[Megadrive1988]

As many of you know, in 1987-1989, Atari was rumored to be working on a 16-Bit console. this is not the Atari Panther project of the early 1990s mind you. this rumored 16-Bit console was said to be based on the Atari ST (unlike the Panther).

now I find on the web, this Atari Mirai console, which sounds like the rumored ST based 16-Bit console. but then it gets more interesting. apparently, Mirai has a massive cartridge slot which could easily take a NEO GEO cartridge without a problem.

here's the most interesting stuff on the web I could find on MIRAI and its possible (but unlikey) connection to SNK

http://www.atari7800.com/html/documents_articles_10.htm

8.) SNK, (Shin Nihon Kiaku Corporation) which is best known for their Neo Geo line of arcade and home gaming products, was based just yards across the street from Atari Corporation in Sunnyvale, California. On many occasions during the early 1990's SNK and Atari had worked together on a few interesting undisclosed projects. It is believed that the mysterious Atari MIRAI mockup game system was the ultimate product of this union, possibly being the "Neo Geo for the masses" while being marketed under the more familiar Atari brand name. The MIRAI featured XEGS-like styling and a massive cartridge port which could easily swallow a Neo-Geo sized cartridge.

http://www.atarihq.com/museum/miscatari/mirai.html

This one has all of us perplexed. Judging by its XE Game System-like design and liberal use of pastel colors, we reckon that Mirai was a mock-up of a proposed late 80's game console. That's about the extent of it. If it weren't for the faceplate with "Mirai" written on it, we wouldn't have a clue of anything about this thing.
At first, we thought that it might be an early mock-up for a game machine based on the ST line of 16 and 32-bit Atari computers. Upon further inspection, however, we noticed the massive size of the cartridge slot... it's HUGE! Then we began to wonder if it wasn't something that Atari and SNK were discussing behind the scenes -- an Atari version of the Neo Geo, perhaps? Well, the Mirai's cartridge port would effortlessly swallow an already-hulking Neo Geo cartridge and spit it out for lunch. What about the unreleased Panther machine? The color and design scheme doesn't fit the time frame in which Panther was being developed (early 1990's). We're going to stop splitting our hairs over this one, and let you guys theorize on what this darned thing is. The only other thing worth noting is that Mirai means "future" in Japanese. Thankfully, the future as the Atari Mirai saw it was never realized.

I think it is more likely that MIRAI was an ST based system, and not compatible with the Neo Geo. but still, that's an interesting thing to think about. a NEO GEO for the masses....

[Lazy8s]

It's interesting speculation. The two companies didn't have enough influence individually, but they might've actually made for a legitimate player back then - since the timeframe was still early enough in the 16-bit generation - had they combined operations.

[j^aws]

It would be nice for a fourth player to enter the console market with a Neo-Geo class console for the hardcore market. Totally over the top specs, cartridge sizes and prices etc. to blow away the crop of next gen mainstream consoles! 8)

[archie4oz]

Why? So they can immediately go out of business shortly after?

[j^aws]

Originally Posted by archie4oz

Why? So they can immediately go out of business shortly after?

I'd like a current arcade manufacturer to do that to showcase what the arcade should be about, designing and showcasing state of the art games and technology that home consoles can only dream to aspire to! The hardcore market could sustain it possibly. Would make a good second console.! 8) The Neo-Geo was a legend but I couldn't afford as I wasn't in employment. However, there are more hardcore gamers now with a bigger disposable income!

[Reznor007]

Originally Posted by Jaws

I'd like a current arcade manufacturer to do that to showcase what the arcade should be about, designing and showcasing state of the art games and technology that home consoles can only dream to aspire to! The hardcore market could sustain it possibly. Would make a good second console.! 8) The Neo-Geo was a legend but I couldn't afford as I wasn't in employment. However, there are more hardcore gamers now with a bigger disposable income!

To be honest, Neogeo wasn't exactly state of the art. It was basically a Genesis/Megadrive on steroids. SNES had better video hardware(true transparencies, rotation, etc), and better sound hardware(32KHz digital stereo). Neogeo had HUGE ROM carts and a fast main CPU, that's it. The absolute biggest SNES game I've heard of was 48Mbit(6MB), while most of the NeoGeo games from 2000+ have 64MB(yes, MB) of graphics ROM's alone. If you crammed close to 100MB of data into a SNES cart it could do the same with better effects.

