[one]

Replied

I checked my settings,

Notify on new Private Message: ON

Does it work on non-IE browser? (I use Firefox) Anyway I recommend it to show much bigger notification with some annoying movie/sound effects.

[hey69]

I use Firefox and yes it does.
it even flashes a BIG popup with a pink 'your are Gayzorxx' animation inside when i receive a Pm

[VNZ]

I first thought this would come off as a bit off topic, but hey, this page ain't looking too relevant anyway.
So, I present to you the latest (and probably greatest) artist's impression of the PS3 so far:



Those DS3s don't look too comfy, though...

[McFly]

Originally Posted by VNZ

I present to you the latest

More like the oldest.

Fredi

[archie4oz]

Yay, black Famicom...

[j^aws]

Originally Posted by one

Oh, and concerning nVidia, I remeber they talked about render farm consisted of nVidia GPUs. Now, nVidia has products like Gelato in 'the film production pipeline'. The market Cell WS covers largely overlaps with those GPU vendor vision, so I assume it never happen that nVidia/ATi help Sony when Cell making inroads into their possible hardware markets.

The thing is that the COLLADA spec 1.0 mention the following,

Intended Audience

This document is public and available to anybody. The intended audience is programmers that want to create applications, or plug-ins for applications, that can utilize the COLLADA format.

Readers of this document should have knowledge of XML, XML Schema. The reader needs also be familiar with shading languages such as NVIDIA ® Cg or Pixar RenderMan®. The reader should have a general knowledge and understanding of computer graphics and graphics API such as OpenGL®.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewto...=345366#345366

COLLADA should be a component in the content creation pipeline...both Cg and RenderMan will be in this pipeline for Cell workstations somewhere along the lines. In order for COLLADA and the WS to succed, the above will need to be developed. AFAIK, both Cg and Renderman are open interfaces and perhaps instead of letting the market create these tools at their own paces, there may be a deal by Sony to create momentum with a library of tools created by nVidia and Pixar to promote and push the format?

But nVidia's in the same hardware market? So the question is how would nVidia benefit? Well they could license more software instead of hardware and be more profitable! Just ask Microsoft! :P

The Cell workstation will also be going head on with commodity Linux renderframs and Apple...so theres alot of work still to be done...

[Paul]

Nobody ever said it was impossible.

Forgetting about Deadmeat already?

[AzBat]

Originally Posted by McFly

More like the oldest.

Fredi

I like the chrome toaster version. LOL

Tommy McClain

[BigGamer X]

Way too busy of a design. :? What ARE those things sticking up on the sides?!

[GwymWeepa]

The controllers lol.

[Jov]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

How can you know they if they have shipped anything to developers?

ARMONK, NY and TOKYO, November 29, 2004 – IBM, Sony Corporation (Sony) and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) announced today that they have powered-on the first Cell* processor-based workstation.

Are they lieing and if they are then why?
Shouldn't they hype those machines in the hands of developers?

Switching on the first Cell powered WS is not exactly the same as switching it on for the very first time ever, especially not at press release. It’s methodologically speaking in terms of unveiling, switching it on for 1st time to the rest of the world.

If Sony/IBM can simply switch on a new product for the 1st time and expect it function 100% as expected, then they don't need testing engineers or QA their products! The design engineers will be like god in their specialty. And what's involved in testing?

Common sense people, common sense!

[Fox5]

http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-3.../569218p1.html

The Cell is a multicore chip comprising a 64-bit Power processor core and is optimized for compute-intensive workloads and broadband rich media applications, including computer entertainment, movies and other forms of digital content. The Cell chip will be able to support multiple operating systems at the same time, and will feature a flexible on-chip I/O (input/output) interface.

I thought cell wasn't supposed to be a Power processor?

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by Fox5

http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-3/avalon/569218p1.html

I thought cell wasn't supposed to be a Power processor?

