[whql]

I do, and I was there when my company was offered to become part of TWIWMTBP program and there is no cash involved.

So, tell us about what ati do then - not just stories you've heard from others (from who, I'm wondering...)

And, no, not all title / games are going to be equal, now, are they.

ATi's dev rel program for game companies only started to pick up about two years maybe alittle bit longer

ati have had dev rel for years - "get in the game" appears to be something newer, and this sounds like nvidia's twimtbp

Check the screen differences, there are rendering differences there, that means different shaders! If the math was the same to begin with there wouldn't be those differences would there?

Most of the differences look like they were on the gun! Couldn't the difference be just down to slightly different texture handling? Demirug says there were only 6 alterations for nvidia, this just happens to be one does it?

Thats the thing ID never put it up for auction like Valve did,

Are you sure that activision didn't though?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/do...s_6090372.html

[karlotta]

Razor1,how do you come to your conclusions? NVDA got out bid. they stopped for whatever reason. You do know ATI is a larger company that NVDA? I dont realy know, but from the time period it seemed there was some personality issue with NVDA PR and some devs. Going over the heads of devs to the Publishers suits to get what they want... suits greaseing suits , you know " the Way its ment to be Played

[neliz]

Originally Posted by radeonic2

I'm not convinced the TWIMTBP makes sure nvidia hardware runs the game good, or better thant he competetion, since there has been a large number of titles that run better on ati hardware, far cry and EQ2 come to mind.

Right, need for speed (2) Joint operations, unreal tournament, the list just goes on...

btw, how many people believe that there was a programmer on the unreal2003 team that bugged nv cards? since all they say "hey, that's a red crawling bomb destroying the green guy in the TWIMTBP logo..."

When is the next episode of x-files?

[Razor1]

Originally Posted by radeonic2

I'm not convinced the TWIMTBP makes sure nvidia hardware runs the game good, or better thant he competetion, since there has been a large number of titles that run better on ati hardware, far cry and EQ2 come to mind.

Dev rel only does so much, the rest is up to the developers them selves to do, Nvidia isn't going to make an entire engine for you. If a publisher pushes the developer to get the game out as fast as they can yeah there will be issues. You saw that with the 1.2 patch in Far Cry which was pushed out way too fast, really messed up ATi cards, the 1.3 fixed all that they needed a couple of months to do so.

the leaked beta, yeah I saw that one, the russians (xbit?) had benchmarks "highly expected directx9 game" and you saw ati win all over the board, this was in the time that ati's lead in hl2 went from 40% to 20% (remember it?)

Yes I do http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...r420-2_12.html

Where did it beat it by 20%?

Here is the one from Xbit

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-wxp-1600.html

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-wxp-1600.html

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-wxp-1600.html

[Razor1]

Originally Posted by whql

So, tell us about what ati do then - not just stories you've heard from others (from who, I'm wondering...)

And, no, not all title / games are going to be equal, now, are they.

ati have had dev rel for years - "get in the game" appears to be something newer, and this sounds like nvidia's twimtbp

Most of the differences look like they were on the gun! Couldn't the difference be just down to slightly different texture handling? Demirug says there were only 6 alterations for nvidia, this just happens to be one does it?

Are you sure that activision didn't though?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/do...s_6090372.html

I never said that ATi didn't have dev rel before only that it started picking up lately.

Its not just the gun there was a shot in there where the wall and gound were also different. I can understand if it was only the gun but when you have screens where there are no changes then there are ones with changes, there is something going on.

ID never did that, their publisher Activision did, thats the difference. Activision got thier cut like all publishers do then ID got thier money, for the sales. If Activision made ID make specific optimizations for nvidia cards you think Carmack would go for that?

Valve did it without Vivendi involved. Part of that court case was about that.

[Razor1]

Originally Posted by karlotta

Razor1,how do you come to your conclusions? NVDA got out bid. they stopped for whatever reason. You do know ATI is a larger company that NVDA? I dont realy know, but from the time period it seemed there was some personality issue with NVDA PR and some devs. Going over the heads of devs to the Publishers suits to get what they want... suits greaseing suits , you know " the Way its ment to be Played

There is no way a publisher can force its developers to make something specific to happen, unless the publisher owns the developer. Which then makes them the boss anyways. EA is a different situation they do own most of the studios that makes games for them, so yes they can force thier developers to make specific opts if in turn they get favors form one of the ISV's. But when its a big time guy like ID or Valve publishers can't push thier weight around.

[Dave Baumann]

This has digressed from the path of the topic. Either keep it on topic (if there are any more morsels or rumours to discuss) or we'll stop this.