[Megadrive1988]

overall, I feel the NeoGeo was better hardware than SNES, MHO

380 sprites vs 128

4096 colors on-screen vs 256

sprite scaling vs background scaling

fast 12.5 CPU (which matters) vs slow as mud 3.58 Mhz CPU


on SNES side is hardware rotation, transparency and some other effects

if SNES had that 10 Mhz 68000 it would have been far better than it was, and closer to NeoGeo.

I'll take NeoGeo extra sprites, colors and CPU speed of NeoGeo over SNES few extra hardware effects/features.

also, alot of the Super Famicom's scaling/rotation math hardware that was going to have as of 1989, was removed. games like Pilotwings needed a DSP to get those effects back that were going to be put into the console. I would say that Super Famicom's original specs, with the full scaling/rotation/zooming/effects that were promised in 1989, plus the fast CPU, would have made it better than NeoGeo in some ways. the only way to make the Super Famicom do what it was originally supposed to do is put in extra processors in the game carts.


related:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...;output=gplain

The first batch of games for the Super Famicom were developed around
1988 and 1989. Popular Super Famicom titles, like F-Zero and Super
Mario World, were the most difficult for several reasons--if nothing
else, the Super Famicom hardware specifications changed in small ways
at least twice during the development project, requiring changes to
existing code. (Trivia tidbit: the original Super Famicom plans called
for much more extensive onboard 3D hardware--PilotWings was developed
assuming that this hardware would be present, and since this chip was
scrapped from the Super Famicom at the last minute, Nintendo was forced
to include this 3D chip on the PilotWings board in order to keep the
game on schedule.)

[Reznor007]

The Neogeo 68K was only 12MHz, not 12.5.

I still feel that SNES could do just as good as Neogeo if you gave it the raw storage space. Just look at how good the Donkey Kong Country games look with only 4MB.

Technically you can get SNES to show more colors on screen than Neogeo, I've seen a demo of someone doing it. You can use the background scaling on SNES for characters though, Super Mario World and Super Metroid both use it for bosses. And Neogeo slows down just as bad as SNES when it comes to lots of things on screen, just look at the Metal Slug series.

I still like Neogeo though, I even have an MVS unit, but I think SNES was better.

[Farid]

I don't know what kind of help SNK could give to Atari about this Mirai, but giving the Atari's designers one course or two about "classy design", would had been a good thing for a starter.





Bad!



Good!


Seriously, back in the days, the design of the Neo Geo alone deserved its nickname of "Roll Royce of the consoles".
The controller was also a dream for any videogames fans out there.

[Megadrive1988]

I love SNK's industrial style design or whatever you'd call it. NeoGeo was and is God's gift to console gaming. I just wish we could get another one.

too bad the SNK Millenium 128-Bit NeoGeo never came out. the thing seemed to be high spec, though I don't know if the reported spec is true or bogus.

http://www.vr-zone.com/Home/news48/news48.htm

SNKs next generation Neo Geo console, the SNK Millennium looks like will be powered by a Matrox 3D graphics chip pumping out 450 million polygons and 30.2 GigaPixels per second. Neo Geo mailing list revealed :

SNK MILLENIUM
CPU INTEL PENTIUM LOGIC INOVATION IV TO 900 MHZ
Graphic card 3D MATROX CHIPSET GPUN (G800?)
Polygons 450 million Polygons per second
Textures 30.2 GigaPixels per second? damn high!
Memory 128 Mb to 300 Mhz
Speed DVD and CD DVD TO 6X AND CD AT 32X
Sound Stereo with 128 channels
S.O. Microsoft C.E. or SNK Control Panel
Modem 128 Bps.
Matrox G800 Rumour Details :
Pin compatible with G450
Double fillrate of G450 (450 million polygon/s?)
Support for 250MHz DDR FCRAM
Support for Hardware T&L
Support for DirectX 8.0 Shader and fully functional DX7
New DX7, 8 IDC drivers
Mass production : Sept. 2000.
Dual G800

I think 450 million polygons and 30+ gigapixels is a little bit impossible for year 2000 hardware. maybe these are typos. like one decmil placement off though i think that the SNK Millenium was in fact developed to some extent. it's likely given that SNK *did* actually produce a NeoGeo machine beyond the MVS/AES, the arcade-only Hyper NeoGeo 64.