It seems that CELL is just a codename. Microsoft and Nintendo have the same acess to all the work Sony, Toshiba, and IBM have done over the last 5 years with regards to CPU architechture. Microsoft and Nintendo aren't intrested in the scalable aspect of the POWER core, since they just want it for one basic use and they don't fab their own semiconductors like STI.

[one]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

It seems that CELL is just a codename. Microsoft and Nintendo have the same acess to all the work Sony, Toshiba, and IBM have done over the last 5 years with regards to CPU architechture.

Power is a very flexible architecture. Even Pentiums are very different between Pentium M and Pentium 4, how can you assert like that?

A power core in a Cell processor is what is called PU in the patent. It may do general computation in some cases, but its main tasks in a whole processor are software-driven traffic control of Software Cell flow (and maintaining threads), partitioning of simultaneously running OS, etc. This structure is patented by Cell partners and obviously Microsoft and Nintendo can't have access to it.

[Jov]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

It seems that CELL is just a codename. Microsoft and Nintendo have the same acess to all the work Sony, Toshiba, and IBM have done over the last 5 years with regards to CPU architechture. Microsoft and Nintendo aren't intrested in the scalable aspect of the POWER core, since they just want it for one basic use and they don't fab their own semiconductors like STI.

Are we sure about this? Sure the press indicated Open Architecture (e.g Sparc), but I am sure all these years of investment won't be carried out to allow others a free ride.

As for the Power processor, are we also sure this is same as the architecture behind the PowerPC where MS and Nintendo seems to be going with?

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by one

Power is a very flexible architecture. Even Pentiums are very different between Pentium M and Pentium 4, how can you assert like that?

A power core in a Cell processor is what is called PU in the patent. It may do general computation in some cases, but its main tasks in a whole processor are software-driven traffic control of Software Cell flow (and maintaining threads), partitioning of simultaneously running OS, etc. This structure is patented by Cell partners and obviously Microsoft and Nintendo can't have access to it.

I just can't see IBM cutting that type of deal.

Why would Sony go exclusive with Sony and Toshiba? They already had Nintendo from the Gamecube deal. They just wanted to expand and they got all 3 major console players.

I find it almost impossible to belive that IBM would surrender the rights to use and sell IP they have developed over the course of decades, and all the electronic engineering talent they have nurtured over the course of decades just to sign some exclusive deal with Sony and Toshiba.

Since IBM was already working with Nintendo prior to the CELL deal, I'm sure this was cleary on the minds of Sony and IBM. How can IBM make money from CELL unless they can sell it to others like Nintendo and Microsoft? That's a lot of potencial income to give up and have clearly stated the embedded market is the future. Consoles are considered embedded devices and both Nintendo and Microsoft are very wealthy companies.


IBM is hardly getting a "free ride". They plow a lot of money into R&D every year.

Just too add a guess. I don't think the core is a PowerPC core. It's something new. It's a clean sheet design but the roots go back to all the work on previous POWER architechtures, like PowerPC. When I read POWER clearly spelled out on the latest press releases, to me it if falls under the POWER umbrella and IBM can do whatever they want with it. This new Power core will end up in all 3 consoles I feel.

[MfA]

A time limited non competition clause would hardly be the end of the world.

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by MfA

A time limited non competition clause would hardly be the end of the world.

Thats the same thing as an exclusive contract for 5 years or a console life cycle. Obviously as you know the console platform is fixed, so a CPU can't be changed after a console has been launched.

The Rambus interface is a problem though for MS to use the technology.

The Power CPU, DMA engine and streaming processors all reside on a very fast local bus. And each processing element is connected to its neighbors in the cell by high-speed "highways." Designed by Rambus Inc. with a team from Stanford University, these highways — or parallel bundles of serial I/O links — operate at 6.4 GHz per link. One of the ISSCC papers describes the link characteristics, as well as the difficulties of developing high-speed analog transceiver circuits in SOI technology.

MS haven't cut any deals with Rambus that I know of.



Alos intresting is that Toshiba has announced support for the Rambus DDR2 interface. So they won't be using XDR exclusivley.

