[Clashman]

So, I've noticed quite a few people pimpin' firefox here at B3D and decided to try it out myself. What I saw didn't blow my socks off, and in fact right off the install seemed significantly less-intuitive than Opera. So I was wondering what everyone else here thinks? Is Opera better than Firefox, or vice-versa? Have I just not taken enough time to fiddle with it to make it run smoother? If you had to choose between the two, which would you choose, and why?

Bring it on!

[Clashman]

Shit, I thought I had an "other" option here. I apparently didn't fill it out properly. If someone has something else, please note it in here.

[silence]

What i like with Firefox is number of extensions you can add......
Whne you install it, its small, fast and gives you basics....but if you need anything, you can add it with extensions....

i have over 50 extensions installed.


check here : http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/
much more extensions then on : https://addons.update.mozilla.org/ex...cation=firefox


theme i use...with some additional tweaks explained : http://www.tom-cat.com/mozilla/firefox.html


hope it helps.....

[T2k]

Check this out: http://www.moox.ws/tech/mozilla/

[Moloch]

Opera for image heavy pages(it only decodes image into bmp when you the image shows, instead of decoding all of them into BMP regardless if they are on screen - my understanding of it, could very well be wrong) firefox for the awesome extentions.
Opera seems a bit worse than FF for web sites working right, and worse in respect to security.
http://secunia.com/product/761/ opera
http://secunia.com/product/4227/ firefox

[thehulk]

Firefox is good, but Opera is the best. 8)

[Diplo]

Opera all the way - were Opera innovates FireFox copies and IE fails.

However, sadly, I doubt most people who vote have even given Opera a proper try.

[Xmas]

Opera, although there is still a lot of room for improvement.

[Guden Oden]

Originally Posted by Diplo

However, sadly, I doubt most people who vote have even given Opera a proper try.

I haven't tried opera even for a second, so I'm not voting at all. I don't like having to pay for a browser (and no, please don't bring up the "free" ad-"financed" version). Gimme free stuffs kk thx! :P

[Moloch]

Originally Posted by Diplo

Opera all the way - were Opera innovates FireFox copies and IE fails.

However, sadly, I doubt most people who vote have even given Opera a proper try.

I tried it, it seriously is no where near FF for compatability, aswell as missing the awesome extentions FF has.
Who cares about copying? Everyone does it in the pc world

[Diplo]

Originally Posted by Guden Oden

I haven't tried opera even for a second, so I'm not voting at all. I don't like having to pay for a browser (and no, please don't bring up the "free" ad-"financed" version). Gimme free stuffs kk thx! :P

Firstly, the "ad-financed" version can use Google text ads in a tiny bar at the top that are virtually un-noticeable (I use payed for at home and ad-financed at work and don't notice the difference). You still use this website even though it has much more prominent and in your face ads - why is that?

Second, how many hours a year do you spend on the internet? A lot, I'd wager. So why not pay a tiny amount (and €30 is a trivial amount) for something that makes that process so much more enjoyable? So much easier, quicker and more efficient? I bet you pay a lot more for games that you play for a fraction of the time you would use a browser. Sadly this attitude of "I want everything on the internet for free" is what leads to mediocrity and the lowest common denominator triumphing.

[silence]

why pay even that when u have better for free

[Squeak]

The thing is with FF you choose when you want to pay and how much. If you have any decency and social consciousness you’ll donate to Mozilla if you enjoy using FF.
http://spreadfirefox.com/?q=node/view/110

[Guden Oden]

Originally Posted by Diplo

You still use this website even though it has much more prominent and in your face ads - why is that?

Coz I don't have the ads built into the browser, they belong to the website. There's a difference there.

So why not pay a tiny amount (and €30 is a trivial amount) for something that makes that process so much more enjoyable?

Opera cannot POSSIBLY make the internet €30 more enjoyable. It's the content I enjoy, not the program displaying it...

Sadly this attitude of "I want everything on the internet for free" is what leads to mediocrity and the lowest common denominator triumphing.

Sadly? I bet you wouldn't like if you had to pay to read every website you visit. That's no better than a store that collects an entrance fee.

I do pay for internet-distributed software, I've donated to the Azureus team too. I just prefer to spend my money on other things when there's free alternatives to be had.

