Beyond3D Forum

russo121 · 27-May-2005, 00:43

According to the theinquirer http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23522

"...With its new technique ATI will be able to do 8x, 10x, 12x and even 14x FSAA. That surely sounds insane but if you want to have even better picture quality this is one choice that you will have. A 14 times Full Scene Anti Aliasing sounds like an interesting idea now when most of people are using 4X only...."

jvd · 27-May-2005, 00:53

14x fsaa temporal ... 28x fsaa effective ? wozzaaaa hehe

Chalnoth · 27-May-2005, 01:06

Gah, this is just getting f'in ridiculous.

Fuad is just talking out of his ass for the umpteenth time, and 14x + 2x temporal is not even remotely close to 28x FSAA effective (in fact, as you increase the number of samples, the effect of temporal AA will decrease).

Richard · 27-May-2005, 01:23

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things but I get the 8x, 10x and the 12x but how are they pulling off 14x? Btw, if this story is true I'd much rather have 2xSSAA on the master + 6xMSAA on the slave than higher MSAA modes.

Blazkowicz · 27-May-2005, 01:30

I see it as 6x MSAA on the master and on the slave, with offset patterns, so that the combined output gives 6x MSAA plus 2x SSAA -> you end up with 12x AA.

If 10x and 14x are true then I have no idea

Ailuros · 27-May-2005, 01:43

Quote:

This one won't offer much of a performance difference but will let you use more then six times FSAA. That is the current limit with ATI cards while Nvidia can do some kind of 8X mode.

Sounds like the "AA-scaling mode" on simFusion; while geometry won't scale, AA sample density will. On a quad chip simFusion it's possible to reach 24x sparsed MSAA (4 chips * 6x).

What the end user gets is roughly single board R520 performance in such a case, just with twice as high AA samples. I've no idea what the odd sample amounts could stand for or if they're for real, yet 12x sparse MSAA (12*12) will be absolutely possible even on R4xx dual board configs.

VSA-100 mode

Chalnoth · 27-May-2005, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazkowicz_

I see it as 6x MSAA on the master and on the slave, with offset patterns, so that the combined output gives 6x MSAA plus 2x SSAA -> you end up with 12x AA.

Having both cards render the entire scene and combine via supersampling = BAD. It's just a horribly inefficient way of doing things. Not to mention you wouldn't be able to do this with two different video cards.

Frank · 27-May-2005, 01:57

Ah well, knowing the source, the 14x was probably a mistake and should be 13x instead.

Ailuros · 27-May-2005, 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiGuru

Ah well, knowing the source, the 14x was probably a mistake and should be 13x instead.

Why not 13.5x ? <shrugs>

Blazkowicz · 27-May-2005, 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalnoth

Having both cards render the entire scene and combine via supersampling = BAD. It's just a horribly inefficient way of doing things. Not to mention you wouldn't be able to do this with two different video cards.

I agree, of course it's bad, but it's easy and you could afford to do that on lots of games, especially when you are CPU limited (not hard with such ridiculous high power, even in HL2..)
(yes, impossible with different card).

also, it's a shame that nothing other my voodoo5 deals with the alpha blending issue :P

nAo · 27-May-2005, 02:18

Wow! 14x is a big number.. supersmooth edges but still flickerin tree leaves

Dave Baumann · 27-May-2005, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nAo

Wow! 14x is a big number.. supersmooth edges but still flickerin tree leaves

Think a little...

tEd · 27-May-2005, 02:36

richard huddy recently mentioned to developers that they could use alpha to mask functionality to AA alpha test on radeon9700 and above but they need to use a backdoor probably because the API doesn't directly supports it or something.

bloodbob · 27-May-2005, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

Think a little...

I'm obivously dumb I can't think of how 14 samples would slove the problem and I can't see how 14 samples would indicate that ati isn't just doing doing MSAA any more.

Geo · 27-May-2005, 03:04

I don't recall seeing this here. Pcpop claiming they have ATI's Crossfire logo. . .

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/90/90386.shtml

Blazkowicz · 27-May-2005, 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tEd

richard huddy recently mentioned to developers that they could use alpha to mask functionality to AA alpha test on radeon9700 and above but they need to use a backdoor probably because the API doesn't directly supports it or something.

does anyone know if WGF 1.0 will support that? (couldn't that be used for anti-aliasing of fonts?)

Ailuros · 27-May-2005, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tEd

richard huddy recently mentioned to developers that they could use alpha to mask functionality to AA alpha test on radeon9700 and above but they need to use a backdoor probably because the API doesn't directly supports it or something.

If it works in UT1/D3D w/o having to force it on the API then I can imagine what it is.

In such a case you get virtually antialiasing on alpha tests for free, but I can't imagine that they'd encount it as AA samples.

Ailuros · 27-May-2005, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by nAo

Wow! 14x is a big number.. supersmooth edges but still flickerin tree leaves

You know I have something quite mean in mind, yet not directed at ATI but a major ISV....

Rys · 27-May-2005, 06:25

12 geometry samples plus two texture samples

P.S. While I have access to the information, I still haven't had time to read it, since I'm out here in Taiwan working. That said, I have seen an ample grid that showed mixed mode 6 SGMS + 2xOGSS, which is what I'm basing my query on

bloodbob · 27-May-2005, 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rys

12 geometry samples plus two texture samples

By that logic the existing ati 2x,4x,6x should be called 3x,5,7x. And non AA should be called 2x.