Toshiba Corporation has selected its DDR2 interface cells for next-generation high-volume consumer applications.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041020/205314_1.html

So Toshiba CELL based products might use DDR instead of XDR?

Also an intresting side note to the "CELL saga", John Kelly seems to have gotten demoted at IBM.

SAN JOSE, Calif. — John Kelly III, senior vice president of technology within IBM Corp.'s Systems and Technology Group, has been quietly shifted to a new role as part of a major reorganization of IBM's chip operations.

Kelly had been responsible for IBM's Microelectronics Group and its Engineering & Technology services unit. Prior to assuming that role in August 2000, he was general manager of IBM's Microelectronics Group, the semiconductor arm of the company.

An IBM spokesman confirmed on Tuesday (Oct. 12) that Kelly has taken a new role within IBM, but did not elaborate on the new position. "There have been some changes," the spokesman said. "[Kelly] has taken a different role."

http://www.eet.com/semi/news/showArt...cleId=49901010

[one]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

I find it almost impossible to belive that IBM would surrender the rights to use and sell IP they have developed over the course of decades, and all the electronic engineering talent they have nurtured over the course of decades just to sign some exclusive deal with Sony and Toshiba.

*cough* MIPS *cough*

Originally Posted by Brimstone

Since IBM was already working with Nintendo prior to the CELL deal, I'm sure this was cleary on the minds of Sony and IBM. How can IBM make money from CELL unless they can sell it to others like Nintendo and Microsoft?

Because Sony is the market leader. Besides, Cell workstation can be IBM's own selling item. Moreover, you can sell a Cell-powered network router, in the market where companies such as Intel is now joining in. Do you think what MS or Nintendo ordered IBM to make had as vast market as Cell will potentially have? Hell no. STI has even its own lab. You know, IBM is a very bureaucratic company and there is much more inner politics than you expect in the company.

[McFly]

Cell will defenitly not end in Xenon and Revolution, that's just wishful thinking from MS or Nintendo fanboys. The only way cell could end in Revolution is if Nintendo goes software only and Revolution is just a Nintendo branded PS3.

Fredi

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by McFly

Cell will defenitly not end in Xenon and Revolution, that's just wishful thinking from MS or Nintendo fanboys. The only way cell could end in Revolution is if Nintendo goes software only and Revolution is just a Nintendo branded PS3.

Fredi

The way I understand it, CELL is just a code name, not a technology IP.

[one]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

The way I understand it, CELL is just a code name, not a technology IP.

Why do you ignore those pile of patents about PE/PU/APU/.../...?

[PC-Engine]

*cough* MIPS *cough*

Anyone can license the MIPS ISA....

Originally Posted by McFly

Cell will defenitly not end in Xenon and Revolution, that's just wishful thinking from MS or Nintendo fanboys. The only way cell could end in Revolution is if Nintendo goes software only and Revolution is just a Nintendo branded PS3.

Fredi

It's ok man, no need to panic, however, just because Revolution may get a CELL like cpu from IBM doesn't mean it's just a different branded PS3. Let me know when ATI is doing the GPU in PS3.

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by one

Why do you ignore those pile of patents about PE/PU/APU/.../...?

"CELL", "GEKKO", or whatever you want to call an indivudual chip, what matters is the technology is based off of the POWER family tree of technology. To me it seems many different levels to the STI realationship exist. They all have their own agenda's.

IBM and Sony are into the workstation market not Toshiba.

Toshiba didn't bother licensing certain chip making technology like SOI from IBM but Sony did.

While both Sony and Toshiba have licensed Rambus the next gen XDR Rambus interface, Toshiba seems keen on DDR2 ram while Sony likes XDR ram.

[McFly]

Cell originates from Blue Gene development four years ago and yes, Power technology is part of the Cell design, but it's only a small part of the whole thing, the biggest part of the design is completly different of what the rest of Power technology is. Cell shares much more similarities with Blue Gene then with Power. From my understanding you could even replace the Power part of Cell with something else that does the same task and it would still be Cell.

Fredi