[Moloch]

Originally Posted by Diplo

Firstly, the "ad-financed" version can use Google text ads in a tiny bar at the top that are virtually un-noticeable (I use payed for at home and ad-financed at work and don't notice the difference). You still use this website even though it has much more prominent and in your face ads - why is that?

Second, how many hours a year do you spend on the internet? A lot, I'd wager. So why not pay a tiny amount (and €30 is a trivial amount) for something that makes that process so much more enjoyable? So much easier, quicker and more efficient? I bet you pay a lot more for games that you play for a fraction of the time you would use a browser. Sadly this attitude of "I want everything on the internet for free" is what leads to mediocrity and the lowest common denominator triumphing.

There's a thing called adblock for firefox- any ads I see are quicky disgarded.
Faster than firefox? Not enough to really notice, the limit is your connection to the website.
Who cares if FF copied opera to get tabs and other things, untill opera has community support via pluggins, it will always be 2nd best.

[L233]

Opera.

What pisses me off about Firefox is the complete lack of built-in customizability. I want to arrange the position of the UI elements to fit my needs. With Firefox I cannot even move the tab bar to the bottom of the browser window.

Oh, sure, I could spend a few hours tracking down some extensions and plugins to provide the basic functionality I need but frankly, I don't wanna. I don't want to wade through hundreds of extensions in various stages of developement with feature descriptions that often leave me puzzled about what eactly the thing is supposed to do. I don't want to worry whether my extensions will still be compatible with the next version of the browser software and so on....

All I want is some basic built-in functionality and UI custzomizability - hardly something that makes a browser bloated. Opera proves that.

Opera is far superior to Firefox when it comes to usability and it's getting better with every new major version. It also "feels" so much better than Firefox. Snappier, slicker, more responsive, more polished.

Compatibility isn't much of an issue, Opera works on pretty much all pages I visit and in the very, very rare cases in which Opera doesn't work it doesn't kill me to fire up IE for a few minutes.

The ad-banner in the free version is so unintrusive (it doesn't blink or anything) that you completely forget that it's there after a short time. I eventually bought a lincense, not because I wanted to get rid of the banner (which didn't bother me at all) but because I wanted to support this great piece of software.

I feel kinda sorry for the Opera developers. They have been the only true innovators on the browser market for many years and every single of their innovations is being ripped off by the Firefox team and their extension goons.

[nutball]

These discussions always amuse me. What is it about men and their tech choice angst?

Sheesh, next we'll be arguing about which brand of graphics card we prefer, or maybe which of the two chip makers we buy our processors from. Where will it end?

[Moloch]

Originally Posted by L233

Opera.

What pisses me off about Firefox is the complete lack of built-in customizability. I want to arrange the position of the UI elements to fit my needs. With Firefox I cannot even move the tab bar to the bottom of the browser window.

Oh, sure, I could spend a few hours tracking down some extensions and plugins to provide the basic functionality I need but frankly, I don't wanna. I don't want to wade through hundreds of extensions in various stages of developement with feature descriptions that often leave me puzzled about what eactly the thing is supposed to do. I don't want to worry whether my extensions will still be compatible with the next version of the browser software and so on....

All I want is some basic built-in functionality and UI custzomizability - hardly something that makes a browser bloated. Opera proves that.

Opera is far superior to Firefox when it comes to usability and it's getting better with every new major version. It also "feels" so much better than Firefox. Snappier, slicker, more responsive, more polished.

Compatibility isn't much of an issue, Opera works on pretty much all pages I visit and in the very, very rare cases in which Opera doesn't work it doesn't kill me to fire up IE for a few minutes.

The ad-banner in the free version is so unintrusive (it doesn't blink or anything) that you completely forget that it's there after a short time. I eventually bought a lincense, not because I wanted to get rid of the banner (which didn't bother me at all) but because I wanted to support this great piece of software.

I feel kinda sorry for the Opera developers. They have been the only true innovators on the browser market for many years and every single of their innovations is being ripped off by the Firefox team and their extension goons.