_xxx_ · 27-May-2005, 07:29

Bugger. "Mine is bigger than yours" all over again...

dizietsma · 27-May-2005, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by nAo

Wow! 14x is a big number.. supersmooth edges but still flickerin tree leaves

Think a little...

Dave has been reading the tea leaves about the tree leaves.

RejZoR · 27-May-2005, 07:55

Remember,Matrox Parhellia was able to output 16xFAA (Fragment AntiAliasing). I wonder why noone impliments this method... It works where it suppose to. Thats on edges of objects only.

Chalnoth · 27-May-2005, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RejZoR

Remember,Matrox Parhellia was able to output 16xFAA (Fragment AntiAliasing). I wonder why noone impliments this method... It works where it suppose to. Thats on edges of objects only.

Because it wasn't able to detect all edges all the time.

nAo · 27-May-2005, 07:59

I think Dave is hinting to the fact higher AA sampling rate will be achieved via supersampling

27-May-2005, 00:43	#1
russo121 Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 281	Ati Crossfire capable of 14X FSAA According to the theinquirer http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23522 "...With its new technique ATI will be able to do 8x, 10x, 12x and even 14x FSAA. That surely sounds insane but if you want to have even better picture quality this is one choice that you will have. A 14 times Full Scene Anti Aliasing sounds like an interesting idea now when most of people are using 4X only...."

27-May-2005, 00:53	#2
jvd Naughty Boy! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: new jersey Posts: 12,731	14x fsaa temporal ... 28x fsaa effective ? wozzaaaa hehe __________________ Freexbox 360 !!! Free Psp!

27-May-2005, 01:06	#3
Chalnoth Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,678	Gah, this is just getting f'in ridiculous. Fuad is just talking out of his ass for the umpteenth time, and 14x + 2x temporal is not even remotely close to 28x FSAA effective (in fact, as you increase the number of samples, the effect of temporal AA will decrease). __________________ April 20, 1979 - America must never forget.

27-May-2005, 02:36	#13
tEd Casual Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,088	richard huddy recently mentioned to developers that they could use alpha to mask functionality to AA alpha test on radeon9700 and above but they need to use a backdoor probably because the API doesn't directly supports it or something. __________________ f@h name griswoold

27-May-2005, 03:04	#15
Geo Mostly Harmless Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Uffda-land Posts: 9,156	I don't recall seeing this here. Pcpop claiming they have ATI's Crossfire logo. . . http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/90/90386.shtml __________________ "We'll thrash them --absolutely thrash them."--Richard Huddy on Larrabee "Our multi-decade old 3D graphics rendering architecture that's based on a rasterization approach is no longer scalable and suitable for the demands of the future." --Pat Gelsinger, Intel ". . .its taking us longer than we would have liked to get a [Crossfire game] profiling system out there" --Terry Makedon, ATI, July 2006 "Christ, this is Beyond3D; just get rid of any fker talking about patterned chihuahuas! Can the dog write GLSL? No. Then it can fk off." --Da Boss

27-May-2005, 01:23	#4
Richard Mord's imaginary friend Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: PT, EU Posts: 3,506	Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things but I get the 8x, 10x and the 12x but how are they pulling off 14x? Btw, if this story is true I'd much rather have 2xSSAA on the master + 6xMSAA on the slave than higher MSAA modes.

27-May-2005, 01:30	#5
Blazkowicz Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toulouse Posts: 4,136	I see it as 6x MSAA on the master and on the slave, with offset patterns, so that the combined output gives 6x MSAA plus 2x SSAA -> you end up with 12x AA. If 10x and 14x are true then I have no idea

27-May-2005, 01:57	#8
Frank Certified not a majority Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sittard, the Netherlands Posts: 3,178	Ah well, knowing the source, the 14x was probably a mistake and should be 13x instead.

27-May-2005, 02:18	#11
nAo Nutella Nutellae Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 4,297	Wow! 14x is a big number.. supersmooth edges but still flickerin tree leaves

27-May-2005, 06:25	#19
Rys Tiled Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kings Langley, UK Posts: 2,675	12 geometry samples plus two texture samples P.S. While I have access to the information, I still haven't had time to read it, since I'm out here in Taiwan working. That said, I have seen an ample grid that showed mixed mode 6 SGMS + 2xOGSS, which is what I'm basing my query on

27-May-2005, 07:29	#21
_xxx_ Naughty Boy! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 5,008	Bugger. "Mine is bigger than yours" all over again... __________________ I have thought some of nature's journeymen had made men, and not made them well, they imitated humanity so abominably.

27-May-2005, 07:55	#23
RejZoR Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Europe\Slovenia\Ljubljana Posts: 300	Remember,Matrox Parhellia was able to output 16xFAA (Fragment AntiAliasing). I wonder why noone impliments this method... It works where it suppose to. Thats on edges of objects only. __________________ Intel Core i7 920 \| 6 GB RAM \| ASUS Rampage II Gene \| Sapphire HD6870 Toxic \| WD Caviar Black 2TB \| Auzentech Forte \| Altec Lansing MX5021 2.1

27-May-2005, 07:59	#25
nAo Nutella Nutellae Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 4,297	I think Dave is hinting to the fact higher AA sampling rate will be achieved via supersampling

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