[Mummy]

yah stop talking about D&G :P

[london-boy]

Yeah, and stop talking about MS, i asked 2 questions that got lost in a sea of "MS will diee!!eleven!!1!"...

[nAo]

Please London...asks your question another time..I can't find them

[pahcman]

Good news for everyone!

On the other hand, guess unlike some who keep defending this issue, now is all but confirm Sony admitting their graphics technology aint up to scratch against the best.

At least now, i feel much safer getting good Sony PQ finally!

[Dave Baumann]

Originally Posted by pahcman

On the other hand, guess unlike some who keep defending this issue, now is all but confirm Sony admitting their graphics technology aint up to scratch against the best.

And that Cell isn't the be all and end all of all types of processing...

[Vince]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

And that Cell isn't the be all and end all of all types of processing...

And what happens to these comments if it turns out the IC is, say, Cell-based (eg. >4GHz S|APU front-end) with more advanced versions of nVidia's Pixel Engines (ROPs) in parallel behind them mixed with eDRAM? We'd be back to where we were a year ago in thinking, just with nVidia onboard.

PS. I think that's "Dr", not "Mr" nAo

[nAo]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

And that Cell isn't the be all and end all of all types of processing...

Obviously It's not.
But we're still trying to understand if the GPU will be CELL based anyway or if Sony it's 'just' slapping a NVIDIA GPU in there..
After listening Mr. Hofstee press conference I believe there's more than just a
new GPU to be coupled with the CELL CPU.

ciao,
Marco

[Qroach]

I certainly wasn't expecting this. Sony certianly has a lot of people with their hands in ps3.

[overclocked]

This feel´s unreal..

[loekf2]

Originally Posted by one

Read the release carefully

I think Nividia entered a similar agreement with Sony as ATI did. They do the design, Sony licenses a complete chip and do the fabbing themselves.

What I found interesting (professionally speaking, but scares the hell out of me) is the statement that these "Nividia" ICs will be used in digital consumer products as well (so DVD players, Blueray players, TVs, LCD TVs etc). Appearently this agreement also hints towards a graphics and imaging processor. So... also stuff like picture improvement, deinterlacing, scaling ?

Makes sense if you have this Cell thing in front of it. You need something to the display.

[Dave Baumann]

Originally Posted by Vince

And what happens to these comments if it turns out the IC is, say, Cell-based (eg. >4GHz S|APU front-end) with more advanced versions of nVidia's Pixel Engines (ROPs) in parallel behind them mixed with eDRAM? We'd be back to where we were a year ago in thinking, just with nVidia onboard.

ROP's are the simple bit of the pipeline; if Sony and Toshiba couldn't manage that then they really would be in trouble with their own designs. I'd say that the post referenced earlier wrt shaders is probably on the money at this point.

Originally Posted by nAo

Obviously It's not.
But we're still trying to understand if the GPU will be CELL based anyway or if Sony it's 'just' slapping a NVIDIA GPU in there..
After listening Mr. Hofstee press conference I believe there's more than just a new GPU to be coupled with the CELL CPU.

Given the wording of the press release and NVIDIA's reasons for not going for XB2 (would require large development for not a lot of return) my belief at the moment is that Sony are the ones driving this but NVIDIA are likely giving them specific IP and probably a small core of engineers in order to best integrate the IP into Sony's design requirements.

[Tuttle]

Originally Posted by pahcman

Good news for everyone!

On the other hand, guess unlike some who keep defending this issue, now is all but confirm Sony admitting their graphics technology aint up to scratch against the best.

Well, that is one way to rationalize the announcement.

[Dave Baumann]

Originally Posted by loekf2

I think Nividia entered a similar agreement with Sony as ATI did. They do the design, Sony licenses a complete chip and do the fabbing themselves.

I think this is the more pertinent element of the PR: "Both companies are jointly developing a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating NVIDIA's next-generation GeForce(TM) and SCEI's system solutions"

That, to me, smacks very much of a collaborative venture.

[j^aws]

My two cents,

I don't think there's a CPU or a GPU, they seem to contradict the philisophy of CELL and it's ISA.

CPU + GPU = CELL = Streaming Engine.