Hours? Try seconds
FF has basic functionality built in, perhaps you want mouse gestures built in?
How could it be snappier than FF, nothing slows down FF, cept when you use all your memory up when viewing extremely image heavy pages.
The ad banner IS instrusive, why would anyone want to stare at an ad while they browse? FF is by far the best FREE browser out there, and I dont even like the pay version of opera because it's missing the uber extentions FF has, it may not have all the built in functionality you want, but atleast if you can think of something it doesn't have, you can find an extention in seconds.
Can't say that about opera can we?
If they have a good adblocker, it would be alot better, because you seriously can't come across many pages without ads.
You may think "whats the big deal, just a small ad", it is extremely distracting to have some ad on a page, even more so when you know with a FREE browser you could easily block it.
The optimal browsing solution should be FF for browsing regular pages, and opera for browsing image heavy pages.
Btw innovation is great and all, but ultimaty you'd be a fool to think a good idea isn't going to be copied- look at the computer industy.
innovation doesn't have much of a reward, sure you had the idea, but another company is just going to steal your idea.

[Diplo]

Originally Posted by radeonic2

There's a thing called adblock for firefox- any ads I see are quicky disgarded.

I see. So you are quite happy to take from this website but are unwilling to even view a few adverts that help fund it's existance? What a selfish attitude. If everybody had your attitude many 'free' sites on the internet would cease to exist or they would become subscription only. I'm sure Dave and the other people who run this website really appreciate your attitude.

[silence]

Originally Posted by Diplo

I see. So you are quite happy to take from this website but are unwilling to even view a few adverts that help fund it's existance? What a selfish attitude. If everybody had your attitude many 'free' sites on the internet would cease to exist or they would become subscription only. I'm sure Dave and the other people who run this website really appreciate your attitude.

in my whole internet experience, _ONLY_ banners i ever clicked was by mistake, so i love adblock. it removes them and makes _MY_ experience better. and it is also _MY_ clicks that make traffic which sells adds....and _MY_ bandwidth, which _I_ pay (cause of fucked up monopoly here)....

so if _I_ want to save _MY_ money by blocking useless shit i have no problem with that.

if _YOU_ want, you can ask croatian govermant to force flatrate on ISPs, so i wont bother.... :P

[L233]

Originally Posted by radeonic2

Hours? Try seconds
FF has basic functionality built in, perhaps you want mouse gestures built in?

The most important thing is a flexible, customizable UI. Firefox doesn't have that. And yeah, why no built-in mouse gestures, I consider that basic functionality, too. Opera has all that packed up in a 3.5mb package - smaller than Firefox.

How could it be snappier than FF, nothing slows down FF, cept when you use all your memory up when viewing extremely image heavy pages.

I said it FEELS snappier. There are things about the look and feel of applications that cannot be measured in milliseconds.

Besides, the UI of Firefox simply sucks. If you want to open a new tab you either have to press CTRL-T, go through the dropdown menu or double click on the tab bar - but there is no tab bar until you open a second tab. I wonder who is the moron who designed that system.

Why doesn't FF have a flexible password management like Opera? Why doesn't it have the rewind button? Why isn't important functionality directly accessible from the drop down menues instead of having to go through the options? Where is the auto-reload feature? Where is the icon that opens me a new, empty tab? Where is the zoom option? And why doesn't FF save the opened tabs when I close the browser so I can continue where I was next time I start the browser - that's a big one for me?

The ad banner IS instrusive, why would anyone want to stare at an ad while they browse?

I don't know about you but when I use the internet I look at the page's content and not the upper right corner of the browser where the ad banner is placed.

and I dont even like the pay version of opera because it's missing the uber extentions FF has

Like what?

it may not have all the built in functionality you want, but atleast if you can think of something it doesn't have, you can find an extention in seconds.

That hasn't been my experience. I am still looking for a simple extension that lets me move the fucking tab bar to the bottom of the browser window. Oh, I am sure there is one but I can't find it because of the crappy functionality descriptions of the extensions.

You have to INSTALL most extension if you want to know what exactly they do because desciptions like "Enables enhanced control for tabbed browsing" or "Select actions for clicking events on a tab or the tabbar" doesn't tell you anything.

"Seconds" my ass.

If they have a good adblocker, it would be alot better, because you seriously can't come across many pages without ads.

Opera has had an pop-up blocker long before there even WAS Firefox. It even has a blocker for flash scripts. That takes care of the most annoying ads.

I don't belive in filtering banner ads because many web sites depend on the revenue generated from them. Filtering them would be parasitic. I find it questioable that a browser comes with functionlity that actively sabotages the financing of free services. Just imagine if FF had a 80% market share... and you'd see a lot of free services die.

The optimal browsing solution should be FF for browsing regular pages, and opera for browsing image heavy pages.

