[clem64]

Originally Posted by Acert93

Even if the PS3 GPU is 2x as powerful as the R500 we will still have the same issue. Developers choose to make that trade off. Some of it is art style, another is lack of optimization time, another is game genre, sometimes they overestimate their hardware and coding abilities, and sometimes it is just the realization that a 30FPS game looks better in still shots and that 2x the detail is often worth the 50% reduced framerate if only a small market of gamers (like Phil and me) really dislike it.

Funny you mentioned TS2--one of my fav games this gen. Very fast and smooth (unless you crank up the bots!)

I never see this issue going away. There are too many factors leading up to the frame rate being stable.

I agree. Did Sony really say they were looking to make 60hz standard next gen? If so well, I'll believe it when I see it.

On a related note, Phil I am not sure we should shoot barbs at MS over this.

Thing is, Rare themselves said they were aiming for 30. I seriously doubt the game will run at 60 by launch. Hey hopefully I'm wrong.

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by clem64

I agree. Did Sony really say they were looking to make 60hz standard next gen? If so well, I'll believe it when I see it.

Never heard that. I know they are supporting 1080p, and I assume that is 60Hz.

[Acert93]

After our 30-minute demo I was smiling, excited and still a little perplexed. Why didn't Microsoft show this on the showfloor, why didn't this very demo appear in motion in front of the hundreds of people crowded into the Shrine Auditorium? The demo I saw of Perfect Dark Zero, using an alpha kit running on a current-generation graphics card, is only running at 30% capacity. And it looked gorgeous. Absolutely beautiful, and nothing like the screenshots or clips you've seen so far. We'll have more on Perfect Dark very soon indeed.

Ok, so what were they showing??

They gush over the title (which considering they have been pretty blunt about other titles makes me think they are honest), so what gives?

The game sounds great... and if it has face-mapping, destructible environments, 50+ players online, BOTS, and plays well it should be great.

But like IGN, I am scratching my head... why not show it? If it is almost as good looking as Gear, this makes no sense.

[Inane_Dork]

MS has everyone and their mother talking about how the XDKs at E3 are only 25%-33% of the final console's power (or whatever it is).

Now, I think this is beyond MS's ability to predict, but they seem to have a great reaction so far. They're showing games and impressing the socks off a lot of people. Then they hit them with the alpha kit PR and the wonder is put back in their minds.

Next, they attack Sony for not showing real-time games. It's totally PR and borders on the despicable, but like I said, it's PR.

It almost seems like MS's conference was a feint and Sony took the bait. But I don't think MS is that crafty. At any rate, their current plan seems to be working great.

[jvd]

I'm going to come out for a second and give my opinion


IF pdz comes out as a launch title and has 50 player multiplay , has scanable faces and runs at only 30fps ... well I will live with it . Its a launch title .

[pc999]

What are MS doing :? :? :? :? :? :?

Call Of Duty 2

Forget the crappy trailer, the real game looks incredible.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/616/616786p1.html

[Acert93]

The trailer shown by Microsoft doesn't come close to the quality and clarity seen on the show floor. Aside from some aliasing (which will be gone before ship, it's required),COD 2 looks absolutely stellar on Xbox 360. The framerate had nary a hitch. It kicked some ass. Stop freaking out, the 360 really does have power!

First PDZ, now this. WHAT IS MS DOING??!!

Someone needs to be fired. Unless they pull out some kind of, "April fools" this has to be the worse handled E3 ever. It is not like MS does not have quality junk to show and talk about, it just seems someone has no organization skills.

The Nintendo On fake had more savy than whoever is leading the MS show. Next time: Leave the PR guys at home, screw the target groups, get the developers up there and share their passion.

[_phil_]

developpers have made a joke to Bill gates ,just to test his new pacemaker...?

[jvd]

Mabye the videos were finished before these new builds ? or mabye ms had everyone working triple time since last thursday ?