[Cryect]

Originally Posted by Vysez

I don't know what kind of help SNK could give to Atari about this Mirai, but giving the Atari's designers one course or two about "classy design", would had been a good thing for a starter.

Come on! Those pastel buttons rule (I hope they just have bleached with age and weren't really pastel :P)

[PC-Engine]

The Mirai would be a hot seller for Japanese women...

[Sonic]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember the Donkey Konh games on SNES using the FX chip developed for Starfox or some variant of it? Am I correct or does my memory allude me?

[Farid]

Originally Posted by Sonic

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember the Donkey Konh games on SNES using the FX chip developed for Starfox or some variant of it? Am I correct or does my memory allude me?

It's Donkey Kong Country 2 that used the Super FX chip to help the poor Snes CPU handling the "mist" effect present in some levels.

[Guden Oden]

DKC2 did not have fx assistance.

[Farid]

http://arwing.host.sk/starfox/superfx.htm

Personaly, I've read at darkwatcher (which is only a sum of the above link (with respect to Super FX)).

[Reznor007]

DKC2 does not use any extra chip. None of the DKC series does actually.

[darkblu]

Megadrive1988,

'bogus' would be an understatement for the above neogeo 128 "specs", (the g800 part in particular); 'delusional' depicts those better.

[Megadrive1988]

spec wise, yeah, i agree. but the system itself was probably real, with vastly different spec.

[Guden Oden]

Originally Posted by Vysez

Personaly, I've read at darkwatcher(which is only a sum of the above link (with respect to Super FX)).

There's still no SFX chip in DKC2. Screw open the cart and look for yourself.

It'd be a waste to stick one in there just for the fog. Besides, the only game I know of that uses SFX(2) for 2D stuff exclusively is Yoshi's Island (it uses SFX2, which contrary to the Darkwatcher link is NOT two separate chips, it's just one chip, probably the SAME chip, clocked faster than the original SFX).

YI and Doom used SFX2. Stunt Race FX may have used it too, but it was damn slow anyway, to the point of being unplayable at times even.

[Vadi]

Stunt Race FX had the SuperFX chip. (Super Mario Kart had it aswell, for copy protection.)

edit:
I heard that Super Mario Kart had th SuperFX but that's wrong.

[Reznor007]

Originally Posted by Vadi

Stunt Race FX had the SuperFX chip. (Super Mario Kart had it aswell, for copy protection.)

edit:
I heard that Super Mario Kart had th SuperFX but that's wrong.

Super Mario Kart had DSP-1. DSP1,2,3, and 4 were all actually the same chip just with different internal ROM.

[Reznor007]

Originally Posted by Guden Oden

There's still no SFX chip in DKC2. Screw open the cart and look for yourself.

It'd be a waste to stick one in there just for the fog. Besides, the only game I know of that uses SFX(2) for 2D stuff exclusively is Yoshi's Island (it uses SFX2, which contrary to the Darkwatcher link is NOT two separate chips, it's just one chip, probably the SAME chip, clocked faster than the original SFX).

YI and Doom used SFX2. Stunt Race FX may have used it too, but it was damn slow anyway, to the point of being unplayable at times even.

I think Stunt Race FX was still FX1. SuperFX is the same chip as the SNES main CPU (65C816) just a higher clock. SuperFX2 is double the clock of FX1(IIRC).

If you load the games in the newest versions of ZSNES it tells you what special chips the cart has, but it doesn't differentiate FX1/2.

[Blazkowicz]

no, super FX isn't a 65816, it's a custom RISC CPU. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperFX

as for donkey kong country I thought there was a chip for real time decompression of graphics?

[scificube]

I've nothing to offer but this is the most original discussion in ages. I love it!