As long as Firefox doesn't have an acceptable UI and just sucks donkey balls when it comes to usability and UI ergonomics. It's inferior to everything except plain-vanilla IE. Hell, there are even free IE front-ends like Avant Browser or MYIE2 that are so much better than Firefox. Firefox has still a lot of growing up to do in the UI department. It's barely usable as it is now.

It's far from the"optimal browsing solution". Migrating from Opera to Firefox would be serious downgrade.

[silence]

Originally Posted by L233

Besides, the UI of Firefox simply sucks. If you want to open a new tab you either have to press CTRL-T, go through the dropdown menu or double click on the tab bar - but there is no tab bar until you open a second tab. I wonder who is the moron who designed that system.

i open tabs by clicking middle mouse button....or using mouse gestures (press right mouse and slightly pull it up, u can configure mouse gestures as u like).

so only moron is person that doesnt wanna even try to see what options are there.

[Guden Oden]

Originally Posted by L233

The most important thing is a flexible, customizable UI.

Most programs don't have that, not a biggie for me personally.

And yeah, why no built-in mouse gestures

That si teh useless for me. Don't care.

I said it FEELS snappier. There are things about the look and feel of applications that cannot be measured in milliseconds.

I wouldn't be surprised if Opera is (much) faster than FF; the graphics routines is the suckiest part of the program right now IMO. They're way slow and CPU-hungry compared to IE, plus buggy.

but there is no tab bar until you open a second tab. I wonder who is the moron who designed that system.

I guess some smartass is going to direct a kick towards your hindquarters for that one, I'll merely point quietly towards the options menu; there's a toggle for just that sort of thing there... I myself prefer no tab bar when I only have one site open, less screenspace taken up by GUI overhead that way.

Why doesn't it have the rewind button?

I wasn't aware the internet required rewinding! What does it do, this rewind button of yours?

Where is the auto-reload feature?

Why do you need that?

Where is the icon that opens me a new, empty tab?

Um, on the nav-bar perhaps? :P

Where is the zoom option?

Why do you need that?

And why doesn't FF save the opened tabs when I close the browser

Good question. I'd like a feature like that as well. Um, at least sometimes I would, heh. Like, if there were two close buttons for the browser, one that saved my open tabs and one that did not. Most of the time I really don't want the browser to start loading up a load of tabs when I start it up and bug the hell out of me until I've managed to get them all closed again, yet every once in a while it would be a neat feature.

I don't know about you but when I use the internet I look at the page's content and not the upper right corner

Just knowing it's there would bug the hell out of me... I hate adware with an intensity that few other things can match, except smokers, and maybe people who sit in their cars they've parked halfway up on a sidewalk and idle their engines for no reason whatsoever. :P

It even has a blocker for flash scripts.

I wouldn't want to block flash altogether, I would however very much enjoy a right-click menu that would kill a particular flash animation...

[L233]

Originally Posted by silence

i open tabs by clicking middle mouse button....or using mouse gestures (press right mouse and slightly pull it up, u can configure mouse gestures as u like).

Clicking the middle mouse button on a link opens the link in a new tab, yes. That's not what I am talking about, though. Open a web page, just one. Then try to open another BLANK tab.

Oh, btw, the "hide the tab bar when only one web site is opened" option doesn't seem to work, unchecking it does nothing. It would kind of solve the problem if ti worked.

This is just one of the smaller of FF's UI annoyances anyway.

[Diplo]

Originally Posted by silence

in my whole internet experience, _ONLY_ banners i ever clicked was by mistake, so i love adblock.

Often you don't have to click a banner/ad to make an impression - simply viewing it does the job.

it removes them and makes _MY_ experience better. and it is also _MY_ clicks that make traffic which sells adds....and _MY_ bandwidth, which _I_ pay (cause of fucked up monopoly here)....

so if _I_ want to save _MY_ money by blocking useless shit i have no problem with that.

So it's all about _YOU_ is it? What about the webmasters who provide the content for the sites you view for free? Who pays for _THEIR_ bandwidth you are using for free and _THEIR_ time and effort? You are expecting all that for free and yet can't even be bothered to waste a few milliseconds of your time to help fund the sites you view? If everybody had the same attitude as you then sites like this, which you are leeching from without giving even a scrap back to, wouldn't exist? Then what would you do with all your precious bandwidth?