[Nite_Hawk]

Hi Guys,

So I'm thinking about upgrading my system a bit, and I'm trying to decide if I would be better of spending ~$200 to get a mobile athlon/MB and overclocking it up to 2400MHz, or spending ~$300 and getting a 2800+ athlon 64. It sounds like they should be pretty comparable in terms of performance given that the A64 would only be running at 1.8GHz and it's tough to overclock them much (Maybe a 20MHz fsb increase with decent ram).

I'd preferably like to hold out for PCI Express and the 939 chips/boards, but it's going to be a long time before they get down into my price range. Right now I think I'm leaning toward the Mobile XP so that I have an extra $100 to save toward getting a PCI express system in a year or two. What do you guys think?

Btw, I'm coming from a 1700+ Athlon XP on a k7s5a, and have a 9700pro card I'd be moving to the new system.

Nite_Hawk

[ZoinKs!]

Imho, you won't go wrong either way. I don't have any experience with A64's, but I can promise you'll notice a huge difference with a mobile xp at 2.4 ghz. I went from an xp 2100+, kr7a-133, and 768 megs of pc2100 to what I have in my sig. The 64's were out of my price range and the mobiles are good enough for one last round of 32 bit.

To get the full potential, you'll want fast memory, which boosts the cost. But that's true for either option.

[jvd]

You can get the mobile and a nforce2 mobo for about 150$ if u look. the 2800s are still rare to get clocked high. the 3000+ new cores are hitting 2.5 ghz which would be like a 3700-3800 depending on how u clock your ram.

IT would be faster than the 2.5 mobile the mobile 2.5 would be like a 3400+ athlon 64 (with no 64bitness)

[Tahir2]

IT would be faster than the 2.5 mobile the mobile 2.5 would be like a 3400+ athlon 64 (with no 64bitness)

I dont think it would in all situations.. the memory controller on die is hard to beat (even P4's at 3.6 GHz have a hard time beating them).

I would go for the A64 system.. new platform plenty of life. AXP is end of line!

[Dr. Ffreeze]

Nite_Hawk,

I am kind of in the same boat. I am looking for a new CPU/mobo combo, would love PCI-E and x86-64 but the Athlon XP 2400+ Mobile looks very tempting. If I go cheap, I would get a Biostar NForce M7NCD ($50) or maybe an inexpensive Albitron and the Athlon XP 2400+ ($74). I think I could hit 2.5GHz and it would be a good jump from my Athlon 1900+. The only thing I don't like is no Serial ATA because I think I will keep that mobo around a long time in my wife's system after I upgrade again (her 1.4 GHz Celeron on a BX board is getting a bit long in the tooth). =)

The right time to buy x86-64 might be mid 2005 for mature Athlon 64 chipsets, mature WinXP 64 drivers, mature PCI-E video cards, and maybe even dual core Athlon 64s (prob too expensive, but in the very least it would push the price down of single core 64s).

Just a thought,
Dr. Ffreeze

PS. I was also worried that in some apps, that the 1.8 GHz Athlon 64 would just be a bit too slow. (in simpler tasks where the IPC heads towards 1)

[Tahir2]

Originally Posted by Dr. Ffreeze

...

PS. I was also worried that in some apps, that the 1.8 GHz Athlon 64 would just be a bit too slow. (in simpler tasks where the IPC heads towards 1)

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTI0LDQ=

You need not worry. If clockspeed was the only thing that mattered then Intel would have won the performance race a long time ago. IPC of the A64 is higher than AXP - more IPC in some applications and less in others.

Have a look at the above article to see the kind of performance a 2GHz A64 can acheive vs the P4 and try to extrapolate that to this article:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDI2LDM=

It's not quite apples to apples but there are some other articles to look at for example CPU scaling using the latest and greatest videocards here:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMy

There was another article at www.firingsquad.com as well but for the life of me I cant find it :?

[Nite_Hawk]

It's a pretty tough decision. :?

On one hand, I'd love to have the A64. It's a great chip, and I wouldn't need to do any overclocking to get good performance out of it. On the other hand though, a mobile xp while requiring overclocking, could probably bring me to the same speed as a A64 and costs less, which means I'd have more money to spend on an A64 once PCI express is established and the move to socket 939 is complete.

In terms of performance, I'm guessing a 2.4-2.6GHz athlon XP on a 200MHz FSB should be atleast equivelant most of the time to a 1.8GHz A64. Overclocking the A64 would mean I'd have to get ram that can significantly overclock past 200MHz, and I'd be happier just leaving the FSB at 200MHz and having low CAS latency.

If I can find a really good deal on the Athlon64 I guess I'll go that route (MB + Proc for $200), though otherwise I think I'll go for the mobile.

Nite_Hawk

[ZoinKs!]

Originally Posted by Dr. Ffreeze

I think I could hit 2.5GHz and it would be a good jump from my Athlon 1900+.

Based on what I've been hearing lately, 2.5 ghz from a 2400+ is far from guaranteed... if it can reach that speed, it'll be with some heavy overvoltage. YMMV

[Nite_Hawk]

Originally Posted by ZoinKs!

Based on what I've been hearing lately, 2.5 ghz from a 2400+ is far from guaranteed... if it can reach that speed, it'll be with some heavy overvoltage. YMMV

It sounded like 2.4GHz is pretty obtainable at close to stock desktop barton levels though?