[pegisys]

It almost seems like MS's conference was a feint and Sony took the bait. But I don't think MS is that crafty. At any rate, their current plan seems to be working great.

you must not pay much attention to the fud they put out on linux

the time dreamcast came out I saw a few games in mags and on tv and they seemed ok but not enough to make me buy it. then I was in a store and was able to play the demos and I had to get one, that might be what microsoft is trying to pull off

were sony is showing high quality footage of what games may look on the ps3, but probally not for a year or two, and if the xbox360 ends up having better looking games than the ps3 at luanch some people might change there minds

[pc999]

Meybe they can do the same to the specs, and at the ensd of tomorow they say that the dev kits are only at 1/6 of the power.
(I ´am kinding ... , and now, more hopefull )

[Acert93]

I have a theory...

PDZ was an early build of multiplayer, on dev units of course, and wont be as impressive as the SP. It has body/face mapping, destructable environments, a lot of weapons, huge levels, and 50+ people with VoIP. It is also an upgraded port. The SP is what they are raving about (this also explains the difference in picture quality).

CoD2 trailer was a PC trailer and has footage/shots we have seen for a while. CoD2 demo they are playing represents the most recent work with more features on their engine going.

GoW, since it is a high end engine being developed with DX9+ specs as a foundation, is capable to take advantage of all the nice stuff here and now--even in the dev kits.

Kameo is an Xbox 360 port... same with DoA4. I would suspect TN is working on a new DoA4 with the new HW, but with the launch window so close and no real HW they are just going with what they have so they can have a launch title. The Madden footage and Fifa footage so far also look like ports.

ES: Oblivion is another DX9 PC title and not a console port explaining the better look.

The cross platform stuff--Xbox 360 and PS3--look good (like DarkSector).

Basically we have a lot of current gen ports, a few next gen titles and most of those are plagued with running on SM 2.0 hardware that is 50% less powerful.

Basically it looks/sounds like the HW was not ready and developers were left scrambling to do their best. MS did not prepare any demos, they did not pay to get fancy trailers. And whoever put it together seems to have forgot to actually get the best looking stuff. Obviously the finished GPU will be much faster and have free AA...

But it really makes you wonder who is oranizing all this stuff. What would have been so hard to show the GAMEPLAY footage of CoD2, PDZ, Gears, etc... and just mention, "Btw, PDZ MP will hve 50 people, destructable environments, and body/face mapping" and just leave it at that?

It is just silly at this point. They show PDZ at MTV, then totally pull back--only for us to learn it rocks. They show a lame CoD2 trailer, only to find out the game looks a TON better. They somehow are stupid enough NOT to spotlight Gears, GR3, and PGR (which is totally absent! ).

They need to hire the guy who made the Nintendo On video. I hope Gates and Co. sit down with Mr. Allard and ask him to explain why they have all these great games that are impressive yet he chose to show... Kameo? Full Auto?

[pc999]

Originally Posted by Acert93

I have a theory...

PDZ was an early build of multiplayer, on dev units of course, and wont be as impressive as the SP. It has body/face mapping, destructable environments, a lot of weapons, huge levels, and 50+ people with VoIP. It is also an upgraded port. The SP is what they are raving about (this also explains the difference in picture quality).

I thought they showed MP at E3, I may be wrong but I doubt...

[rusty]

Originally Posted by Acert93

I have a theory...

PDZ was an early build of multiplayer, on dev units of course, and wont be as impressive as the SP. It has body/face mapping, destructable environments, a lot of weapons, huge levels, and 50+ people with VoIP. It is also an upgraded port. The SP is what they are raving about (this also explains the difference in picture quality).

no, they were definately talking about the multiplayer... so that bit doesn't count as a reason :?

[Acert93]

Then what the heck were they showing at the MTV thing?! :?

They did not have a major jump in quality in 1 week. Something just is not right here...

[jvd]

Originally Posted by Acert93

Then what the heck were they showing at the MTV thing?! :?

They did not have a major jump in quality in 1 week. Something just is not right here...

what do u mean 1 week ?

I believe it was 3 weeks since the mtv special was filmed

[Acert93]

Originally Posted by jvd

what do u mean 1 week ?

