the GS, I gorget) that contained all pre transformed data to be rendered to the screen.

That's what I was told by people that worked for namco at the time.

[notAFanB]

Most of the demos Sony showed were never matched in actual games.

This is obvious to just about anyone by now. But were *any* of thopse demos ever reproduced in realtime since then? or did they remain the perpetual BS that they were?

[marconelly!]

That's not 100% true. Some of thsoe demos were veyr impressive.

None of them really was... when you look at it now, and especially if you look at it upclose and not on some thumbnail sized pictures that everyone seems to have embedded in mind. GT3/4 ended up looking much better than GT2000, demonstrated at that unveiling, the FF dance scene looks very simple compared to realtime cutscenes in SH3 or MGS3 (I really don't need to post pics of those, if you'd played either game you'd have no doubt about it), the old man face demo and RR girl had tons of polygons, but still the old guy from SH3 ends up looking better due to better texturing, self shadowing and healthy poolygon budget (not to mention how much more simplistic in scope those demo scenes were compared to cutscenes in the actual games I mentioned). All the demos also ran in the interlaced mode. Just look at those demos again, they look nothing special.

This is obvious to just about anyone by now. But were *any* of thopse demos ever reproduced in realtime since then? or did they remain the perpetual BS that they were?

Those demos were realtime, ran in interlaced mode, and looked quite poor even in the animation department if you compare them to recent efforts. As you can see on that GT200 picture, the textures weren't even filtered, dance demo had stiff animation and tons of clipping, etc.

[MechanizedDeath]

Originally Posted by Qroach

That's not 100% true. Some of thsoe demos were veyr impressive. Most of the demos Sony showed were never matched in actual games. There's a good reason for that too. Considering how sony demonstrated the PS2 using a couple gigs of ram connected directly to the EE (or was it the GS, I gorget) that contained all pre transformed data to be rendered to the screen.

That's what I was told by people that worked for namco at the time.

Are you kidding me? This ridiculous claim is fine from the f@nboys, but come on. You should know better. Those vids are still on IGN's site. Try this one:

http://ps2movies.ign.com/media/news/...mos/psx2_2.mpg

If that doesn't work, change the last number to 1-6. Something in that range should work. The PS2 demos were aliasing, clipping messes that only looked incredible b/c the DC was much weaker hw. I wish there were still hq versions of these vids around. It's laughable everytime someone drags this tired argument out. Most PS2 demos were destroyed by first-gen games. TTT, Bouncer, RR5's realtime intro and GT3. The head demo might not have been topped, but only b/c not many games featured a bodyless head floating in space. Even then, you can compare it to what we got in cutscenes in a number of other games.

As for the PS3 demos. After seeing CoD2, and GoW, and GR3. What makes anyone think KZ2 is still impossible? Not even J. Allard is making this claim. Even he said he thinks it's possible. He said 5 years' time, but it's not like he's gonna be running Sony's PR for them. Again, just b/c something looks incredible doesn't mean it's not credible. But this dead horse is begging to be buried. PEACE.

[marconelly!]

no point bring up ps2 demos that met ps2 games to justify ps3 demos will do the same.

I'm not saying that, and I haven't brough up the comparision either (jvd did).

[mckmas8808]

Thank you marconelly! I have been trying to tell these people but they won't listen. I don't fault them though, a lot of people feel the same way they do. I think the media has got them confused.
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