BTW - At this point in time I'd be surpised if both vendors don't support blending on modes other than FP16.

[digitalwanderer]

Well I'm pretty sure it'll have one power molex required...

[Jawed]

Will any of the R520 series be single-slot cooled?

Jawed

[hoom]

I'm sorry to keep to the OT but the fact is that both Doom3 and Halflife2 were released sans the much vaunted & optimised NV3x code paths.

Not because ATI did some nefarious deal but because by that time Nvidia had their automatic shader substitution/first run recompilation infrastructure in place and were actively encouraging developers to just code one path.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewto...;view=previous

Now, on with the main show:

I predict that the heatsink will be made of copper and that there will be a fan on it.
Further, the fan will probably be centrifugal flow type

[whql]

Originally Posted by Razor1

I can understand if it was only the gun but when you have screens where there are no changes then there are ones with changes, there is something going on.

The water in half life 2 moves! The reason the gun is showing differences is because that also moves frame by frame and they can't get the screenhots in exactly the same position - the water shader shows differences because it is moving (wanna bet thats a flickering light or reflections from water on the floor in the other shot as well?)

[Razor1]

Originally Posted by whql

The water in half life 2 moves! The reason the gun is showing differences is because that also moves frame by frame and they can't get the screenhots in exactly the same position - the water shader shows differences because it is moving (wanna bet thats a flickering light or reflections from water on the floor in the other shot as well?)

I'm not going to comment anymore but it was a time demo, prerecorded path that excuss doesn't work.

Jawed it probably will be a double slot solution.

[digitalwanderer]

Has anyone heard anything about any supey-dupey uber-demos that ATi will pimp their new hardware with? Are they just going to put out another chapter in the Ruby saga or can we expect some magic like the musical pipe machine thingy that came with the R300 and a bunch of other tech demos?

(Sayeth the Dig in a rather blatantly desperate attempt to keep the thread open.)

[Geo]

Well, what I want to know is if Wavey is going to Mediacast UK next week, and if special guests might get a peek at something cool (and related to this thread).

Given the silence at www.ati.com I've given up hope on any big announcements there, but I would still think they will have some goodies there --maybe even take-home goodie-bags for some special attendees?

[Fodder]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

Has anyone heard anything about any supey-dupey uber-demos that ATi will pimp their new hardware with? Are they just going to put out another chapter in the Ruby saga or can we expect some magic like the musical pipe machine thingy that came with the R300 and a bunch of other tech demos?

I read a while back that the guys who made the original Ruby demo were hard at work on R520 launch demos, and that's why the X850 Ruby was handled internally.

[_xxx_]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

They couldn't have bought out Valve, they didn't have the cash.

Ahem, nV has enough cash to buy Valve like a few thousend times.

[_xxx_]

Originally Posted by neliz

The hardware survey (http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html) shows 220.000 9600 and 9800 cards used.
let's say $75 for the 9600xt processor, and $125 for the 9800xt processor:

113.240*$125=$14.155.000
107.932*$75=$8.094.900
Ati sure as hell made a lot of money with their 96/98+hl2 ad. campaign...

And you surely think all these people bought those cards just because of HL2...

[whql]

I'm not going to comment anymore but it was a time demo, prerecorded path that excuss doesn't work.

The benchmarks were a timedemo, but the images? Even if that was the case the screengrab would have to be from exactly the same frame for everything to be in exactly the same position. Its clear they are not in the same position because of the differences in the weapon in each of the shots that has one.

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

This has digressed from the path of the topic. Either keep it on topic (if there are any more morsels or rumours to discuss) or we'll stop this.

Hmmm...ok this is somewhat off topic too, but didn't you a while back point out that IHVs are aware of the lack of exiting AAA titles?

That pro-Doom3/contra-HL2 (or vice versa) stuff is boring me to death, since neither titles blowed me personally out of my socks (even if it'll be considered "blasphemy" by some). And no pardon if I say so, neither/nor were reason enough to upgrade for; at least for me.

Question would be if there are going to be one or more highly expected games released around mid 2005, to push either/or IHV's new batch of GPU sales.

[Geo]

You guys get this thread locked because you can't take a direct hint to LET IT GO and I shall have to hunt you down and break wind while you're eating.

[Neeyik]

Well it would seem that people just simply cannot let certain things drop (or at the very least go and start a new thread); there's nothing new coming up here and the thread is dead as dead donkey that died a very long time ago.

Probably best if a new one starts up once fresh info appears to be honest.