Nite_Hawk

[martrox]

I've got 2 - mobile XP 2400+...and neither will come close to 2.4. One runs 2.2, the other runs 2.0. If you have expectations of 2.4...well, I wish you the best......or just spend the extra $ 0n the 2600+.... and still don't expect it, just hope for the best!

[Miksu]

I was almost in the same situation couple weeks ago when my motherboard died. Had to choose between a new mb for my old XP Mobile or mb+a64-processor. In the end I opted for a new motherboard for my XP. Main reason was that socket 939 isn't here just yet and imho it would be pointless to buy older motherboard because it would mean that next time you change your processor, you have to buy a new mb too.

[london-boy]

My A64 3200 is a pretty damn fine piece of silicon don't think i'll upgrade for a loooong time. Thank god.

[Dr. Ffreeze]

All,

I have a Abit NF7-S here in the shop with a Athlon XP Mobile 2600+ with a Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu heatsink. I got it to 2.6 ~ 2.7 with almost no effort. I did have to remove the cpu bulk caps and solder them back on under the board so the heatsink would fit, but it is on an platform so that really isn't a big deal. I really like how quiet the heatsink/fan is.

Dr. Ffreeze

[The549]

I got an sis chipset mobo with a xp2600 for $135.
The cpu had a gash in one corner and I had to bend the pins to get it into me mobo, but I can run it with the stock hsf at 2.4ghz.
I need new ram tho....2.4ghz is only obtainable with different ram/cpu speeds.

[Nite_Hawk]

Still trying to make a decision on this. :?

Matrox:

If you don't mind, what motherboard, vcore voltages, ram, fsb, and memory are you using? What kind of cooling are those cpus running with? Also, what kind of amperage do you have on your 12v line? Do you seem to have stable voltage?

gah, this is a hard decision.. The A64 has a nice integrated memory controller, though has a locked fsb. Could still overclock some, but costs more. With the XP I get a nicer motherboard with integrated soundstorm and firewire at a somewhat cheaper price. I also have the chance of a system that would be faster than the 2800+. Still, with the overclocked XP system I'd probably have to buy a better heatsink which would negate some of those cost savings. I could duct a cheaper heatsink though, which would probably give me most of the cooling I would need...

ugh...

Nite_Hawk

[martrox]

ATM, I'm using a Shuttle AN35 Ultra with 1 gig(2X512) Twinmoss(Windbond CH-5) PC3200, and an Albatron KX18D ProII with 1 gig Buffalo (same windbond CH-5 chips). Both systems use Thermalright SLK900A (use 92mm fan) HS. I have no problems with temps, and all my volatges are stable.(12V amperage is 25. I run the memory at optimal settings(200fsb, Cas 2.5, 3,3,7) . Vcore has been tried (on both) from 1.45 to 1.85 volts. The processors have been exchanged for each other, and the O/C seems to be same per chip - MB independant. I run the Memory 2.7 volts(CH-5 is not very voltage friendly) I run one at 10X200, the other at 11X200. ATM I'm running the former at 1.525Vcore, the latter at 1.625 Vcore.

[Nite_Hawk]

Originally Posted by martrox

ATM, I'm using a Shuttle AN35 Ultra with 1 gig(2X512) Twinmoss(Windbond CH-5) PC3200, and an Albatron KX18D ProII with 1 gig Buffalo (same windbond CH-5 chips). Both systems use Thermalright SLK900A (use 92mm fan) HS. I have no problems with temps, and all my volatges are stable.(12V amperage is 25. I run the memory at optimal settings(200fsb, Cas 2.5, 3,3,7) . Vcore has been tried (on both) from 1.45 to 1.85 volts. The processors have been exchanged for each other, and the O/C seems to be same per chip - MB independant. I run the Memory 2.7 volts(CH-5 is not very voltage friendly) I run one at 10X200, the other at 11X200. ATM I'm running the former at 1.525Vcore, the latter at 1.625 Vcore.

Have you tried playing around with alternate overclocking bioses at all? What does the speed seem like at 10x200 and 11x200 compared to the A64? Oh, were those 45w mobiles or 35w?

Thanks for answering so many questions!

Nite_Hawk

[{Sniping}Waste]

Here is a referb Gigabyte GA-K8VT800 A64 mobo for $59 from newegg.
Its not the high end overclocker but a good stable mobo and should be able to hit a HTT of 230.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...6R&DEPA=99

another referb from newegg, A64 3000+ retail for $199
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...type=Refurbish

[martrox]

Haven't played with any o/c bios, and the chips are 45 watt. Speed wise, the 2200 runs just a smigon slower that my P4 2.6 @3.4. But my next machine will be a 64........ Have a friend thats running a stock 3200 a64 and it kicks butt.......

[Nite_Hawk]

Originally Posted by {Sniping}Waste

Here is a referb Gigabyte GA-K8VT800 A64 mobo for $59 from newegg.
Its not the high end overclocker but a good stable mobo and should be able to hit a HTT of 230.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...6R&DEPA=99

another referb from newegg, A64 3000+ retail for $199
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...type=Refurbish

Yeah, I was looking at the refurb stuff. It's not really that much cheaper than new though. refurb A64 for $199 vs oem (non-refurb) for $211 isn't that much of a savings. :?

Even with the refurb parts though, it'd still be like $260 compared to about $140-170 for a new xp setup...

Nite_Hawk