I believe it was 3 weeks since the mtv special was filmed

I thought it was filmed the Thursday before the MTV special on the 12th. 2 or 3 weeks... somewhere in there. Heck the tourny stuff could have been even before...

We are still talking big jumps.

[jvd]

well it depends . Ms could have gotten negative recations the day of the filiming inregards to the graphics . So they put rare to work upping the detail . It could be that + the fact that the build they used was older to make sure it was stable to have people running around fighting at the show and the build they have today is newer . Heck it can be over a month newer for all we know .

[blakjedi]

Originally Posted by Inane_Dork

MS has everyone and their mother talking about how the XDKs at E3 are only 25%-33% of the final console's power (or whatever it is).

Now, I think this is beyond MS's ability to predict, but they seem to have a great reaction so far. They're showing games and impressing the socks off a lot of people. Then they hit them with the alpha kit PR and the wonder is put back in their minds.

Next, they attack Sony for not showing real-time games. It's totally PR and borders on the despicable, but like I said, it's PR.

It almost seems like MS's conference was a feint and Sony took the bait. But I don't think MS is that crafty. At any rate, their current plan seems to be working great.

Inane Dork this post should be its own thread. I have been thinking about the all the recent revelations regarding games like GoW, GR3, PDZ and the new info we've been receiving on the Xenos chip set ( I consider the combinantion edram and R500 a chipset) and you may actually be absolutely right. I think MS let SOny bring out their big guns andSony fired of everything they had not realizing that A) they have now set the bar for their games so high that they may disappoint their fanbase and that B) they have given MS even more time to shock and awe us later this year when they drop mindblowing experiences on us.

Everyone says that MS and SOny launch is six months apart but its no more than four (Dec - March). That said I feel liek we still dont really know whats in Xenos and wont until the July Devkit is released. They seem to be holding everything close to their chest and Sony has shot its wad...

Like I said great post.

[jvd]

FPS I'll be really disappointed if we can't keep a steady 30 at worse and would prefer 60 but given time scales 60 may not be possible (I'm personally fussy about framerate so I'll try for a steady 60fps)

DeanoC on heavenly sword a ps3 game


Guess you wont be buying a ps3 ?

[passby]

The observation follows:

#1) Screens and clips that we CAN see disappoint.

#2) Commercial gaming sites tell us 'Hey no it's AWESOME'! Except they don't show any screens and clips to prove it. Mysteriously PR does not demo these 'drop-dead-gorgeous-awesome-ownz-you' screens/clips publicly in E3.

Conclusion: $$$ can lift games to new heights of splendour, transform Rare to god-like developer status, and people believe the commercial gaming sites.

[Acert93]

If you look at IGNs post conference summary they do not hold any punches. I doubt they got paid money to change their tune. They even note that the MTV/screen grabs look nothing like what they played and are just as confused.

This is not the only example. CoD2 is the same deal. The Kameo feeds on the net are way better than the trailer. It more seems like MS is unorganized.

[Inane_Dork]

Originally Posted by Acert93

It more seems like MS is unorganized.

Yep. Thank fate that it's ending on the up note instead of the down note. I'd much rather have it this way than the other way around.

[Evi]

Microsoft's whole presentation was very disorganized.

But um...I'm glad to hear that PDZ will look incredible. 8) But if this is the case, I don't know why they've been giving us these super crappy looking screenshots. Maybe it was all an evil conspiracy?

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by jvd

well it depends . Ms could have gotten negative recations the day of the filiming inregards to the graphics . So they put rare to work upping the detail . It could be that + the fact that the build they used was older to make sure it was stable to have people running around fighting at the show and the build they have today is newer . Heck it can be over a month newer for all we know .

Wow... so, after years of lazying around, they finally start pulling their own weight in the last month?
What exactly have they been doing all these years, and after all the money they're getting!?

I mean... that would mean that even I do more work than them. And that's just not physically possible.

Anyway, happy to see that whatever happened, PD0 (am i the only one who keeps saying "panzer drag... DOH... perfect dark" in his head?) seems to look the part.