8)

[Vince]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

ROP's are the simple bit of the pipeline; if Sony and Toshiba couldn't manage that then they really would be in trouble with their own designs. I'd say that the post referenced earlier wrt shaders is probably on the money at this point.

Well done 'ROP' -like functionality has been a downside for Sony (Toshiba is a seperate story) for sometime: Graphic Synthesizer, to some extent the PSP. I'd assume there are IP challanges beyond the sheer science of it.

And concerning the other poster at GAF and "shaders", I'm curious as I don't know: What exactly can an NV40 or R500/X2 shading ALU do that a S|APU can't? What can 48 shading units do that 32 (or 16) S|APUs clocked around 10 times as high can not do? *Perhaps review the patent on STI's Scalar/SIMD processing units.

I don't see the problems facing Sony based around shading or anything which is more a function of bandwith and computation. Rather, their problems have historically been dealing with the more fixed paradigm of hardwired "features" that existed in, say, the DX7 or even, to a lesser extent, the DX9 class architectures.

EDIT: Attempted to make that more clear.

[Fafalada]

Originally Posted by Dave

ROP's are the simple bit of the pipeline; if Sony and Toshiba couldn't manage that then they really would be in trouble with their own designs. I'd say that the post referenced earlier wrt shaders is probably on the money at this point.

I think Toshiba's was actually one of the competing options, not the internal one Sony worked on. Not that we'll likely ever find out the details of that :P

Given the wording of the press release and NVIDIA's reasons for not going for XB2 (would require large development for not a lot of return) my belief at the moment is that Sony are the ones driving this but NVIDIA are likely giving them specific IP and probably a small core of engineers in order to best integrate the IP into Sony's design requirements.

It sounds likely - although perhaps some kind of cross licensing deal could be involved as well.
But if you're right this wouldn't be just an customization of a future PC part.

[Wunderchu]

as many others have expressed ..... I am shocked as well


... wow , everyone involved really did a good job of keeping it secret ..






ok..... now I am convinced that Xbox 2 stands no chance against PS3 ........... Microsoft had a perceived advantage by having a GPU made by ATI, while the Sony was supposedly designing a GPU in-house....

but now that we know the truth, the NVIDIA GPU virtually equalizes the perceived advntage that Microsoft once had ... ATI GPU will go head to head with NVIDIA GPU .............. and there is absolutely no way that even a tri-core 3.5 GHz POWER CPU will be able to match the performance of CELL ......................

[Alejux]

Wow! What a greatly kept secret! They've been working at it for 2 years!

I imagine that the GPU will look like nothing we've seen so far, since it's being made from the start to take use of the cell architecture. I wonder what will come out of NVidia in regard to the PC market. Such a GPU would seem very incompatible with the PC architecture. But they DID cancel the NV50...so is it possible that the new GeForces will come with a cell chip too?

[london-boy]

o_O

They cancelled the NV50?

My god i had one long weekend....

[Alejux]

Originally Posted by Wunderchu

... wow , everyone involved really did a good job of keeping it secret ..

I keep imagining NVidia/Sony employees entering mysterious phone booths, with retracting floors and slides that go all the way to their developing facility 3 miles under the earth.

[one]

Clients (PS3? Cell PC?) require Visualizer from the beginning of the Cell plan

[PC-Engine]

Maybe they plan on releasing a PS3 board that you can plug into a PCI Express slot?

[loekf2]

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

I think this is the more pertinent element of the PR: "Both companies are jointly developing a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating NVIDIA's next-generation GeForce(TM) and SCEI's system solutions"

That, to me, smacks very much of a collaborative venture.

Sorry, I was just trying to be a bit naive, because I do work for "some company" having an interest in selling ICs for the "digital consumer" market

Sounds like Nvidia also got an position via Sony towards the STB & TV market, where they were lagging behind ATI.

[Alejux]

Originally Posted by PC-Engine

Maybe they plan on releasing a PS3 board that you can plug into a PCI Express slot?

Cool! And with the SLI technology, you would be able to plug 2 PS3! :P

[Spidermate]

Holy Crap!!! This is ugly. I did not see this coming. Sony doesn't seem to be playing around this time. They have partnered with just about everyone to pull this project off. I believe now that this GPU is going to be Cell based.