[Geo]

January 2005 issue:

We expect to see the next generation GPU cores--NV50 from nVidia and R500 from ATI--sometime in late 2005 or early 2006. Make your purchases accordingly.

[Geo]

OTOH, to argue against my own , would ATI put anything on the table until NV has announced a chip that can beat X850XT PE? Going on last time, it seems that ATI-as-top-dog is not inclined to beat themselves by large margins until forced to do so by the competition. And right now it is very murky when that will be.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by geo

January 2005 issue:

That seems to be all wrong.

R500 is the XBox2 core. R520 (mainly based on R420, maybe with some borrows from R500) will be ATI's next desktop GPU, probably due out mid 2005, I guess. R600 (unified shader architecture) will be ATI's Longhorn GPU. Since Longhorn is expected at the end of 2006, R600 would make sense in that timeframe, too.

NV50 was rumoured to be cancelled. Although nobody seems to know (or tell) with what it was replaced.

[_xxx_]

Note that the companies can shift names the way they will for the outside viewers. While it may be called whatever internally, they can still sell it as R500 or whatever they choose to call it.

[karlotta]

Originally Posted by _xxx_

Note that the companies can shift names the way they will for the outside viewers. While it may be called whatever internally, they can still sell it as R500 or whatever they choose to call it.

well ya, but Maximum and Gamer mags are just stupid heads. Id go with that.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by karlotta

well ya, but Maximum and Gamer mags are just stupid heads. Id go with that.

Occam's Razor shaves again. . .

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by karlotta

well ya, but Maximum and Gamer mags are just stupid heads. Id go with that.

Seconded, their "info" doesn't resemble much of anything I've been hearing.

[MasterBaiter]

Xbit posted up something that actually may coincide with what the rags are saying (could still be off target though, or mis-direction...)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...110034348.html

“In terms of the core discreet desktop graphics (58% of revenue) franchise, NVIDIA will not release a new architecture until the end of 2005. This could allow ATI Technologies a window of superior performance if its gets its R520 products out on time (mid-2005). Overall, we expect little movement in desktop discreet market share in 2005 between NVIDIA and ATI Technologies,� Goldman Sachs’ report claims.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by MasterBaiter

Overall, we expect little movement in desktop discreet market share in 2005 between NVIDIA and ATI Technologies,� Goldman Sachs’ report claims.

I actually agree with that part, but I still think ATi will get the 520 out before mid-2005.

I'll still call it early 2005, I want to be able to buy one for me birthday in April so it must be so. 8)

[Dave Baumann]

Originally Posted by MasterBaiter

Xbit posted up something that actually may coincide with what the rags are saying (could still be off target though, or mis-direction...)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...110034348.html

“In terms of the core discreet desktop graphics (58% of revenue) franchise, NVIDIA will not release a new architecture until the end of 2005. This could allow ATI Technologies a window of superior performance if its gets its R520 products out on time (mid-2005). Overall, we expect little movement in desktop discreet market share in 2005 between NVIDIA and ATI Technologies,� Goldman Sachs’ report claims.

GS now taking their reports from the front page of Beyond3D?

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

GS now taking their reports from the front page of Beyond3D?

Where 3D tech companies are concerned, do you really think that is a dumb move?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by geo

Going on last time, it seems that ATI-as-top-dog is not inclined to beat themselves by large margins until forced to do so by the competition.

They really don't have a significant advantage now. NVIDIA beats them performance-wise on DOOM 3 and several other games, and has Shader Model 3.0 support and more. Futhermore NVIDIA also controls the mid-end market this time. ATI also struggles with availability problems. Conclusion; they can't wait too long but they shouldn't rush things.

[MasterBaiter]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

I actually agree with that part, but I still think ATi will get the 520 out before mid-2005.

I'll still call it early 2005, I want to be able to buy one for me birthday in April so it must be so. 8)

I honestly don't know what to think. I'm just going to expect something like we had last year. Which means no new chipset for the birthday boy in April.

Here's my pessimistic prediction: We'll have a paper-launch in April-May. In June there will be some cards getting kicked around the review sites (these cards will be ultra-platinums which will never see the light of day)... Four months later (because Nvidia & ATI will be tweaking their end-product to compete with each other).... the consumer will see a trickle of product appear in the market (but Dell will have tons of them).

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by Nick

They really don't have a significant advantage now.

They have an OEM advantage going right now.

NVIDIA beats them performance-wise on DOOM 3 and several other games, and has Shader Model 3.0 support and more.

Yup, and ATi beats 'em on a number of games and has 3Dc and better AA....it's a shooting match on the high-end.

Futhermore NVIDIA also controls the mid-end market this time.

Currently, yes....when the X800 XT comes out? We'll see.

ATI also struggles with availability problems.

No argument for high-end parts, but ATi is doing an awful lot of sales to OEMs which makes retail availability spotty at times. (OEMs always get first dibs)

Conclusion; they can't wait too long but they shouldn't rush things.

Huh? I think they should rush things a bit, at least announce and put out an AGP X800 XT....I really think there is a huge market for that they'll lose to the 6800 GT if they don't have a competitive AGP part.

MasterBaiter - Sorry, your plan sounds much more realistic....but since it doesn't involve me getting a new video card for my birthday I simply can't accept it as a possibility.

[karlotta]

x800xt with the bridge......

[digitalwanderer]

Originally Posted by karlotta

x800xt with the bridge......

That'd be fine! But you try and get any ATi employee to commit to any type of availability schedule for it right now. :?

I've been pounding every one I can about an AGP card and I just get very indefinate answers back, I really think they'd rather give up on AGP all together but it just isn't the right time yet! (IMHO)

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Nick

They really don't have a significant advantage now. NVIDIA beats them performance-wise on DOOM 3 and several other games, and has Shader Model 3.0 support and more. Futhermore NVIDIA also controls the mid-end market this time. ATI also struggles with availability problems. Conclusion; they can't wait too long but they shouldn't rush things.

Good points. Also AFR to consider, assuming the new arch is going to enable that (I don't really know that, however). And if they can get out 6 months ahead of NV, then they still can have the refresh up their sleeve to 'top' with as necessary depending on what the NV part looks like.

Of course this could just be me bored out of my skull and convincing myself based on not wanting to wait the better part of a year to have new meat to digest.

[dan2097]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

Currently, yes....when the X800 XT comes out? We'll see.

Do you mean the X800XL? The X800XT is available in quite readily for AGP

EDIT: Actually your probably right even if you were reffering to the X800XT AGP, its not that widely available although if you look around you can find them

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by digitalwanderer

Currently, yes....when the X800 XT comes out? We'll see.

As dan2097 already mentioned, you must have meant the X800 XL. But the XL is imo a hig end card, at least with it's current price. The vanilla X800 is another thing though. The problem there is that it it's not really available yet and the current price is quite a bit higher then the 6600 GT. It's a bit faster also under certain circumstances so the price might be justified but it's currently a rather expensive mid-end card.

[_xxx_]

You mean 6800GT I guess, not 6600GT? X800 pro is _much_ faster than 6600GT.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by _xxx_

You mean 6800GT I guess, not 6600GT? X800 pro is _much_ faster than 6600GT.

I'm talking about the vanilla X800, native 12 pipe, http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/chipcom...ils&id=196, version. Not the X800 Pro. And yes, it'll also be a quite bit faster then the 6600 Gt but at this moment, also a lot more expensive.

[_xxx_]

What you're talking about _is_ called X800pro. It competes with 6800 non-GT and is double as fast as a 6600GT. There is no X800 (without Pro or XT or whatnot behind the number).

[Dave Baumann]

X800 PRO = R420 (and R423), X800 (no suffix's) = R430 (new, cheaper version or R480, based on 110nm process).

ATI recently announced X850 XTPE, X850 XT, X850 PRO based on R480 to address the high end, and X800 XL, X800 based on R430 to sit between the R480 and RV410 based products.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by _xxx_

What you're talking about _is_ called X800pro. It competes with 6800 non-GT and is double as fast as a 6600GT. There is no X800 (without Pro or XT or whatnot behind the number).

Nope, talking about this, link hopefully working this time:

http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/chipcom...ils&id=196

MSRP: 199$

Edit: Dave already answered..

[Mulciber]

yea, but who can blame him for being unable to keep up with the myriad of overlapping and unattainable product names and suffixes ATI is throwing at us these days.